Why does Muslim world get beaten up by the west?

[FaujHistorian]

- Called muslims but our actions are not Islamic
- No unity internal fights
- low education
- Corrupt politicians and corrupt society
- Still slaves in our thought

See janab.

Aaap nay darya koozay main bund ker diya.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Let me at the outset add that Pakistan is a unique case. This is so because common Pakistani's are somewhat reluctant to believe that they are masters of their own destiny and their own land, they keep looking to Arab countries for guidance and inspiration. This is not just a simple case of Arab world being important to Islam, it is an acute issue in Pakistan. For example - Bangladesh, Turkey, Indonesia being as Muslim as Pakistan do not share this attribute with Pakistan. Iran as well, though that becomes a separate case altogether.

My thoughts are a little jumbled, so I request you to bear with me.

This is where you completely lost me.

Pakistanis accord a measure of respect to Arabs, that is true. But we do not look towards them for any guidance or anything. The problem is that you are conflating two different factors and I blame some extremist liberal PDF Pakistanis for helping spread a faulty narrative.

One factor is that Pakistanis have a longer exposure to GCC Arabs. We have some other overlaps in religious, cultural, social, and intellectual matters. These overlaps mask some natural trends which are misreported by motivated quarters.

Second and more important factor is the universal and natural practice of borrowing from a more affluent culture. Take a look at the pics:

Offa who was King of Mercia had these Dinars struck in his name. Notice the fake Arabic writing. The engraver evidently did not know Arabic or its script.

You can find more examples here: Pseudo-Kufic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

English Kings from middle ages were neither Muslims nor were they obsessed with identifying with Arabs. They were just demonstrating the natural practice of borrowing from a more affluent culture.

A more contemporary example from Pakistan is a Lahore number plate that spells Pakistan as Al-Bakistan - an illustration of the fact that unvoiced labial stop sound (p) does not exist in Arabic and is substituted by voiced labial stop sound (b). However, Punjab is spelled as Punjab, not Bunjab as an Arab might say:

Just from the number plate I can guess that the person who owns the car wishes it to be known that he or a close relative lives / lived in GCC Arab country and wants it to mark him as a person of some means. Uber liberals scream at this, but people like me can guess the real reason and the message implied. The proof is in the fact that I have never seen such vehicle number plate on an old or cheap vehicle or a motor-bike. Agendas make for shameless misinterpretations often enough and this here is an example.

This natural process has been distorted by Pakistani liberals to accord an unwarranted dimension to our relation with Arabs.

Most Pakistanis identify with Arabs for the reason of shared traits and values at some level. BUT we do not necessarily look up to them in any particular way. In fact we are all too eager to notice differences and emphasizing them. If you keep reading liberal narrative popular on online forums, then you can go on thinking that Pakistanis willingly accept a subservient position in slavish identification with Arabs. But that is certainly not the truth. In fact people of Brelvi persuasion, a majority in Pakistan, dislike Wahabist perspective of most GCC Arabs and thus think of poorly of them.

I've often seen Indians emphasize the faulty line of reasoning. It is perhaps comfortable to perpetuate certain stereotypes without investigation just because they sit so conveniently with certain world-view and collection of opinions.

I can tell you for a fact that Pakistani Muslims respect Arabs just for the simple reason that Our Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon him) was an Arab. There is no other reason apart from this. Some pious Muslims specifically make duas in Arabic for Arabs just because it is Sunnah. The rest of cultural exchange is just a natural process, nothing more nothing less.

 

[gambit]

A good post as is expected from you sir.

I would like to draw your attention to 'Asian Tiger' economies. These have only recently begun to generate hard scientific knowledge via research and spending. They focused first on economic development via improvement in technological know-how and its application in industry etc... As their economies grew they started to spend on scientific research to complement their importation of technological knowledge from Western countries. Now they have been spending on hard scientific research.

The push-pull dynamic that you explained so well is subservient to economic development, in my view. One can not expect an outdated cultural view to hold against an overwhelming tide. Need for economic development dictates primacy of technological (and scientific) advancement. Social stability demands respect for cultural values. So in a given society, one has to find a balance. The point of balance would be different in different societies and economies. Competition between states would push the importance of economy in this dynamic, hence my observation above.

Perhaps for modern day when there are disparities in economies, national wealth, and intellectual developments between countries.

If we speculate as to when this push-pull relationship began, may be with the advent of agriculture ? But then it begs the question as to who/what motivate the first nomadic hunter/gatherer tribes, wherever human beings lived, to decide for survival's sake that they had to settle down and produce their own food ? In the same speculation, would the plow be the first scientific invention ? With agriculture, came excess. With excess, came the need for accounting. With the need for accounting, came the need for abstract symbolism, aka mathematics and sophisticate languages, to convey ideas and to represent production. Inevitably, disputes about ownership arose, which led to the need for a legal system and its enforcement.

From a scientific perspective, it is a persuasive argument that despite being later in the chain of events and necessities, the development of abstract symbolism is man's greatest scientific achievement.

From an engineering perspective, it is a persuasive argument that the axle, not the wheel, is man's greatest engineering achievement.