Why Evengelicals hate Muslims: an Evengelical minister's perspective/Pastor Bob Roberts JR.

[Goritoes]

What is Quran to you brother? What kind of justification is this that its wrong to go against Quran but umm but umm ------ give the aggressors some space? What for ? For shaking the very foundations of an entity meant to enjoin good and forbid evil? We as muslims lost dominion after the ummayd took over

I used Ali's decision on not providing justice to Uthman RA as example, I know Ali RA was right and the decision by Talha/Zubair and Ayesha RA was hasty and emotional, but Ali RA was given Oath of Allegiance hence taking arms against him will be against Quran, you are here telling me XYZ is against Quran but umm , show me one Shia scholar who praised 3 Rashidun Caliphs like Shia praise Ali RA, without If' and But's ? Show me where its says that Ali RA was greater than Mosa and ESa Pbuh on both, yet this is a common knowledge among the cultists that Ali RA and other 11 demi God like Imams are greater than all the Prophets (Nauzubillah) so why giving Mushriqs some space ?
Quran is top and most important sources and Kalam of Allah, anyone use it to lie and fabricate something is as equally wrong as someone who oppose it or go against it.

whats left there if The Quranic injunctions were voilated? Go in hot and punish the mischievers to establish the writ of Allah swt on the promised land and that's what Ali did. The man was not only fighting against the renegades but the cabal of his time

Who say anything about the man himself, Ali RA was one of best man and who denies it? yes he was in tough position and he handle it well, but tell me why Shia cultists today curse his brothers (Companions) and Wives of Prophet in his name? why invented BS bidats in the name of Ahle byte, Ali RA although great was prone to make mistakes and he did make mistakes, he burned some people alive in kufa, which was later corrected by Abbas RA that only Allah can use the burning as Punishment and Ali corrected his mistakes. you are trying hard to take the credit from other Sahabah and give it to Ali RA just like Shia did with everything , from the title Ameer ul Mumineen which was given to Omar Khattab to Al Siddiq, why your cult so hell bent on turning a good/great man into a demi God?

Moreover the demand from the governor of syria about first avenge the blood of Caliph Usman and only then he gonna step down was outrageously ridiculous.

You and I are in no position to judge their decisions and why they made it, so who is wrong and who is right I'd let Allah be the judge, not a Jahil Aytuallah sitting in Kufa.

You tell me muawiyah rule extended for 20 years after an Agreement with Imam Hassan the 5th righteously guided Caliph of Islam that he will handover Caliphate to muawiyah if he promises not to appoint a successor for the sake of preserving peace among muslims- -------. Did muwaviya in any of his haydays ever touched a single man involved in the siege of Madina?

Does he have to? Killers of Uthman RA were at large, two major battles already saw thousands of Muslims dead, Ali RA was martyred in Salah, Amr Bin Aas almost assassinated, Muawiyya RA himself was almost killed. Who was there to take revenge, you know the fate of those who were responsible for killing Uthman RA? All of them died horrible deaths, but that's not the topic, tell me where is Imamat in Quran, you are calling Ali , Hasan and Hussain RA imams, Prove it from evidence from Quran ( Direct verses ) because of you associate these great people with things they are not that take your out from the circle of Islam, tell me why cultists today insult Muawiyya RA when Hasan RA himself give him Oath of Allegiance ? Family of Prophet had great time under his ruling and no one has any issues, but you people who claim to follow them has some special khujli that in your Majalis you use disgusting language against him and other companions? did Hasan or Hussain RA ever insult anyone? did they ever beat themselves with swords or knifes, did they ask you to prostrate to a horse? tell me where all these things coming from forget about what companions of Prophet did, why they fight...that matter was between them and Allah and he only he will be the judge among them.

On one hand he's challenging the authority of a rightly guided and elected Imam/Caliph for not rushing to take revenge and on the other hand asking for something which could only be demanded from the Govt?

So under your logic, Ali RA wa wrong to when he deliberately delayed giving oath to Abu Bakr , remember Ali RA and his close companions were having meetings in their homes about the said matter, where Umar Khattab threaten to burn his house down? and later Shia Cultist fabricated this whole narration by saying Umar RA killed Fatima RA ( nauzubillah ) they beat and flog her on the streets while Ali RA like a Coward just stand and watch? As I said Shia cult is based on lie and fabricated BS, and as we say in Urdu Jhoot ke pair nai hote eventually it falls flat on its faith.

You want to read further, here let me give you a link to start over...

TwelverShia.net - Refuting Shia Allegations Online Everywhere

The TwelverShia.net team's goal is to provide the authentic alternative to the Islamic history that is propagated online through various Shia websites

www.twelvershia.net

Last thing if you are a Shia then come up and own it, If you want to debate facts I should know if I am talking to a misguided Sunni or a Cultists.

