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Why dont we develop millitary ties with Russia?

Brother you are right, the origin for J11 and J10 is Russian. But look at the whole picture, sure China acquired the technology from Russia but through indigenous they have further improved the J10 and J11. In the past China needed Russia's help regarding advanced weaponry such as figher aircrafts, but keep in mind that China has a much higher budget in R&D as compared to Russia and India. Russia and India are not even in the top 10 list of R&D spending, the reason why Chinese Defence Industry has grown soo fast is because of the money that Chinese are pouring in(they will overtake the US in about 10 years). As far as the JF17 are concerned, yes it is being fitted with Russian engines but even if the Russians wouldnt have allowed the reexport there were still other options. Although we are very thankfull to our Russian friends that they allowed the reexport of Russian engines, but dont be surprised if the Chinese develop a better aircraft engine than the Russians ;). To sum it all up, the Chinese have relied extensively on the Russians for there defence needs in the past but now China has spend billions of dollars to improve its own domestic industry.

sir your point of view is right absolutely but building fighter aircraft is not about how much you spend take the example of indian LCA project they spent a fortune does the plane ever compare with the present flanker,eurofighter or rafale its no where close to it.
also why do you think US the EU going for joint design and production because in the future its impossible for a single country to produce quality product.look at the eu the jsf program for the us, the pakfa for the russians. if you think that china can achieve what the us and ussr did in 50 years in 10 years or so then you are mistaken sir.
no offence to the chinese people but sir just look at what the chinese people achieve in terms of technology that is comparable to the best in the world. and going by chinese education standards their r&d is not much on which i can bank on.
the fact is china is an economic powerhouse and they will use their economy to arm twist the west.
give the chinese a toy and they will make an exact or better copy of the original, ask them to design a toy they will end up with something not even comparable.:agree:

its a opinion of mine personally and some of my chinese friends here in moscow.:china:
 
sir your point of view is right absolutely but building fighter aircraft is not about how much you spend take the example of indian LCA project they spent a fortune does the plane ever compare with the present flanker,eurofighter or rafale its no where close to it.
also why do you think US the EU going for joint design and production because in the future its impossible for a single country to produce quality product.look at the eu the jsf program for the us, the pakfa for the russians. if you think that china can achieve what the us and ussr did in 50 years in 10 years or so then you are mistaken sir.
no offence to the chinese people but sir just look at what the chinese people achieve in terms of technology that is comparable to the best in the world. and going by chinese education standards their r&d is not much on which i can bank on.
the fact is china is an economic powerhouse and they will use their economy to arm twist the west.
give the chinese a toy and they will make an exact or better copy of the original, ask them to design a toy they will end up with something not even comparable.:agree:

its a opinion of mine personally and some of my chinese friends here in moscow.:china:

Hahaha brother cant argue about this that Chinese are master of reverse engineering :D. If you look at it, the Chinese have made their money worth. The development of J10, the Chinese bought flankers and produced an even better version of it J11B(its 70% Chinese). So you cant say that Chinese waster there money like the Indians did in case of LCA. As far as joint designs are concerned, the US developed F22 by itself and even for F35 they provided major funding. As far as what the Chinese can achieve, my friend J10 is an example right infront of you. The Westerners were laughing off the rumours about J10 because they never believed that China could develop it so fast. The Chinesse developed a 4.5 generation aircraft in 10 years, dont be surprised if they develop a 5th generation aircraft. Whether you accept the fact or not but China is quickly catching upto the Russians and the Americans. The Chinese are anxious to became a superpower and they will keep investing billions of dollars to improve there armed forces. Never underestimate the Chinese my friend, they introduced free market concept in the 80's and look how far they have come in terms of there economy. The same applies for there armed forces, they started spending heavily on there armed forces in the late 90's. Give them another 10 years and you will know how far the Chinese technology has come.
 
Hahaha brother cant argue about this that Chinese are master of reverse engineering :D. If you look at it, the Chinese have made their money worth. The development of J10, the Chinese bought flankers and produced an even better version of it J11B(its 70% Chinese). So you cant say that Chinese waster there money like the Indians did in case of LCA. As far as joint designs are concerned, the US developed F22 by itself and even for F35 they provided major funding. As far as what the Chinese can achieve, my friend J10 is an example right infront of you. The Westerners were laughing off the rumours about J10 because they never believed that China could develop it so fast. The Chinesse developed a 4.5 generation aircraft in 10 years, dont be surprised if they develop a 5th generation aircraft. Whether you accept the fact or not but China is quickly catching upto the Russians and the Americans. The Chinese are anxious to became a superpower and they will keep investing billions of dollars to improve there armed forces. Never underestimate the Chinese my friend, they introduced free market concept in the 80's and look how far they have come in terms of there economy. The same applies for there armed forces, they started spending heavily on there armed forces in the late 90's. Give them another 10 years and you will know how far the Chinese technology has come.

