Why has India traditionally adopted a defensive policy on Pakistan?

[Indus Pakistan]

Last night I was going through a long history of military conflicts between India and Pakistan. Surprisingly enough, in most conflicts I found India merely defending attacks on its territory from Pakistan:

• In 1947, Indian armed forces were airlifted to Kashmiri capital of Srinagar for defense against Pakistani tribal militants. They were not allowed to land unless Pakistanis hadn't reached the capital first; an outcome of a typical defensive policy.
• In 1965, when Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K during Operation Gibraltar, India chickened out again. Instead of retaliating at Pakistani weak points such as East Pakistan, it opened another war front in Punjab which pakistanis defended vigorously.
• In 1971, India lost its chance to resolve Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, despite gaining total victory in East Pakistan. With Instrument of Surrender, India could have demanded Pakistan-controlled Kashmir in exchange of some 90,000 Pakistani POWs.
• In 1984, we see India for the first time going offensive and taking Siachen Glacier from Pakistan during Operation Meghdoot. The cost of maintaining military presence at such high-altitudes have drained budgets for both nations, yet it has no dispute solving significance for either country.
• In 1999, Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K again to regain its losses from India's Operation Meghdoot. The invaders were driven out and India did nothing to grab further territory from Pakistan. This conflict ended in a stalemate, giving birth to Pakistani wars of attrition against India.
• Since then, there has been two major standoffs in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan. In both cases, India effectively chickened out after mobilizing its armed forces near the Pakistani borders. These standoffs have cost India billions of dollars, yet they have no conflict resolving effect on Pakistan.

So my question for Indian members of PDF is as simple as this:

• What the heck is wrong with you people? When will you stop behaving like our Palestinian brothers who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity?
• When will you grow up and act responsibly towards solving the Kashmir dispute by either hook or crook, thus ushering an era of peace and prosperity in the region? Having two nuclear armed states involved in proxy warfare against each other is not exactly solving anything.

Because as we all know Indians are more peace loving .......

Oil and gas are not everything ; India also has only two natural resources Iron ore and coal

The bigger point is what are you spending your existing resources on

You have human resources but they are not getting used
up properly and hence there is this growing extremism

The financial resources get used up in defence expenditure

To QUOTE Hillary Clinton ( She might be the next MAN in White House )

"If there were peace between Pakistan and India, and the outstanding issues were resolved, Pakistan would take off like a rocket in terms of economic development.

Read more: Hillary Clinton vows US will stand by Pakistan

All we need now is let Washington and New Delhi decide what is good for us. Hell why not let New Delhi run Pakistan and then we could go to Mars ...

We could enjoy like the 200 million Dalit's in India who are partying everyday ....

 

[Spectre]

We could enjoy like the 200 million Dalit's in India who are partying everyday ....

I have observed that you are always a sensible poster so I request you to maintain the quality of your posts.

I am a Dalit in India and I am undoubtedly better qualified to say how we are doing in India. We are not at the top of demographic profile in terms of prosperity but that's because we had ages of persecution during and before British Raj. We have significantly moved up in terms of income and prosperity and other social indicators. It's a crime in India for which you are jailed if you abuse or discriminate dalits.

That is not to say everything is hunky dory. Time and again you will hear cases of oppression but that is an exception highlighted by media and not the norm.

My grand-father was a daily wage worker, my father a clerk in a bank and I am a finance professional. My personal anecdotal evidence should give you an idea that if you work hard then anything is possible in India. Unfortunately many people from my community don't believe in working but free handouts.

They spin tales of oppression more often then not to get Govt compensation and relief which is highlighted. Politicians from our own community like Mayawati like to keep us poor and uneducated so that we remain a vote bank.

Please remove your hatred filled lenses through which you view India.

