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Why dont we develop millitary ties with Russia?

Remember what germany did to whole europe and wat japan did to US in perl harbor and wat US did in responce and wat Napolean Did and wat Britin did to France during midevil days .
 
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the best option for pakistan would be to enter into a jv with one of the many defence companies. these companies are techno rich but financially weak its the best time for pakistan

look what india did in the 90 they invested a lot of money and now they are repaing the rewards,the akula class submarine is built with indian money,the new pakfa will be built with indian money, brahmos,and god knows how many deals are struck.
 
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i think the Russians are also keen in developing relations with because eventually india will shift towards the west and Russia will loose influence in that country and it will try to counter that by having relations with Pakistan. i think selling to RD-93 engines was a signal from Putin in this direction
 
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Thats true, Russia is keen to be building better mutual relationship with Pakistan. The only problem was Putin, who's extremely pro-Indian but he's gone and things will change soon. :tup:
 
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Like any good arms dealer, Russia will be more than keen to play both sides so to speak. But we have to break the ice first in non-military terms, whether it be economic or social projects, something to achieve a strategic alliance that doesn't reveal militaristic intentions right off the bat. Let's keep it natural and open, and let's be frank, they've never really trusted us and we've never really trusted them, so trust must be built first and it will whether India likes it or not. Certainly the world does not revolve around Indian whims.
 
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Thats true, Russia is keen to be building better mutual relationship with Pakistan. The only problem was Putin, who's extremely pro-Indian but he's gone and things will change soon. :tup:

i am afraid he is not gone - putin is still the most poweful man in russia today! he is working from behind the scenes. the new president is his "yes-man".
 
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i am afraid he is not gone - putin is still the most poweful man in russia today! he is working from behind the scenes. the new president is his "yes-man".

Indeed, I read that somewhere in IHT I think, he's still running the show but there's growing pressure from Military Think Tank and Analysts to engage Pakistan since Gwadar still has a lot of importance for Russia. CAR and Siberia desperately need a road/sea link.
 
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Like any good arms dealer, Russia will be more than keen to play both sides so to speak. But we have to break the ice first in non-military terms, whether it be economic or social projects, something to achieve a strategic alliance that doesn't reveal militaristic intentions right off the bat. Let's keep it natural and open, and let's be frank, they've never really trusted us and we've never really trusted them, so trust must be built first and it will whether India likes it or not. Certainly the world does not revolve around Indian whims.

the genesis lies in the history of political relations between the two countries:

1. the U-2 incident - Ayub Khan allowing US spy flights from Badaber airbase (specifically constructed by the US) near peshawar. Gary Powers gets shot down and Khruschev threatens to destroy pakistan if flights are not stopped.

2. ten years later USSR/India treaty of friendship and USSR vetoes everything under the sun during the Bangladesh crisis.

3. the afghan invasion of 1980 - pakistan acts as conduit and training ground for rebels / mujahideen fighting the communist infidels - finally USSR has to withdraw its 90,000 forces including elite spetnaz SFs. at the peak of the war, 160,000 USSR troops were stationed in afghanistan. PAF takes on the AAF/Soviet Air Forces and shoots down upto 16 a/c without loss.

now with this kind of bad blood between the two countries, it will be very difficult to have a relationship of any type!

but....stranger things have happened but dont hold your breadth!!!
 
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Excellent analysis by Sir Fatman, though I'd like to add Chechnya to the list. The way we handled things there didn't do us good.

But Cold War is a closed chapter and Russia is a different country than the Sovjet Union. We're looking at a semi-capitalist giant, a revived technological powerhouse with growing influence and interest in the region. We should try to engage Iran who's a close ally of Russia as a broker between Islamabad and Moscow, the dame way Israel helped India to get closer to USA.

IPI contracts or atleast a significant share should be given to Gazprom to build CBM. :coffee:
 
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^^^I hope we can do what is being recommended but there is still a problem. Putin has put in old KGB hands in all key posts (being KGB himself) and these guys dont forget the past very easily. they are bringing back to Russia all the trappings of the communist age sans the communism.
 