sir with due respect to the chinese people they hav really come a long way and they really are an economic super power already but i still dont think that the j-10 can match up to the modern flankers you can compare it to the su-27 not the su-35,the su-35 is a4++ generation<elements of 5th gen tech>
all the tech to be used on the pakfa are being tried on the su-35 and not even the best of chinese defence analyst can claim that its better than the most modern flanker.i do not have much details about the j-10 but soon i will get some copy and then i can compare it with the flanker.
the news coming out from the russian side is that the chinese aircraft are good. and provide a good value for money.dont believe the western media they always claim that whatever is not built by them is c-grade. so i will wait till the original j-10 is out the most modern flankers su35,su-33,su-37 are already out and by the time -j-10 is out we will have a new flanker model.
thanx
 
these are the su-35 details.


Wingspan: 15.3 m (50.2 ft)
Height: 5.90 m (19.4 ft)
Wing area: 62.0 m&#178; (667 ft&#178;)
Empty weight: 17,500 kg (38,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 25,300 kg (56,660 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
Powerplant: 2&#215; Saturn 117S with TVC nozzles turbofans
Dry thrust: 8,800 kgf[24] (86.3 kN, 19,400 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 14,500 kgf (142 kN, 31,900 lbf) each
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.25[20] (2,700 km/h,[23] 1,680 mph) at altitude
Range: 3,600 km (1,940 nmi) ; (1,580 km, 850 nmi near ground level)
Ferry range: 4,500 km (2,430 nmi) with external fuel tanks
Service ceiling 18,000 m (59,100 ft)
Rate of climb: >280 m/s (>55,100 ft/min)
Wing loading: 408 kg/m&#178; (84.9 lb/ft&#178;)
Thrust/weight: 1.1
Armament


1&#215; 30 mm GSh-30 cannon with 150 rounds
2&#215; wingtip rails for R-73 (AA-11 "Archer") air-to-air missiles or ECM pods
12&#215; wing and fuselage stations for up to 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance, including:
Air-to-Air Missiles
AA-12 Adder (R-77)
AA-11 Archer (R-73)
AA-10 Alamo (R-27)
Air-to-Surface Missiles
AS-17 Krypton (Kh-31)
AS-16 Kickback (Kh-15)
AS-10 Karen (Kh-25ML)
AS-14 Kedge (Kh-29)
AS-15 Kent (Kh-55)
AS-13 Kingbolt (Kh-59)
Bombs
KAB-500L
KAB-1500 laser/TV Guided Bomb
FAB-100/250/500/750/1000
Avionics
Passive phased antenna array.

now these are the available details of j-10

Crew: 1 (basic), 2 (trainer variant)[7]
Length: 15.5 m (50 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.7 m (31 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.78 m ()
Wing area: 39 m&#178; (419.8 ft&#178;)
Empty weight: 8,000&#8211;9,730 kg (17,637&#8211;21,451 lb[25])
Loaded weight: 18,500 kg (40,785 lb [26])
Useful load: 5,500 kg (9,920 lb[citation needed])
Max takeoff weight: 19,277 kg (42,500 lb[7])
Powerplant: 1&#215; Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN or Woshan WS-10A "Taihang" turbofan
Dry thrust: 79.43 kN / 89.17 kN (17,860 lbf / 20,050 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 122.5 kN[7] / 129.4 kN (27,557 lbf / 29,101 lbf)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 at altitude[7], Mach 1.2 at sea level[4]
g-limits: +9/-3 g (+88/-29 m/s&#178;, +290/-97 ft/s&#178;[4])
Combat radius:

On hi-lo-hi mission: 2,540 km (1,370 nautical miles) with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles [27]
On lo-lo-lo mission: 1,310 km (710 nautical miles with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles [28]
Maximum range (without refueling): 3,400 km (1,864 mi[7] ()
Service ceiling 20,000 m (65,600 ft[4])
Wing loading: 335 kg/m&#178; (64 lb/ft&#178;)
Minimum thrust/weight:
With afterburner: 0.98

