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Why does our Navy fail so horribly?

IN ANSER

PAK fails its navy due to resources or more simply MONEY $$$

modern frigates cost $500m each

destroyers $1 billion

nuke subs $1 billion

aircraft carriers $3 billion

NAVY is a BIG COST GAME

Budget of $1 billion a year would barely cover wages and fue costs. for pakistan

Then again, the number of units is also different: you might buy 1 modern frigate or, say, some 10 modern jet fighter aircraft . You 12-24 aircraft for just a single squadron...
 
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Beggars-mobile_cartoon.jpg


Our Navy's situation is more of less like this - no funds but big talk:lol:


Sare Paisa Zardari kha giya
 
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Beggars-mobile_cartoon.jpg


Our Navy's situation is more of less like this - no funds but big talk:lol:


Sare Paisa Zardari kha giya

Although blaming any one won't going to solve anything. But I would suggest that if Navy has joined in with Chinese on Frigates, Corvettes, Mine hunters(Based on Corvettes), FACs and other Auxiliary/Tankers along with SSKs and may be SSBNs. This would give them the knowledge as well the equipment they require. Although besides JV they should have started working with on the third KE&SWs as well as developing the Ormara as their central Naval command with three mega shipyards that will going to help them in production as well in maintenance as well.
 
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Although blaming any one won't going to solve anything. But I would suggest that if Navy has joined in with Chinese on Frigates, Corvettes, Mine hunters(Based on Corvettes), FACs and other Auxiliary/Tankers along with SSKs and may be SSBNs. This would give them the knowledge as well the equipment they require. Although besides JV they should have started working with on the third KE&SWs as well as developing the Ormara as their central Naval command with three mega shipyards that will going to help them in production as well in maintenance as well.

yeah but you forgot to mention the fact your naval budget has not a chance in hell to support what you want mate.:)
 
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Yeah! Right I think the Saudi should look towards joining the SSKs program with Germany, a new one and may JV with Germany or Chinese on other Naval Projects as well.
 
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It's not about numbers. It's about quality. Most of Iran's military and civil transport infrastructure are outdated and go back to the Shah's time. You have to understand that a Navy is an organization, not a collection of fighting ships. If a boat is what comes to your mind first when you think of Navy or fighter jet when you think of air force you're perception is wrong. Defense organizations don't just depend on one type of vehicle, it's rather an infrastructure . Airforce relies more than just on fighter planes. They have transport aircraft, aircraft to carry jamming equipment etc. It's an organization and infrastructure.

Same for Navy. Pakistan had a modern fleet of Augusta subs. An advanced sea to sea harpoon missile stockpile including those than can carry nuclear warheads and an upcoming fleet of surveillance aircraft. It's about organization and infrastructure, which INCLUDES battleships but not restricted to those. Otherwise it wouldn't even be a navy.
 
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I do not know much about the relationship of Pakistan and Iran?Some bro can tell me?:pakistan::china:
 
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I think Iranian defensive capability is vastly overstated.

I think you should inform yourself with real facts and revise your statement.

I do not know much about the relationship of Pakistan and Iran?Some bro can tell me?:pakistan::china:

Brotherly.

compare Turkish and Iranian size of their coast versus ours

our Navy is a purely defensive force......if you look at inductions and procurements in the past decade, i'd say that we are at least on the right track. We have submarines, we have a navy aviation wing, we have the equivalent of the Seals; most crucially we are working on expanding our surface fleet.

of course the PN doesnt receive the same attention as its sister services --- but everything is done based on prioritization and cost-benefit. Doesnt mean that PN has been an ignored service, and most certainly doesnt mean that it ''fails'' on any accounts


with an adversary that is rapidly expanding its own navy, surely more attention will be given to it in the interest of maintaining a power balance in the immediate region....PN has no hegemonic or trans-regional designs at this time.


Well said, and there are these recent Submarine and surface ships deals with China .
 
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Rest assured, your assurances does not possess any assured value. Its like a fart in the wind. There is no "overly disturbed power balance"....if you want comparison...you ought to try comparing the Indian coast guard to the PN...rather than the IN....that might even the scales a bit.


Your arrogance sounds like the Israeli one, maybe you need a lesson to disinflate yourself.
Don't look for it, it will put India in a hole so deep you will need a hundred years or so to get back on your feet, if you still have feet.
 
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You cant buy a navy to suit your requirements. You have to build one.

You need a good industrial infrastructure for it and knowledge. Pakistan has realized it just a few years back and they are in the right track. It will take quite a few years to reach where you want the navy to be. So it is better to stay with fingers crossed rather than ranting about it.
 