 

[Muhammed45]

@Mentee dear one, this guy from USA apparently is an specialist. Whether a Wahabi guy or a dusguised Jew doesn't really matter, what matters is that these different characters mostly from western countries claiming of being Muslims rely on Wahabi teachings of refuting millions of Muslims.

The hatred that the guy spreads is astonishing, as you can see, he hardly tried to make faultlines among Islamic sects. All of those issues can be countered but this is not a religious forum. Imo, we have to accept that we are called Shia or Sunni for some reasons. There would conflicting ideas, it may even cause problems. But the religious discussion must be held civil for the better.

This method of calling everyone else a Kafir or non Muslim is a Jewish/Wahabi teaching. That's what we called Takfir and Takfirism that is currently Burning the whole Middle East.

Solution to this problem is mutual respect among Muslims and avoiding Takfirism.

I have talked much about Zionist Sunnis, we shall not forget the Zionist Shias followers of Shirazi and Bahaii cult. Ironically Bahaiis and Wahabis are one hand behind the scene, both cults have their bases in Britain/Israel/USA.

This Abdul Baha's tomb in Israel

Shrine of ʻAbdu'l-Bahá - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The shrazi cult that insist on insulting Sunni figures are followers of him.


See this link below and Listen to this Shirazi follower in the video Clip. He says two brothers from Jordan and Palestine made a phone call to me, asking me, how can we gain citizenship of Great Britain? I replied to them, insult mother Ayesha send me the clip and then the government of Great Britain will pay you 750 pound per month Plus UK citizen ship and you have to do it in the name of Shias.

yjc.news

Ce domaine est peut-être à vendre!

www.google.com

The Channel that advertises them is located in Britain named Fadak. There are tens of Satellite Channels and websites insulting Islamic figures 24/7 in the name of Shias.

Our enemies are well aware of our problems and differences.

 

[Mentee]

I used Ali's decision on not providing justice to Uthman RA as example, I know Ali RA was right and the decision by Talha/Zubair and Ayesha RA was hasty and emotional, but Ali RA was given Oath of Allegiance hence taking arms against him will be against Quran, you are here telling me XYZ is against Quran but umm , show me one Shia scholar who praised 3 Rashidun Caliphs like Shia praise Ali RA, without If' and But's ? Show me where its says that Ali RA was greater than Mosa and ESa Pbuh on both, yet this is a common knowledge among the cultists that Ali RA and other 11 demi God like Imams are greater than all the Prophets (Nauzubillah) so why giving Mushriqs some space ?
Quran is top and most important sources and Kalam of Allah, anyone use it to lie and fabricate something is as equally wrong as someone who oppose it or go against it.



Who say anything about the man himself, Ali RA was one of best man and who denies it? yes he was in tough position and he handle it well, but tell me why Shia cultists today curse his brothers (Companions) and Wives of Prophet in his name? why invented BS bidats in the name of Ahle byte, Ali RA although great was prone to make mistakes and he did make mistakes, he burned some people alive in kufa, which was later corrected by Abbas RA that only Allah can use the burning as Punishment and Ali corrected his mistakes. you are trying hard to take the credit from other Sahabah and give it to Ali RA just like Shia did with everything , from the title Ameer ul Mumineen which was given to Omar Khattab to Al Siddiq, why your cult so hell bent on turning a good/great man into a demi God?



You and I are in no position to judge their decisions and why they made it, so who is wrong and who is right I'd let Allah be the judge, not a Jahil Aytuallah sitting in Kufa.



Does he have to? Killers of Uthman RA were at large, two major battles already saw thousands of Muslims dead, Ali RA was martyred in Salah, Amr Bin Aas almost assassinated, Muawiyya RA himself was almost killed. Who was there to take revenge, you know the fate of those who were responsible for killing Uthman RA? All of them died horrible deaths, but that's not the topic, tell me where is Imamat in Quran, you are calling Ali , Hasan and Hussain RA imams, Prove it from evidence from Quran ( Direct verses ) because of you associate these great people with things they are not that take your out from the circle of Islam, tell me why cultists today insult Muawiyya RA when Hasan RA himself give him Oath of Allegiance ? Family of Prophet had great time under his ruling and no one has any issues, but you people who claim to follow them has some special khujli that in your Majalis you use disgusting language against him and other companions? did Hasan or Hussain RA ever insult anyone? did they ever beat themselves with swords or knifes, did they ask you to prostrate to a horse? tell me where all these things coming from forget about what companions of Prophet did, why they fight...that matter was between them and Allah and he only he will be the judge among them.



So under your logic, Ali RA wa wrong to when he deliberately delayed giving oath to Abu Bakr , remember Ali RA and his close companions were having meetings in their homes about the said matter, where Umar Khattab threaten to burn his house down? and later Shia Cultist fabricated this whole narration by saying Umar RA killed Fatima RA ( nauzubillah ) they beat and flog her on the streets while Ali RA like a Coward just stand and watch? As I said Shia cult is based on lie and fabricated BS, and as we say in Urdu Jhoot ke pair nai hote eventually it falls flat on its faith.