 

[my2cents]

Last night I was going through a long history of military conflicts between India and Pakistan. Surprisingly enough, in most conflicts I found India merely defending attacks on its territory from Pakistan:

• In 1947, Indian armed forces were airlifted to Kashmiri capital of Srinagar for defense against Pakistani tribal militants. They were not allowed to land unless Pakistanis hadn't reached the capital first; an outcome of a typical defensive policy.
• In 1965, when Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K during Operation Gibraltar, India chickened out again. Instead of retaliating at Pakistani weak points such as East Pakistan, it opened another war front in Punjab which pakistanis defended vigorously.
• In 1971, India lost its chance to resolve Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, despite gaining total victory in East Pakistan. With Instrument of Surrender, India could have demanded Pakistan-controlled Kashmir in exchange of some 90,000 Pakistani POWs.
• In 1984, we see India for the first time going offensive and taking Siachen Glacier from Pakistan during Operation Meghdoot. The cost of maintaining military presence at such high-altitudes have drained budgets for both nations, yet it has no dispute solving significance for either country.
• In 1999, Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K again to regain its losses from India's Operation Meghdoot. The invaders were driven out and India did nothing to grab further territory from Pakistan. This conflict ended in a stalemate, giving birth to Pakistani wars of attrition against India.
• Since then, there has been two major standoffs in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan. In both cases, India effectively chickened out after mobilizing its armed forces near the Pakistani borders. These standoffs have cost India billions of dollars, yet they have no conflict resolving effect on Pakistan.

So my question for Indian members of PDF is as simple as this:

• What the heck is wrong with you people? When will you stop behaving like our Palestinian brothers who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity?
• When will you grow up and act responsibly towards solving the Kashmir dispute by either hook or crook, thus ushering an era of peace and prosperity in the region? Having two nuclear armed states involved in proxy warfare against each other is not exactly solving anything.

It suits some hawks on both sides to keep the status quo, without which they cannot whip up emotions.

simple answer to both your questions is at that time we were not strong enof and had idots like nehru and his socialist freaks in power and pakistan had backing of entire west while we were in cucoon of NAM but now since cold war is over and so are its hangovers and indfian position is changing but dor pakistan its gonna be no free lunches anymore and western support is gone and things will never be the same again sure we lost opportunities in 1948,1965 &1971 but its now 2015 and have a agressive PMO & NSA so dont worry too much .... past is past you cant change it nor can you waste time on what and how things went wrong in past you have to moove on by taking lessons from past mistakes + work for present and invest for a better future

You and your long winding sentences are just annoying.

Why don't you use common sense to put full stops and comas? Is it that difficult???

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I have observed that you are always a sensible poster so I request you to maintain the quality of your posts.

I am a Dalit in India and I am undoubtedly better qualified to say how we are doing in India. We are not at the top of demographic profile in terms of prosperity but that's because we had ages of persecution during and before British Raj. We have significantly moved up in terms of income and prosperity and other social indicators. It's a crime in India for which you are jailed if you abuse or discriminate dalits.

That is not to say everything is hunky dory. Time and again you will hear cases of oppression but that is an exception highlighted by media and not the norm.

My grand-father was a daily wage worker, my father a clerk in a bank and I am a finance professional. My personal anecdotal evidence should give you an idea that if you work hard then anything is possible in India. Unfortunately many people from my community don't believe in working but free handouts.

They spin tales of oppression more often then not to get Govt compensation and relief which is highlighted. Politicians from our own community like Mayawati like to keep us poor and uneducated so that we remain a vote bank.

Please remove your hatred filled lenses through which you view India.

I did not intend to offend the Dalit community. If I did so accept my apology. I did however want to point out India is as knee deep in crap as we are in Pakistan. Therefore I find the daily dose of Indian's giving us uppity uppity tedious to say the least. India is no Norway so please stop with the patronizing attitude.

Yes, peace would give dividends but that applies in equal measure to India as well as Pakistan. You will know why India is in the crap it is and we in Pakistan also know why we are in the crap we are.

 

[Spectre]

I did not intend to offend the Dalit community. If I did so accept my apology. I did however want to point out India is as knee deep in crap as we are in Pakistan. Therefore I find the daily dose of Indian's giving us uppity uppity tedious to say the least. India is no Norway so please stop with the patronizing attitude.

Yes, peace would give dividends but that applies in equal measure to India as well as Pakistan. You will know why India is in the crap it is and we in Pakistan also know why we are in the crap we are.

