Why do you accept Nagorno-Karabakh to be part of Azerbaijan, when you don't accept the State of Israel?

[hyperman]

You are telling open lies.
Nagorno-Karabakh was always an Armenian majority area.

you understand there is a difference between "Nagorno Karabakh" (gerrymandered district)and "Karabakh" right? Nagorno Karabakh was created by the Soviets/Russians out of the Karabakh region. i.e. it includes the surrounding disctricts(kalbajar, lachin, etc). either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are being deceptive and projecting on other people.

Ah you've found pro-Pashinyan Armenians! The ones I know are against him. Most Armenians hate him,but he has his loyal fanbase.

And a funny picture from the war:

View attachment 902028

@hyperman @Primus @Tomcats

Whats this picture have to do with anything? this supposed to some random twitter post taken to illustrate what exactly?

 

[Foinikas]

This is literally irredentism. You can't go around ethnically cleansing places b/c your ancestor lived there allegedly centuries ago. The basis for modern international law does not allow for such things. Right of Return in the post ww2 order does not work like that.

They didn't live once and then left. They kept living continuously for centuries for thousands of years there.
Right of return? Where was the right of return when Germans were kicked out of Eastern Prussia,Silesia,Pomerania? How does it work then? Where was the right of return when Palestinians were being evicted from their homes? What happened to all those Palestinians who had to flee their homes after the Naqba?

With regards to the west bank, there are families that can point out individual houses they originate from, and individual land deeds and papers, its not some people dude saying I'm 1/8 such and such ethnicity and apparently some people who have similar ethnicity to me may have lived her 500+ years ago, therefore its legitimate for me to show up randomly pick a plot of land and ethnically cleanse it and claim it, thats not how the law works.

 

[omegared]

the answer is clear on what Iran do and its neither

another nonsense from someone who don't knew what happened then

wrong in fact Azerbaijan used to be part of Iran not other way around , wonder what you learned of history in school
and now you want to explain their relation with Israel by Iran ? no matter the fact it's not Iran that make claim about Azerbaijan but other way around

well tribal and sectarian mindset


if your reason of your support is only because Iran is Muslim then I must say your reasoning is wrong

The anser is clear, You wont be on Pakistans side in the event of an India Pakistan war.
That's a crying Shame.

If we think you will side with the Indians, the same way you sided with the Armenians, during the next Indo Pak war,
We would be fools not to work with Azerbaijan and Saudi to take you out.
We don't because Iran is a Muslim country and has some support amongst us Pakistanis,
Despite huge amount of pressure from "others".

I know how the war played out, the Iranians sided with the Armenians, Iran provided them with supplies and weapons.

I believe in unity amongst Muslim nations, if you think that is tribal and sectarian then so be it,
But try telling that to the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and probably Iran soon,
When they come for Iran, you will be begging us for help and people like me will be on your side.

 

[Foinikas]

Whats this picture have to do with anything? this supposed to some random twitter post taken to illustrate what exactly?

It's a picture some Azeris were uploading as being Armenian,from the war. It's fun. A thing called humor

The anser is clear, You wont be on Pakistans side in the event of an India Pakistan war.
That's a crying Shame.

If we think you will side with the Indians, the same way you sided with the Armenians, during the next Indo Pak war,
We would be fools not to work with Azerbaijan and Saudi to take you out.
We don't because Iran is a Muslim country and has some support amongst us Pakistanis,
Despite huge amount of pressure from "others".

I know how the war played out, the Iranians sided with the Armenians, Iran provided them with supplies and weapons.

I believe in unity amongst Muslim nations, if you think that is tribal and sectarian then so be it,
But try telling that to the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and probably Iran soon,
When they come for Iran, you will be begging us for help and people like me will be on your side.

So if a Muslim country is on the wrong,another Muslim country must support it,just because it's Muslim?

 

[Lehrasap]

you understand there is a difference between "Nagorno Karabakh" (gerrymandered district)and "Karabakh" right? Nagorno Karabakh was created by the Soviets/Russians out of the Karabakh region. i.e. it includes the surrounding disctricts(kalbajar, lachin, etc). either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are being deceptive and projecting on other people.