You want to read further, here let me give you a link to start over...

TwelverShia.net - Refuting Shia Allegations Online Everywhere

The TwelverShia.net team's goal is to provide the authentic alternative to the Islamic history that is propagated online through various Shia websites

www.twelvershia.net

Last thing if you are a Shia then come up and own it, If you want to debate facts I should know if I am talking to a misguided Sunni or a Cultists.

You are accusing all others of personality worshipping but sadly indulging in the same just like those indian reporters who would corner a muslim and hassle him into chant india "zindabad"


Why cant you come to a consesus that you cannot force someone into subscribing to your seniority list coz it's not part of the faith , simple as that.


Did i for once try to impose any hierarchical order on you? All iam arguing is that do away with hearsay and take guiding cannons directly from the Book of Allah Swt . Ofcourse not everything is mentioned in it by name and it didn't have to be this way. Allah Swt gave a policy guideline and when you are holding any politcal position you will be judged accordingly coz it effect our DEEN no matter who you are, so plz keep this adab in check . Read how modudi and abulkalam Azad the stalwarts of deoband had described the wars against Ali. No body is advocating for Imam Ali coz he happens to be Imam Ali, I even invited you to reverse the roles and judge it by the standards set by Quran and Sunnah . When two sides fight one has to be in the wrong , no?



look at the ummah at large and their priorties Severing ties with and Killing muslims over explaining what went wrong in the light of Quran and Sunnah and who's responsible for the downslide of ummah when sharia itself doesn't allow any such punishments to be carried out . But giving red carpet welcome to the enemies of Allah Swt is acceptable?


Everyone other who don't follow the hanfi jurisprudence is destined for hell ? .so plz tell me mr Sunni how many of the Sunni countries out there ever done anything worth while to persecute the sorcerers and money lenders or even drive them out thier lands?


Where's the adab for Allah Swt ? whats the reason that you guys are in cohorts with His sworn enemies but issuing fatwas over ridiculous things? Did you know Allah Swt didn't warn to wage war against those who don't follow a man made seniority list and superstitions attached to it . What's there for a guy following any other school of thought to be proud of that he should pledge allegiance to any Sunni republic?

Last thing if you are a Shia then come up and own it, If you want to debate facts I should know if I am talking to a misguided Sunni or a Cultists.

I speak for myself and wouldn't adopt a tag other than being called a muslim as its forbidden in the scriptures. I however pray to Allah Swt to resurrect me in the company of Ali and all those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in upholding the Abrahimic Covenant . Plz go ahead and make the same dua to be with muwaviya as in your neck of the woods everything seems to be hunky dowry and the killer and the assailant both holds the same position of piety while completely sidelining the touch stone which is QURAN

 

[Mentee]

dear one, this guy from USA apparently is an specialist. Whether a Wahabi guy or a dusguised Jew doesn't really matter, what matters is that these different characters mostly from western countries claiming of being Muslims rely on Wahabi teachings of refuting millions of Muslims.

It's the veil of concocted SANCTITY which needs to be ripped apart. Adab for this adab for that touching the knees of our shaikh with 4 fingers or 3? . But no regard for The Creator and what He warned us about. We are going in the same lizzard hole which the jews and Christians opted before us. Just make a sect , be proud of that , declare other's honour and property halal in the name of serving Allah swt ?


Majority of our mullahs are ignorant. they cant even come to terms with the Quran so how can they comprehend what came before? For them history starts with their shaikh and ends with him so we better stop reading and become bots .


Did you know that the director of AL AZHAR issued fatwah a century ago declaring usuary permissible as requested by a white friend? But we into adab ---------.

 

[Muhammed45]

It's the veil of concoted SANCTITY which needs to be ripped apart. Adab for this adab for that touching the knees of our shaikh with 4 fingers or 3? . But no regard for The Creator and what He warned us about. We are going in the same lizzard hole which the jews and Christians before us opted, make a sect , be proud of that , declare other's honour and property halal in the name of serving Allah swt ?


Majority of our mullahs are ignorant. they cant even come to terms with the Quran so how can they comprehend what came before? For them history starts with their shaikh and ends with him so we better stop reading and become bots .


Did you know that the director of AL AZHAR had issued fatwah a century ago declaring usuary permissible as requested by a white friend? But we into adab ---------.