Now doubt we are in a crappy position, I make no bones about the amount of misery present in India.

I agree there are many trolls from our side and I always suggest to them they should behave like guests in PDF and not shite all over the place. You are a senior member and have every right to respond to BS sprouted by Indian trolls but I would make a personal appeal not to bring a certain community into this as this is offensive to me and other Dalits who have worked hard and sacrificed to overcome the stigma attached to them.

Regards

 

[third eye]

Valid observations. Point wise replies below each.

In 1947, Indian armed forces were airlifted to Kashmiri capital of Srinagar for defense against Pakistani tribal militants. They were not allowed to land unless Pakistanis hadn't reached the capital first; an outcome of a typical defensive policy.

Confusing, unclear english. Rephrase please.

n 1965, when Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K during Operation Gibraltar, India chickened out again. Instead of retaliating at Pakistani weak points such as East Pakistan, it opened another war front in Punjab which pakistanis defended vigorously.

Missed the point .

To release pressure on J&K a high value objective -Lahore was threatened which achieved the desired results. The Golden Arrows were withdrawn and PA recoiled and shifted south to defend lahore. J&K was saved.

Loss of parts EP would not have impacted WP operations.

In 1971, India lost its chance to resolve Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, despite gaining total victory in East Pakistan. With Instrument of Surrender, India could have demanded Pakistan-controlled Kashmir in exchange of some 90,000 Pakistani POWs.

Very correct. Never after WW II did any army give not three but all four aces to its leaders . The IA did . IG missed the opportunity.

In 1984, we see India for the first time going offensive and taking Siachen Glacier from Pakistan during Operation Meghdoot. The cost of maintaining military presence at such high-altitudes have drained budgets for both nations, yet it has no dispute solving significance for either country.

No offensive.

We merely occupied vacant spots of our own territory

• In 1999, Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K again to regain its losses from India's Operation Meghdoot. The invaders were driven out and India did nothing to grab further territory from Pakistan. This conflict ended in a stalemate, giving birth to Pakistani wars of attrition against India.

• Since then, there has been two major standoffs in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan. In both cases, India effectively chickened out after mobilizing its armed forces near the Pakistani borders. These standoffs have cost India billions of dollars, yet they have no conflict resolving effect on Pakistan.

India's point world wide was & is that the sanctity of LC was to be maintained as brought out in Shimla agreement.

Pak did the opposite and got kicked in the groin.

Next, Pak does not seem to realise it is already been taken to war - no bullets fly across the IB / LC . Nukes are no use in this war.

Wars do not follow the scripted lines.

 

[Echo_419]

Last night I was going through a long history of military conflicts between India and Pakistan. Surprisingly enough, in most conflicts I found India merely defending attacks on its territory from Pakistan:

• In 1947, Indian armed forces were airlifted to Kashmiri capital of Srinagar for defense against Pakistani tribal militants. They were not allowed to land unless Pakistanis hadn't reached the capital first; an outcome of a typical defensive policy.
• In 1965, when Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K during Operation Gibraltar, India chickened out again. Instead of retaliating at Pakistani weak points such as East Pakistan, it opened another war front in Punjab which pakistanis defended vigorously.
• In 1971, India lost its chance to resolve Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, despite gaining total victory in East Pakistan. With Instrument of Surrender, India could have demanded Pakistan-controlled Kashmir in exchange of some 90,000 Pakistani POWs.
• In 1984, we see India for the first time going offensive and taking Siachen Glacier from Pakistan during Operation Meghdoot. The cost of maintaining military presence at such high-altitudes have drained budgets for both nations, yet it has no dispute solving significance for either country.
• In 1999, Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K again to regain its losses from India's Operation Meghdoot. The invaders were driven out and India did nothing to grab further territory from Pakistan. This conflict ended in a stalemate, giving birth to Pakistani wars of attrition against India.
• Since then, there has been two major standoffs in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan. In both cases, India effectively chickened out after mobilizing its armed forces near the Pakistani borders. These standoffs have cost India billions of dollars, yet they have no conflict resolving effect on Pakistan.