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i agree with karien beast i hope wet help from china to build good relations with russia i hope somewhere russian miltitry think tank and russian govt is also thinking about that the indian 60% of their arms will buy from west and usa they have to fill it previously indians completely buy naval and airforce equipment from russia now the story is change as we all know naval and airforce arms are more expensive than army arms and now indians are completely focusing naval and some airforce deals from usa russia will loose billions in that matter to fill this gape im sure russia is considering pakistan as arms sell if they can have a deal with israel about black shark helicopters as we all know israelis are the puppets of usa and russia dont have good relations with usa but stilll they are going with the deal i hope russian will do same with pak in coming future i hope our president will make a trip to russia soon and also some miltri deligation in future after 2002 pak predient or PM never went to russia we need to make a trip to russia soon
 
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Rightfully so and well stated. But I think the trump card that Pakistan must use is to point out the fact that the majority of the bad blood happened during the Soviet era, we must convince Russia that those days are over if they haven't already convinced themselves! Russia and the United States seem to be involved in reviving Cold War-esque relationships though we must not allow ourselves as a nation to become trapped in such limiting spectrums again.

this requires pakistan to have a strong economic leg to be able to make its choices independently!!
 
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Excellent analysis by Sir Fatman, though I'd like to add Chechnya to the list. The way we handled things there didn't do us good.

But Cold War is a closed chapter and Russia is a different country than the Sovjet Union. We're looking at a semi-capitalist giant, a revived technological powerhouse with growing influence and interest in the region. We should try to engage Iran who's a close ally of Russia as a broker between Islamabad and Moscow, the dame way Israel helped India to get closer to USA.

IPI contracts or atleast a significant share should be given to Gazprom to build CBM.
fully agreed with neo.
One of the most outstanding things Russia did to us was building our very own Steal Mill near Karachi.

we have massive coal reserves in Thar Balochistan. Some Chinese Geologists working on gold and copper mining in balochistan say the coal reserves of pakistan are so huge that it can be compared to SaudiaArabian oil reserves in terms of Energy Production. Today Chinese have bought almost 70% of the copper reserves from Balochistan for its growing wire making ,consumer electronics and computer hardware manufacturing industries. There are some companies from singapore malasia and australia which are drilling places in Balochistan which can produce enough oil and gas to fullfill all our local demands.
Currently China is the bigest contractor for exploiting the resources of Balochistan.

But we can give the Russians a simillar contract to extract oil and gas from Balochistan at same time also alow it to manufactur large numbers of clean coal power plants which can be run on locally extracted coal. On the other hand we should also engage Moscow in a nuclear power plant deal simillar to that of US-India.
We should also allow the Iranian Food processing and Cosmetick Industries to be set up in Gawadar or Pasni.
We should engage with China to set up an auto Industry in Pakistan which can produce fuel efficent and reliable cars.


Only by getting these things done we can opt for milletary deals with Russia.


Such Deals can creat millions of jobs in our country and can make us self sufficent in Power production and Food production and will make our economy equivalanet to that of India may be.
But as Usuall there are limitations and alot of hinderence.
First of All We are fighting a highly demanding Proxy War on terror on NWFP and Baloch front .
We are fighting BLA and the army of Sardar Akhtar Mengal in Balochistan.
Its not an Indian-Israel-US interest to see pakistan prosper economically and milletarilly.

They want Pakistan to borrow money from them & I-M-F forever .And with the borrowing money they want some cruel conditions to be fullfiled forever.

BUT their is solution to all problems and limitations which require time.
I m ready to bet million $s on the fact that US canot last in Afghanistan Forever one day they will have to withdraw from this extreemly hostile teritory . Its impossible to fight and win War from those who have been fighting wars since their last ten generations.
We should increase our troops strength. At least one Armored Core ,One Artillary Core and One more Infantary Core is required for Balochistan. We must devote at least 50 fighter jets for maintaining air superioritry in Baloch Skies with their centrel base at Smogli Quetta and another strong air base at gawader and one in Nushki. We should have considerable naval strength to patroll and protect the precious warm waters of Balochistan.
Most importantly we sould involve China and Iran to establish their strategik naval and air bases in Balochistan.
 
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