I got your advice dear one. Sometimes things go out of control specially when you see injustice against the oppressed. But it can't be a reason to forget your advice

 

[Mentee]

I got your advice dear one. Sometimes things go out of control specially when you see injustice against the oppressed. But it can't be a reason to forget your advice

The global hiest is forcing women into prostitution, kids starving, wars being financed , thugs being pampered, food and medicine being contaminated on purpose, nature getting screwed and here we are indulging in shoving adab down others throat. The rebellion which Ali faced wasn't just another local conflict it changed the course of islamic and global history to the point that the megis and money lenders overtly established their empires even in the bounds of the promised land. That part is deliberately screened out to legitimise the royalty across Islamic world wrapping it up with the apprehension of blasphemy. But those blessed with an insight consider it to be the first innovation in Deen at state level when yazeed got nominated for the throne by none other than his own father causing the agreement between Imam Hassan and Muwaviya void ab initio .



No body seems to be willing to go back to the scriptures and be done with but my shaikh said this and that. How many times Did we get to hear from the pulpit that The Prophet Saww warned Cyrus about sorcerers ? Do we have any idea about how organised the criminal institutes are? where they originated from Or How they've been operating for all these millinea ?



The SANCTITY of discussing jurisprudence over petty things is keeping us bogged down like the inches of distance you should keep while talking to your shaikh or whether the new lipstick formula is halal or haram or hey shaikh is it permissible to say salam to person who don't have a beard etc the ignorant mullahs are even marketing for the vaccines while they may have never stepped foot inside a med school or ever read basic biology in their seminaries.



For me personally this adab takes the back seat when these megis are casting spells upon cities and continents aided by the cursed money lenders. How about we go back to learn a thing or two about Allah Swt Sunnah and prepare to take these demons/shiateens head on like Abraham pbuh did?



There was a time in Pakistan when woodocraft was done under the guise of "Noori ilm" but now the gloves are off so much so that they are openingly advertising their "trade" with no sugar coating- --------- but yeah I still need more of that "sanctity"

 

[Muhammed45]

The global hiest is forcing women into prostitution, kids starving, wars being financed , thugs being pampered, food and medicine being contaminated on purpose, nature getting screwed and here we are indulging in shoving adab down others throat. The rebellion which Ali faced wasn't just another local conflict it changed the course of islamic and global history to the point that the megis and money lenders overtly established their empires even in the bounds of the promised land. That part is deliberately screened out to legitimise the royalty across Islamic world wrapping it up with the apprehension of blasphemy. But those blessed with an insight consider it to be the first innovation in Deen at state level when yazeed got nominated for the throne by none other than his own father causing the agreement between Imam Hassan and Muwaviya void ab initio .



No body seems to be willing to go back to the scriptures and be done with but my shaikh said this and that. How many times Did we get to hear from the pulpit that The Prophet Saww warned Cyrus about sorcerers ? Do we have any idea about how organised the criminal institutes are? where they originated from Or How they've been operating for all these millinea ?



The SANCTITY of discussing jurisprudence over petty things is keeping us bogged down like the inches of distance you should keep while talking to your shaikh or whether the new lipstick formula is halal or haram or hey shaikh is it permissible to say salam to person who don't have a beard etc the ignorant mullahs are even marketing for the vaccines while they may have never stepped foot inside a med school or ever read basic biology in their seminaries.



For me personally this adab takes the back seat when these megis are casting spells upon cities and continents aided by the cursed money lenders. How about we go back to learn a thing or two about Allah Swt Sunnah and prepare to take these demons/shiateens head on like Abraham pbuh did?



There was a time in Pakistan when woodocraft was done under the guise of "Noori ilm" but now the gloves are off so much so that they are openingly advertising their "trade" with no sugar coating- --------- but yeah I still need more of that "sanctity"

Yes, that was why Imam Ali (AS) tried to remove Muawiyah from Sham-at.

The difference between our Imams and people like Yazeed and Muawiyah is that Imams didn't try to buy people's faith by gold and silver. Yazeed easily bought people of Koufa and turned them against Imam Hossein (AS). The same people that had already invited Imam to come and establish prophet Muhammed's ruling system. The battle between true Islam and people bought by Yazeedi gold. How easily they sold out themselves to gold.

You pointed to the truth.

Thanks to American spread liberalism, poverty is destroying all those countries that have made dollar their reserve currency. This Financial system in which ussury is a common thing, prostitution is considered as a legal job, gayness is something to be proud of, is One of the very American gifts to the world people. It existed before USA's global hegemony but not in this global scale having the strongest military force behind as its main supporting force.

USA is the roots of all evils and anyone united with them would experience it with its flesh and blood.

 

[Mentee]

. Yazeed easily bought people of Koufa and turned them against Imam Hossein (AS). The same people that had already invited Imam to come and establish prophet Muhammed's ruling system

Not many are aware while putting whole blame on kofans that the letter was written by a loyal companion of the Prophet Saww, Suleman bin ? I forgot his complete name. But the state apparatus terrified every one into submission for a while ------.