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with an adversary that is rapidly expanding its own navy, surely more attention will be given to it in the interest of maintaining a power balance in the immediate region....PN has no hegemonic or trans-regional designs at this time.
Bro, the balance of power with India is an illusion. Pakistan has adopted the policy of 'minimum credible deterrence' due to very limited resources. Though it is true that Pakistani armed forces are currently in their best shape in decades.

But Pakistan counters Indian threat with strategic assets. It should be noted that India is also developing a limited ABM capability.

To maintain balance of power with India, Pakistan needs strong economy.
 
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We need to really start realizing the difference between reality and dreaming

@ Present Pakistan Navy is nothing more then a elaborated Coast Guard

We can only call ourselves a Sea Navy when we have 20 Frigates and Few Destroyers
 
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We need to really start realizing the difference between reality and dreaming

@ Present Pakistan Navy is nothing more then a elaborated Coast Guard

We can only call ourselves a Sea Navy when we have 20 Frigates and Few Destroyers

Azad Mia do you know how many countries actually have 20 Principle Surface combatants
Well Answer is 8
USA
China
Russia
Japan
France
India
U.K
Turkey

Yes I wrote them based on the number of Frigates and Destroyers they have
 
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Smaller forces always have to rely on guerilla tactics, modern warfare is increasingly relying on stealth. What we have in PN at any given time is sufficient to hold of IN in case of war as PN will be tasked with defence and IN will be tasked with offence. IN will have to take on PN in Pakistani water where modern sea mines will also play their part along with our subs.

Besides, if a war is thrust upon us, we might be able to 'lease' a few goodies from 'friendly' countries.
 
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Naval assets have always been most expensive units. It takes a lot of trained manpower and economic resources to operate and maintain a single warship than any other item in the army or the air force. Additionally one needs even more assets to safeguard naval assets. For example an aircraft carrier is sitting duck and needs a fleet of escorts for protection.
Other surface vessels such as cruisers and destroyers are vulnerable to mines, to air and submarine attacks and dedicated anti-aircraft frigates, minesweepers and anti-sub frigates/corvettes for protection.

However, one must have Navy to protect the sea lanes vital for receiving supplies and also to safeguard economic zones. Additionally navy is the only means thru which military power can be projected far beyond the country’s shores to safeguard national interests.
Pakistan has a relatively small shore line and unlike an island nation, has land route access to the military and oil supplies thru Iran, China and Afghanistan. Additionally, ever since the Midway battle o WW2, Naval Air Power is considered the deciding factor in the major conflicts at sea. Thus when defence are funds allocated; PN always comes last. In the light of the above, before we criticize PN, we have to ask ourselves did our Navy perform below expectations given the resource constraints.

Based upon 1971 showing, answer will be definitely yes. For example, was it prudent to send Ghazi on a wild goose chase to the Indian East coast and thus leave Karachi undefended? Why did we not foresee capabilities of the Ossa FAC and did not plan any counter measures? Why there was no air arm to speak of? This is probably down to the Defence High Command as well as calibre of the PN Command more than anything else.

I put down failure of the PN in 1971 to many factors, most of all incomptent leadership and manpower resource of Pakistan’s military machine in general and of the Navy in particular.

Don’t think we in Pakistan have the habit of an objective self-analysis and devising ways and means to make optimum use of our resources. A very minor incident such as bombing of Dwarka was made into a huge success story in 1965 giving a false sense of invincibility to an inefficient naval force. Indians learnt from the lessons of 1965 and took corrective measures. Whereas it appears that the nation has not learned anything from the debacle of 1971 be it regarding military or regarding politics.

In the place of the Bengalis, we are now targeting Shias. Do you think that Shias of Gilgit or the Hazara of Quetta or Shias of Parachinar can remain loyal to Pakistan when their members are dragged out of the busses and shot? The very sectarian parties now call themselves Defence of Pakistan Council! Defence against what?

On the other hand; despite the technological prowess of the US military demonstrated during the Abbottabad Osama incident, popular TV personalities such Zaid Hamid openly advocate fighting US and prophesize victory! Many of my naïve countrymen believe it totally forgetting what happened to Saddam with his invincible army.

What we lack is the top class human resource with foresight and with ability to realize what we can do and fortitude to accept what we cannot. Thus act in the best possible interest of the nation.

This applies to all branches of the military as well as the navy. The reason why PN failed was more to do with paucity of capable leadership and less with scarcity of the resources.

There has to be a paradigm shift in the national thinking, else Pakistan is going nowhere.
 
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