View attachment 902044

You are again using deception and presenting a map of 1989, when Azerbaijan has already changed the demographics after controlling this area for decades.

It is the same that Israel take the illegal settlements in Palestine, and then show they are in majority in the Palestine too, and then take over the whole of Palestine too.

Your problem stayed the same ... when Iranians/Azeris/Turks occupy Armenian land and change the demographics, then it is Halal for you. But when Armenians take back their land, where they lived for thousands of years, then you declare it to be Haram.

 

[hyperman]

Where was the right of return when Germans were kicked out of Eastern Prussia,Silesia,Pomerania? How does it work then?

well actually they do have the right of return on an individual level, they can petition the state and return to those lands, though most don't care to do, for economic reasons, and b/c prospects elsewhere are better, what you don't get to do is ethnically cleanse the place change borders, that would be irredentism.

With regards to the palestinians, they also have this right under international law, the israelis are in violation of international law.

maybe if I explain it in another way, the armenians who lived in hadrut and elsewhere have a right of return, and azerbaijan has legal obligations to let them go home if they wish, what you don't have the right to do is ethnically cleanse kalbajar and lachin of the kurds and azeris living there and populate them with armenians from Lebanon.

 

[Lehrasap]

Since when we weren't clear about out stance? We're and always were honest...

LOL, we aren't destabilizing any nation to steal their resources. And you don't even know wtf is halal-haram. You're just blabbering...

Complain to UN...

Create your Jewish utopia elsewhere. NOT in Muslim land. Especially don't claim our 3rd holiest site.

Since when world loved us? Our prophets own family members tried to kill him when he started preaching Islam. We don't want to be loved. Please hate us more...

Hmm, your brain has defects. You took my comment out of context and vomited your Islamophobia.

BTW, we are Angels compared to Judeo-Christian lunatics. USA, Canada and Australia is standing on gigantic scale genocide of native population. Europeans are still destabilizing Africa with various assassinations and political engineering.

Don't point you finger at us. jews occupied our land and continuously killing Muslims with direct western Christians support. Blood must be repaid.

Don't care about Armenians that much...

We don't have to mr Islamophobe. Azeris are doing fine...

LOL, Christians are already supporting isreals killings for their holy crusade.

When time comes we will make sure their blood debt is repaid with interest. No worries.

LOL, india was always a hindu country with deep hatred for Muslims. Hindus are mouth fodding heathens...

And good luck with your Muslim genocide adventure. Our numbers are going up so you must be very desperate...

So, you want to continue with your so-called Islam "Might is Right" to genocide Armenians and take Western Armenia, but deny the same right to others.

With this behaviours, we can only say that only rod is the logic of the fools. And the fools have already started getting it in Myanmar and India and China. Gradually the whole world will go to the peak in hating this Jihadist mindset.

Thanks to humanity that the modern civilized world is not as barbaric as Muslims were, and when British defeated and captured Muslim countries, then they didn't made Muslims slave and didn't rape their women, like Muslims used to do after the victory.

The entire history of Muslims is filled with looting and raping captive women. And you want to bring back that same era once again. But it is not going to happen any more.

If you want to point out fingers towards Israel, then you have to start with the crime of Muslims too, which even happened in the recent past, like genocide of Armenians by Turkey in 1917 and capturing West Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh.
And if you say we have to go to UN for Turkey and Azerbaijan, then we will also tell you not to cry and go to UN for Palestine.

 

[hyperman]

I'm not sure what the point here if, but in this map the safavid areas were azeris, and now modern day armenia, so not sure what the point is.

 

[Foinikas]

I'm not sure what the point here if, but in this map the safavid areas were azeris, and now modern day armenia, so not sure what the point is.

The point is that this area was continuously inhabited by Armenians. You thought they lived there once in ancient times and left. No,they lived there continuously. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

maybe if I explain it in another way, the armenians who lived in hadrut and elsewhere have a right of return, and azerbaijan has legal obligations to let them go home if they wish, what you don't have the right to do is ethnically cleanse kalbajar and lachin of the kurds and azeris living there and populate them with armenians from Lebanon.