Ali RA although great was prone to make mistakes and he did make mistakes, he burned some people alive in kufa, which was later corrected by Abbas RA that only Allah can use the burning as Punishment and Ali corrected his mistakes.

A blatant lie fabricated by nasbis and umayadan historians. Ali never for once went against sharia when The Prophet Saww himself declared Ali babul Ilm, a gateway to knowledge . The history is littered with instances of him forgiving his enemies even in the heat of the battle field where he got spat at because it became personal rather than purely serving The Lord . neither did he convert over night to save his stature as a tribal leader ------


As per the scholars Ali made a statement to the following effect for obvious reasons.


The enemy think of me to be a simpleton , had it not been for observing the Devine Law in letter and spirit they coundnt have found a statesman as astute and as crafty than Ali in the whole of Arabia. Praise be to Allah Swt

 

[vostok]

I have had some relations with local protestants here in the Ukraine. All those "churches" pretends there were no 2000 years from Christ and almost all of them see Orthodox pastors as some stupid costumed clowns and believers as some brain washed fools. They have no respect to Old Rus and to Old Christianity. And main offices of their "churches", by some coincidence, are located in the US.

 

[Goritoes]

You are accusing all others of personality worshipping but sadly indulging in the same just like those indian reporters who would corner a muslim and hassle him into chant india "zindabad"

Where? Where did I indulge in personality worshiping ? Alhamdulliah I worship Allah alone, I ask him for help, I do Sajdah to him alone and I invoke only Allah in my prayers, No Imams, no Prophets, No Sahabah. Don't try this lying trick on me my brother in humanity, talk with evidence.

Why cant you come to a consesus that you cannot force someone into subscribing to your seniority list coz it's not part of the faith , simple as that.

Of course not, I agree with you everyone has their aqeedah, I have no issue with your for as long as your people don't insult my aqeedah, I am very straight forward not a brain dead mulla, I don't consider Shia Muslims, I don't consider Shia my brothers in Islam, yes they are my brothers in Humanity but not in Islam, Shia can do their bidat for as long as they don't insult Sahabah and Mothers of Prophet, stop misquoting Quran/hadeeth and lying about this Sahabi aur that Sahabi and Sunni and shia can live in Peace, although I believe that peace will be temporary because without insult/Lying and deceiving a Shia can't be shia.
Haq can only be one, and for me Haq can't be with those who use pathetic language and Bidat in religion. Whoever is on Quran and Sunnah is on HAQ.

Did i for once try to impose any hierarchical order on you?

No one is imposing nothing on anyone, plus its not like I show you evidence and you suddenly have a enlightenment and leave the Shiaism, you can believe whatever you want, but when you associate yourself with a religion called Islam but your belief is against it then yes I am well within my right to call you or anyone else out.

Ofcourse not everything is mentioned in it by name and it didn't have to be this way.

You see friend, I told you Sunni's Articles of Faith are mentioned in Quran, you want verses I can provide, all those fundamentals decides my salvation, now ask your Irani brothers, I don't believe in Imamat of 12, or Willayat of Ali RA ask your top scholars if I am a Muslim according to their standard? Answer is No, anyone who denies Ali's Imamat is a kaffir and will be going to hell, so how come Allah and his rasool left out the most important article (according to Shia) from Quran? how come Rasool on his Hajj did not even mentioned Ali, All he had to do is take Ali hand and declare him leader? he did not... Allah mentioned everything in detail which is necessary for our salvation, Imamat is not mentioned because its a made up thing, a fabrication and Allah Protect Quran from all sorts of Fabrications.
As for my Adab, Where is Shia Adab when they talk about Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab , Uthman , Ayesha , Zubair, Khalid waleed , Talha , Amr bin Aas and many more RA to all ? Practice what you preach. I have no respect or words of Adaab for a cult who disrespect my Sahabah and ummhatul Mumineen.

When two sides fight one has to be in the wrong , no?

No, Not always... but hypothetically even if one Party is wrong, who are you to judge the other Party ? When Ali RA won the battle against the Sahabah , what did he do ? did he abuse and insult the dead ? did he mock them ? nah he was a man of honor unlike your current Top scholars and Ayatuallah's , he cried over the battle, he respectfully send Ayesha RA back to madina with he honor and respect intact , not a word of curse, not a work of Insult , not a word of Lanat, and Shia today cunts the lot of them curse her for the battle.

look at the ummah at large and their priorties Severing ties with and Killing muslims over explaining what went wrong in the light of Quran and Sunnah and who's responsible for the downslide of ummah when sharia itself doesn't allow any such punishments to be carried out . But giving red carpet welcome to the enemies of Allah Swt is acceptable?