Armament


Guns: 2&#215; 23 mm internal cannon
Hardpoints: 11, 3 under each wing and 5 under the fuselage
Missiles:
Air-to-air: PL-8, PL-9, PL-11, PL-12
Air-to-surface: PJ-9, YJ-9K, 90 mm unguided rocket launcher pods
Bombs: laser-guided bombs (LT-2), glide bombs (LS-6) and unguided bombs


lets see for ourself which is better moreover the chinese confessed to having problems with their inbuilt engines regarding the trust generated and also thrust vectoring,so they are using saturn engines al-31, the innbuilt aesa radar also has to do a makeover.
the su-35 says has PESA radar but recently RUSSIA has developed the AESA tech and are incorporating them into the su-35 and mig-35 < i provided the link and picture of the radar in another thread>
so noway the best of chinese tech is matching the slaviks .
 
Pak-Russia ties are growing faster than ever, its just a matter of time now that Russia will open its arms market for us. Cold war is over and we're living in a multi-polar world where most countries are opening up their markets to global buyers.

Russia supplied Mi-18 choppers to Pakistan, supplied 150 RF-93 engines for JF-17, allowed Ukrain to sell IL-78 Midas to PAF and there's a lot more going on with the FC-20 which is likely to have a Russian powerplant instead of a chinese one.
 
Pak-Russia ties are growing faster than ever, its just a matter of time now that Russia will open its arms market for us. Cold war is over and we're living in a multi-polar world where most countries are opening up their markets to global buyers.

Russia supplied Mi-18 choppers to Pakistan, supplied 150 RF-93 engines for JF-17, allowed Ukrain to sell IL-78 Midas to PAF and there's a lot more going on with the FC-20 which is likely to have a Russian powerplant instead of a chinese one.

They also supplied us with the MI-17 Helo's with built-in sling unit for Earthquake relief. Wouldn't be long before Pakistan and Russia carry out a military exercise.
 
bezerk I totally agree with you i think in the near future pakistan china, russia and india will be a part of one big family
 
thats not possible sir because mig corporation has a clause that whatever weapon it sold to india it cannot sell pakistan. and all of us know that india has all the variants ,kinds and type of mig planes that is built.:pakistan:

Except for the MiG 31......and the ZASLON that it carries. I heard from an Russian pilot that they were not allowed to switch it on on ground. Can you explain me why?:wave:
 
sir with due respect to the chinese people they hav really come a long way and they really are an economic super power already but i still dont think that the j-10 can match up to the modern flankers you can compare it to the su-27 not the su-35,the su-35 is a4++ generation<elements of 5th gen tech>
all the tech to be used on the pakfa are being tried on the su-35 and not even the best of chinese defence analyst can claim that its better than the most modern flanker.i do not have much details about the j-10 but soon i will get some copy and then i can compare it with the flanker.
the news coming out from the russian side is that the chinese aircraft are good. and provide a good value for money.dont believe the western media they always claim that whatever is not built by them is c-grade. so i will wait till the original j-10 is out the most modern flankers su35,su-33,su-37 are already out and by the time -j-10 is out we will have a new flanker model.
thanx

As far as J10 is concerned, just wait till Pakistan gets its hand on that plane. Pakistan will be getting J10B, i am sorry i am not in the liberty of going into detail about that plane but i can tell you one thing. J10B will be one of the best, if not the best 4.5 generation aircrafts(their is a reason why the Chinese and Pakistani officials are soo tight lipped about this project). Give it just one more year, once the details come out even you will be left surprised how capable J10B is. J10A was rejected by PAF outright, but J10B is what caught the attention of PAF and that is why it was purchased. My advice to you is that, JUST WAIT and you will know the capabilites of the Chinese.
P.S. At no point am i saying that J10B is a better machine than SU35. It would be really nice if we had a flanker in our arsenal ;)
 
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bezerk I totally agree with you i think in the near future pakistan china, russia and india will be a part of one big family

can this happen????:what:
if it is, then it ll best for people of Eurasia.
no more arm race and terrorism:enjoy::victory::yahoo:
 
can this happen????:what:
if it is, then it ll best for people of Eurasia.
no more arm race and terrorism:enjoy::victory::yahoo:



this arm race created by you indians in the region as far as terrorism i dont think so kashmir is making terorism it is freedom and what happened in mumbai it happens in pak every day
 
To the Mods&Administrators
No offence
Pak-Russia ties are growing faster than ever. Is that the reason we are seeing FIND YOUR RUSSIAN BEAUITY TODAY commercial advertisement on this website.
:chilli::chilli::rofl::rofl::smitten::rofl::pdf: ;)
 
I don't think Russia has forgotten what we did to them during Cold War...
 

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