So my question for Indian members of PDF is as simple as this:

• What the heck is wrong with you people? When will you stop behaving like our Palestinian brothers who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity?
• When will you grow up and act responsibly towards solving the Kashmir dispute by either hook or crook, thus ushering an era of peace and prosperity in the region? Having two nuclear armed states involved in proxy warfare against each other is not exactly solving anything.

Simple answer we were not strong enough then

 

[ito]

India was always a soft state until I say 2000's. This was always reflected in its foreign policy and also its dealing with Pakistan. This was the reason why Pakistan was always the aggressor in all the war between India and Pakistan.

Since a decade there has been a significant change in the way it deals with other countries (This started first under the Vajpayee regime). India under Modi has become highly aggressive.

 

[Echo_419]

We have no oil, we used up all our gas. Sure we have a nicely located seaport, but what good would it do unless China keep investing in it on its own.

Bs Pakistan is a very strong nation with a very homogenous population you are a sleeping tiger

 

[SR-91]

@Norwegian
Kashmir issue does not need an immediate solution. Let it hang. The return on investment is too low.
We have far more important things to take care of.

WOW!!!!!!
You are right. Ugly truth.

 

[nForce]

WOW!!!!!!
You are right. Ugly truth.

Lately, I've been working very hard not to say ugly truths everywhere and for a change say only what people want to hear. But it seems the trait has very deep roots

 

[Dash]

Last night I was going through a long history of military conflicts between India and Pakistan. Surprisingly enough, in most conflicts I found India merely defending attacks on its territory from Pakistan:

• In 1947, Indian armed forces were airlifted to Kashmiri capital of Srinagar for defense against Pakistani tribal militants. They were not allowed to land unless Pakistanis hadn't reached the capital first; an outcome of a typical defensive policy.
• In 1965, when Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K during Operation Gibraltar, India chickened out again. Instead of retaliating at Pakistani weak points such as East Pakistan, it opened another war front in Punjab which pakistanis defended vigorously.
• In 1971, India lost its chance to resolve Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, despite gaining total victory in East Pakistan. With Instrument of Surrender, India could have demanded Pakistan-controlled Kashmir in exchange of some 90,000 Pakistani POWs.
• In 1984, we see India for the first time going offensive and taking Siachen Glacier from Pakistan during Operation Meghdoot. The cost of maintaining military presence at such high-altitudes have drained budgets for both nations, yet it has no dispute solving significance for either country.
• In 1999, Pakistani forces infiltrated J&K again to regain its losses from India's Operation Meghdoot. The invaders were driven out and India did nothing to grab further territory from Pakistan. This conflict ended in a stalemate, giving birth to Pakistani wars of attrition against India.
• Since then, there has been two major standoffs in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan. In both cases, India effectively chickened out after mobilizing its armed forces near the Pakistani borders. These standoffs have cost India billions of dollars, yet they have no conflict resolving effect on Pakistan.

So my question for Indian members of PDF is as simple as this:

• What the heck is wrong with you people? When will you stop behaving like our Palestinian brothers who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity?
• When will you grow up and act responsibly towards solving the Kashmir dispute by either hook or crook, thus ushering an era of peace and prosperity in the region? Having two nuclear armed states involved in proxy warfare against each other is not exactly solving anything.

We never thought of offensive policy towards Pakistan because its even more expensive with lesser returns.

 

[MastanKhan]

Indian standoffs were intended for conventional war but failed short of execution due to Pakistan's first nuclear strike policy...

Hi,

You have opened up a great thread----. Time and weapons procurement is on Pakistan's side----. The only thing that they are left with is smart talk and sharp rhetoric---.

In due time----they are also going to lose that as well. Their terrorists labelling policy against Pakistan has failed----their maligning the world against Pakistan has failed----.

With the exposure of their terrorist affiliations with MQM---they are not in position to convince the world of their innocence anymore----.

 

[SipahSalar]

@Norwegian kindly requesting you to stop using your brain.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Nice points. I often see you commenting on Jpost. Not sure if that's YOU of course

I am not on Jpost ; I am sorry that I dont even know what is Jpost

Stephen Cohen is a pretty standard name for Jewish Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of people with that same name.