So you worry about Ummah, then why not worry when Ummat was first divided ? If Shia really care about Ummat then why stop mocking and insult ? why not drop fabricated stuff and lies to join the larger Sunni community ? Shia has no evidence based on Quran or sunnah but for the sake of Money they run the business of Tombs of Ahle byte, you think people only go there for Aqeedat ? its a business that involved millions of dollars every year. Shia today are enemies of Allah and Islam, just as Jews and Hindu's so I see no different among them honestly.

Everyone other who don't follow the hanfi jurisprudence is destined for hell ? .so plz tell me mr Sunni how many of the Sunni countries out there ever done anything worth while to persecute the sorcerers and money lenders or even drive them out thier lands?

Show me 1 Sunni scholar who is universally accepted who insult and mock Sahabah or Family of Prophet, when you do, I'll post videos of your scholars with their Taqqiyya mode off and the language they use, only thugs and scums use... Just because there is infighting does not mean a Sunni off shoot insult and Mock, my Issue is with those Shia who do Wah Wah Wah , or shout Nara-e- Haidry over Galiyan and insults in their Majalis.

Where's the adab for Allah Swt ? whats the reason that you guys are in cohorts with His sworn enemies but issuing fatwas over ridiculous things? Did you know Allah Swt didn't warn to wage war against those who don't follow a man made seniority list and superstitions attached to it . What's there for a guy following any other school of thought to be proud of that he should pledge allegiance to any Sunni republic?

You worry about Nobody's issuing Fatwa's? lol why are you diverting the topic from Imamat in Quran to XYZ ? show me evidence, 1 verse from Quran that's it... believe in Imamat is fundamental and necessary for one's salvation right ? forget about Sunni's or their republic, defend your Shia religion cause we follow Quran and Sunnah for what we are called Sunni's , who do you follow? Abdullah Ibn Saba ? Shia's definitely not follow Ali , Hasan and Hussain RA to all for that they are too great for small and cheap people like Shia who curse and mock dead Sahabi's in their majalis and when they are caught and called out, they hide behind family of Prophet.

I speak for myself and wouldn't adopt a tag other than being called a muslim as its forbidden in the scriptures. I however pray to Allah Swt to resurrect me in the company of Ali and all those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in upholding the Abrahimic Covenant . Plz go ahead and make the same dua to be with muwaviya as in your neck of the woods everything seems to be hunky dowry and the killer and the assailant both holds the same position of piety while completely sidelining the touch stone which is QURAN

Wah, Shia aur Sharminda ? lol you can't even own your cult affiliation , I can only laugh that how you dodge questions regarding evidences , as I said you not your Ayatuallah sitting in Kufa can bring 1 verse from Quran about the Imamat of Ali RA because its not there. Plus since when you invoke Allah LOL Shia invoke their Imams in prayers, and believe Imams control everything in heavens and earth and they are the master of day of Judgment ? don't have trust on your infallable Imam no more ? I Pray to be in the company of Rasool and his companions and other Prophets, and my Dua is to Allah not Jaffar , Baqar or Askari etc And for your killer claims, aby kabhi tu Sach bol yaar , tum logo ke kapra kaale , Dil Kaale aur Imaan bhi Kaala, Sari zindagi apne ap ko peethte rehna aur marte rehna shayed yahi Allah ka azaab hai tum jhootay logo pe.

Now, as from you Muawiyya RA was killer and bad person, and your Imam Hasan RA give Oath of allegiance to him that makes him even worse lol you guys are given talking points but not counter arguments with evidences or proper references, A father is not responsible for his sons mistakes, Muawiyya has nothing to do with what Yazeed did because he would never know, yes his mistake was that he elected his son caliph after him, but Allah will punish only those who are directly responsible for the incident, for which Muawiyya RA is free off.

Last but not the least, tell where is your last Imam? how old he is ? who is his father, as 11th Imam does not leave a heir ? where is your Last Imam ? who told Ayatullah to talk on his behalf, I am very interested in that fairy tale

 

[Mentee]

your Imam Hasan RA give Oath of allegiance to him that makes him even worse lol

My Imam Hassan who also happens to be Syed ul shabab al jannah by the decree of Allah Swt was honouring The Prophet Saww words of making peace between the two factions of muslims hence why he left the caliphate otherwise he could have obliterated the ummaydas who truned caliphate into a family busniess ---------


After succeeding Imam Hassan, muwaviya had everything at his disposal to have his way and prosecute the killers of caliph usman and how many he took to task? instead many were given high positions in his kingdom



And no, no oath but a power sharing agreement was reached and every single provision of that contract was voilated with the last one being muwaviya will not appoint a successor let alone using state machinery for taking oath of allegiance for his own son yazeed . Wasn't the people aware of yazeed character before ? What chance did he had to break his way into the power corridor on his own when the ummayda court was surrounded by cunning and shrewd opportunists ever ready to exploit any incident in their favour including some of those paternal uncles? so what do you think coerced all of these people to "elect" him as thier king?