Yes and also what is not right to do is pogroms in Baku,but that's war. The Armenians see it as finally taking back their territory. The Azeris see it as losing "their" territory.

 

[hyperman]

The point is that this area was continuously inhabited by Armenians. You thought they lived there once in ancient times and left. No,they lived there continuously. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

ok first off I didn't say they didn't live there, though for the record, many of them migrated into those areas after the russians took it from Iran. But thats irrelevant to current international law.

the point I'm making is with regards to international law, and with regards to the surrounding areas that were ethnically cleansed in the post ww2 international order(which forms the basis of international law today). Current Azerbaijanis of the area are of mixed heritage namely caucasus albanians to took the dominant culture of surrounding empires(along with inter mixing), but that isn't relevant to international law, you can't just say ok, b/c people of a similar ethnicity lived here to me, I'm going to ethnically cleanse this area of the people of the other ethnicity and take it.

 

[Foinikas]

ok first off I didn't say they didn't live there, though for the record, many of them migrated into those areas after the russians took it from Iran. But thats irrelevant to current international law.

View attachment 902065

the point I'm making is with regards to international law, and with regards to the surrounding areas that were ethnically cleansed in the post ww2 international order(which forms the basis of international law today). Current Azerbaijanis of the area are of mixed heritage namely caucasus albanians to took the dominant culture of surrounding empires(along with inter mixing), but that isn't relevant to international law, you can't just say ok, b/c people of a similar ethnicity lived here to me, I'm going to ethnically cleanse this area of the people of the other ethnicity and take it.

"Current Azerbaijanis"?

Dude,Armenians lived in Armenia proper and NK oblast. Ok? There was a war. They managed to take parts between Armenia and NK Oblast,that also used to be part of the centuries-old Armenian homeland. And where Armenians lived for many centuries until Azeris populated that area. The united that part with Armenia proper.

I'm not saying it's good or bad that they kicked the Azeri population out,but that's what happened. You're stuck repeating "international law,international law".

That's how things are. They regained parts of old Armenia during the war. Now they lost most of it.

 

[Ssan]

So, you want to deny genocides and deportation of Armenians by Muslims while Shah Abbas left 20% Armenians there?
It is like questioning why India has left Kashmir to be Muslim majority still and why it does not kick out or kill all Kashmiris to make it a pure Hindu area again.
Go and read history how 20% Armenians were necessary for economy of that area and the Muslim colonial powers wanted to make money.

Yerevan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Shah Abbas I of Persia who ruled between 1588 and 1629, ordered the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Armenians including citizens from Yerevan to mainland Persia. As a consequence, Yerevan significantly lost its Armenian population who had declined to 20%, while Muslims including Persians, Turks, Kurds and Tatars gained dominance with around 80% of the city's population. Muslims were either sedentary, semi-sedentary, or nomadic. Armenians mainly occupied the Kond neighbourhood of Yerevan and the rural suburbs around the city. However, the Armenians dominated over various professions and trade in the area and were of great economic significance to the Persian administration.[55]


You have to bring your proof that Russians or Armenians did any genocide of Muslims in that area during that period.
Russia brought the original displaced people of Armenia back to those areas, which brought Armenian population to become a majority.

Yerevan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Russians sponsored the resettlement process of the Armenian population from Persia and Turkey. Due to the resettlement, the percentage of the Armenian population of Yerevan increased from 28% to 53.8%.

The population of Yerevan under Muslim rule was tiny (only about 29000). Muslims displaced the original population, but were themselves unable to populate that area on a big scale.

And then in 1917, after the Turkish genocide in Western Armenia, again thousands of Armenian fled to Yerevan.

Yerevan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

At the time, Yerevan received more than 75,000 refugees from Western Armenia, who escaped the massacres perpetrated by the Ottoman Turks during the Armenian genocide.

No wonder that few thousand Muslim population disappeared during that period, while they were only the rulers and didn't have much skills to survive. In short, there is no historical record present of any genocide of that tiny Muslim population.