Imam Hussain didnt lift a finger for those 20 years even though his own brother including many loyal companions of The Prophet Saww were assainated and properties confiscated on made up charges of sedition at the hands of power hungry ummayds . The man kept on honoring the agreement until yazeed was imposed on the ummah and this prompted him to call a spade a spade. karbala didn't happen in one day it was a series of events spanning over about 20 years which led to this tradegy.

 

[Goritoes]

My Imam Hassan who also happens to be Syed ul shabab al jannah by the decree of Allah Swt was honouring The Prophet Saww words of making peace between the two factions of muslims hence why he left the caliphate otherwise he could have obliterated the ummaydas who truned caliphate into a family busniess ---------

Imam , Bhai Imam hone ka koi evidence de do , Bring evidence from Quran and Sunnah, nobody believe Ayatuallah's words, second What Hasan RA would do or would not do that's not the point, my Question is if Hasan RA was divinely appointed then giving up a position which was given to him by Allah is wrong and Sin, imagine Prophet Muhammad Pbuh give up Prophethood to Abu Hakam because he was powerful and could kill Prophet any time. Again, Evidence ke sath baat karo warna aage baro, tum jaise brainwashed logo se baat kerne ka koi faida nai hota, if you want ask your Ayatuallah for evidence I'll wait

After succeeding Imam Hassan, muwaviya had everything at his disposal to have his way and prosecute the killers of caliph usman and how many he took to task? instead many were given high positions in his kingdom

Same logic can be applied to Ali RA, he become Khalifa then why didn't he provide Justice to Uthman RA, did Ali RA has bhugs in his heart ? or he was incapable of ruling? you know under Ali RA many position were held by his own relatives lol I doubt they tell you in Majalis

And no, no oath but a power sharing agreement was reached and every single provision of that contract was voilated with the last one being muwaviya will not appoint a successor let alone using state machinery for taking oath of allegiance for his own son yazeed . Wasn't the people aware of yazeed character before ? What chance did he had to break his way into the power corridor on his own when the ummayda court was surrounded by cunning and shrewd opportunists ever ready to exploit any incident in their favour including some of those paternal uncles? so what do you think coerced all of these people to "elect" him as thier king?

Oath was given and some Shia scholars have wrote about it, I am searching for a video in which the source of Oath was given, but even for Argument sake if it was a peace treaty Hasan RA if divinely appointed has no right to give it to someone who is a bad person, That makes Hasan RA even worse than whatever Shia claim against Muawiyya, as for violating the terms Hasan RA in his terms asked him that the Khilafat will return to him in case muawiyya RA died, but unfortunately Hasan RA died before him hence he was not bound to give Khilafat to Hasan RA decedents, yes he made a mistake by electing Yazeed (his Son) but under no pretext one can forsee the future that his Son will later on become the leader under whom grandson of Prophet will be slaughter.
Dude you are a Shia , so to me you follow the Cult and I have no respect for you/your sources/your scholars and whatever you believe in, you people lie and fabricate as I am asking you many time, bring evidence of Imamat and yet you are running from the evidence, going from one topic to another, yaar kabhi tu sach bolo Allah ko mun dekhana hai ya woh bhi Imam ko hi dekhao gay ?

Imam Hussain didnt lift a finger for those 20 years even though his own brother including many loyal companions of The Prophet Saww were assainated and properties confiscated on made up charges of sedition at the hands of power hungry ummayds . The man kept on honoring the agreement until yazeed was imposed on the ummah and this prompted him to call a spade a spade. karbala didn't happen in one day it was a series of events spanning over about 20 years which led to this tradegy.

Evidence ? where and what? under Muawiyya RA family of Prophet thrive, so your sources and BS stories your Jahil Ayatuallah told you, I don't give a .... Muawiyya RA literally signed a blank paper and send it to Hasan RA for him to put whatever terms he wants to, before he give oath to him and despite some terms on which people have reservations and yet he did. I know things like this don't come up in your cultist gathering as they are busing in doing Sujood to Ghoray and beating the crap out of one another, but unfortunately history records HAQ and BATIL, truth no matter how bitter is still truth and Lie no matter how sweet and come under the wraps of Imam or Willayat is still a lie.

as you are trying escape my questions let me try one last time... Show me 1 Verse from Quran that confirm the Imamat of Ali RA and other 11 Imams, I know you don't have but try at least, bring that verse where Allah talk about making Ibrahim PBUH Imam, come on try to karo yaar what you think we sunni's are idiots and we have no counter arguments to your cult Lies and BS they made up in Kufa ? lol this is modern times dude, we know everything about the cult from his origin to its end one day (Inshallah).
Here is another link for you,

Allah tum ko HAQ samjhne ki aqaal de.

 

[Mentee]

I know you don't have but try at least, bring that verse where Allah talk about making Ibrahim PBUH Imam

3:95

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Allah has declared the truth. So follow the Way of Abraham, the upright—who was not a polytheist.”


So a cleric could be an imam for you but not a righteously guided Caliph? In an Islamic state the ruler/Caliph/Imam is expected to lead the nation holistically that's why the word Imam who's responsible to keep the flock together. But yeah after the ummayda coup state and religion got separated to this date as now we have royalty and priests - ------


what a disgraceful fall for ummah from a caliph accepting a court's verdict against him wholeheartedly even though his claim was legitimate to a power hungry cult initiating a civil war when ordered to leave the governorship.

 

[Goritoes]

3:95

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Allah has declared the truth. So follow the Way of Abraham, the upright—who was not a polytheist.”


So a cleric could be an imam for you but not a righteously guided Caliph? In an Islamic state the ruler/Caliph/Imam is expected to lead the nation holistically that's why the word Imam who's responsible to keep the flock together. But yeah after the ummayda coup state and religion got separated to this date as now we have royalty and priests - ------


what a disgraceful fall for ummah from a caliph accepting a court's verdict against him wholeheartedly even though his claim was legitimate to a power hungry cult initiating a civil war when ordered to leave the governorship.

Where does this verse Establish Ali RA imamat or Wilayat ? this verse is talking about Ibrahim AS, there is no talk about Ali RA, let along the remaining 11.

let me teach you a lesson my friend.

Sunni's believe that believing in 6 things will make you a " Muslim " and are necessary for your salvation, all of them are mentioned not once but multiple times in Quran, now Imamat of Ali and rest 11 RA to all, is a fundamental of Shiaism, if anyone denies it he is neither a Muslim nor going to heaven, now why would Allah want me to believe in something he did not even mention it directly? nor did his messenger SAW even bother to talk about it? Rasool Allah has talked about everything we need, he even talked about sex, Aqiqqa , marriage, mehr , War, Peace , etc but skip the fundamental thing which his ummah needs to get their salvation? Why can't you just believe that Imamat is a made up stuff which has no backing from Quran nor sunnah, as I said your Ayatuallah's can't even bring one verse from Quran to back it up because there is none, now you have two choices if you are actually a decent and honest human being, 1) Agree that Imamat concept is made up 2)Quran is incomplete (Quran Bakri kha gaye-logic) choice is yours.

Look, you are getting lost in words, when I say Imam I am specifically talking about the concept of Imam which 12vers say, If by Imam you mean a leader or Caliphs then yes, 1st Imam was Abu Bakr , 2nd Umar Khattab 3rd Uthman and 4th Ali RA to all of them. Do you agree with that? I doubt it, bhai leave ummayyads, your belief is based on a lie and you are just beating around the bush.

what a disgraceful fall for ummah from a caliph accepting a court's verdict against him wholeheartedly even though his claim was legitimate to a power hungry cult initiating a civil war when ordered to leave the governorship.

What are talking about, be specific so I can answer.

Look, I know these talks don't go anywhere as if Allah can not guide you, I can't do nothing to make you see the truth and batil, but one thing I did prove here and anyone with a intellect is that you have no evidence of Imamat of Ali RA and other 11 from Quran and Sunnah, you couldn't produce a shred of evidence in favor of Imamat of Ali or any Sunnah/Authentic hadeeth, on the other hand our (Sunni) fundamentals are repeatedly mentioned in Quran, each one of them and If you want evidence from me be my guest I will provide. And you don't have to turn a verse 360 degree to see them, its right there for even a layman to understand and you know why? because its a matter of eternal salvation and damnation for a soul, that is why Allah made these things crystal clear hence no one can say that Allah made things vague for us, no not at all. Every Article, every Pillar of Islam is easily found in Quran and yet not a single verse for your claim so I rest my case right there, you can run here and there, topic to topic but the truth is, you failed to provide any evidence for your claims.

You also talked about Shia Sunni brotherhood right, show me 1 Shia scholar or 2 maybe, who have respected Abu Bakr, Umar , Uthman, Ayesha , Zubair , Talha , Khalid Waleed, Amr Aas and Muaviyya RA to all of them the same way he did with Ali RA and rest, you talk about having peace, your people don't even talk with respect when talk about these people whom every sunni respect and love, and you talk about peace? If anyone who curse your Imams ( Nauzubillah ) in their congregations will you be able to have peace with them? No, I've seen Videos of highly respected Shia scholars calling every Sunni a B@stard, the video is on Youtube I can post it for you... you want me to have peace and show Adab to such people ? every Shia to me is a Mushriq and Kaffir, whenever they open their mouth they speak BS and Galazat, yeah few among them might be good and respectable but those who are actually good are no longer Shia.

 

[Michael Corleone]

You guys should watch why evangelicals support Jews, probably in the same channel.
they basically want to speed up unification of nation of Israel so it falls eventually and judgement day comes fast