We don't want you assumptions, but proofs.
Yes, Armenians didn't accept Islam on mass level, and that 80% happened due to the genocides and deportation of local Armenians, as has been recorded in the history books and I provided you with the links. You just have to read them, in order to come out of your fantasy conjectures.

All bs historical revisionism.

Numbers don’t lie.

Fact: Muslims ruled what is Armenia for over a thousand years continuous rule. It changed hands between Muslim empires from 700s to mid-1800s when the Russians took it.

Fact: Armenia became Muslim majority according to most historians around the 13th-14th century. This includes both converts as it does everywhere else in the Muslim world and some immigrants too. Genetic studies prove this fact.

Fact: there was no genocide against armenia. If there was, you wouldn’t have 20% population Christian. If shah Abbas moved Armenians in the 17th century for a decade, they moved right back after he died and you had a more reasonable safdavid ruler. it didn’t affect the population demographics anyways.

Fact: the entire caucus was Muslim majority until the Russians arrived. They committed numerous documented genocides in the area (read: Circassian genocide / tatars genoicide / Chechnya / Dagestan and yes Armenia as example.)

Fact: Armenians volunteered in Russian army in large numbers to kill Muslims or drive them out of their lands. This is true all the way to Van. Read about the rebellion at Van.

Fact: after Russian takeover of Armenia, Muslim population went from over 80% to 0% in 50-100 years. Your hypothesis that they left just because they were incompetent is just straight up racism. Not worthy of a reply.

Numbers prove my case. Numbers don’t lie. Sorry.

 

[Foinikas]

Fact: Armenia became Muslim majority according to most historians around the 13th-14th century. This includes both converts as it does everywhere else in the Muslim world and some immigrants too. Genetic studies prove this fact.

Fact: Armenian principalities retained autonomy in various degrees throughout the centuries. This "Armenia became Muslim majority" comment is invalid,because Armenian territory was bigger and different back then. Which Armenia are you talking about? There were several Armenian dynasties that ruled,either sovereign or as vassals or even as autonomous principalities.



Again,check this out:

Fact: there was no genocide against armenia. If there was, you wouldn’t have 20% population Christian. If shah Abbas moved Armenians it didn’t affect the population demographics anyways.

What kind of trash are you reading? Obscure conspiracy theory writers and ultranationalist Turkish "authors"? MMM-E is a fan of the same narrative.

The Armenian and Greek genocides not only happened,but they are documented and terrible. My own grandfather,like I've said before,was a survivor of the massacre of his village. The whole place was wiped out. I've got Armenian friends whose families suffered the same. How do you think a big deal of Armenians ended up in Lebanon and Russia?

 

[Hack-Hook]

No Iran was not neutral , it was clearly on the side of Armenia.
I followed the war and the role of Iran was clear
Your statement is nothing but Iranian propaganda.
Its all Turkeys fault and you stopped genocide and took the moral high ground. no one apart from Iranian's is buying this.
Iran supplied the Armenians with weapons and supplies during the war.

First Turkiye not Turkey
and second how exactly Iran was on Armenia side .
are you aware that war was after 8 year of iran-iraq war , we were rebuilding , we even could not produce tank shell , the only weapon we were producing was some bullets and some artillery rockets ?

please if possible provide us with a list of Iran military aid to Armenia ?
you see you can't , the Armenia and Azerbaijan had access to Russia mercenaries and military equipment remained from USSR (Azerbaijan more as they had fixed wing aircraft while Armenia lacked them )

and if you want to deny Azerbaijan and Turkiye plan to put Armenia under siege in middle of winter then that show you knew nothing . and probably you want deny it was Iran who provided relief for Azerbaijani Refugee not Turkiye

 

[Foinikas]

Fact: the entire caucus was Muslim majority until the Russians arrived. They committed numerous documented genocides in the area (read: Circassian genocide / tatars genoicide / Chechnya / Dagestan and yes Armenia as example.)

You really insist on doing this? Because you won't like the replies. Apparently,Ottomans and Azeris have had their more than fair share of genocide in the area.