Why do you accept Nagorno-Karabakh to be part of Azerbaijan, when you don't accept the State of Israel?

[Lehrasap]

It was Armenian land for thousands of years.
It were Armenians who were living there.

And the British is not the only colonial power, but it were also Iran and Turkey who captured Armenia and then declared Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan, and ruled there through their puppet Governor. And then Russia took over the colonial role.

And then finally came UN, who was in its infancy, and accepted the things in the light of resolutions that were passed by its member states (i.e. the colonial powers in this case).

Armenians were also protesting and making struggles against it, They never accepted this solution. But Muslim States all together accepted this resolution of colonial powers.

Hell, even the Palestinian government also accept Nagorno-Karabakh to be a part of Azerbaijan.

Nevertheless, when this same UN, also passed a resolution for the creation of the state of Israel, then these same Muslim States were not ready to accept it.

Is it not Double Standards of Muslims?

Actually, Turkey also did a genocide of Armenians in 1915 and took the whole Western Armenian. Today it is a part of Turkey and Muslims also happily accept it. This is also one of the reasons that Turkey supports the capture of Armenian lands by Azerbaijan.

If you gladly play might is right for your own advantages, then someone other stronger than you will also come, and he will also play might is right with you too.

Israel is playing this same game of might is right with Arabs now. I don't think Arabs and Muslim states have any right to cry crocodile tears now.

 

[Maira La]

, but it were also Iran and Turkey who captured Armenia and then declared Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan,

Wasn’t it Stalin who made Nagorno-Karabakh part of Azerbaijan?

 

[villageidiot]

It was Armenian land for thousands of years.
It were Armenians who were living there.

And the British is not the only colonial power, but it were also Iran and Turkey who captured Armenia and then declared Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan, and ruled there through their puppet Governor. And then Russia took over the colonial role.

And then finally came UN, who was in its infancy, and accepted the things in the light of resolutions that were passed by its member states (i.e. the colonial powers in this case).

Armenians were also protesting and making struggles against it, They never accepted this solution. But Muslim States all together accepted this resolution of colonial powers.

Hell, even the Palestinian government also accept Nagorno-Karabakh to be a part of Azerbaijan.

Nevertheless, when this same UN, also passed a resolution for the creation of the state of Israel, then these same Muslim States were not ready to accept it.

Is it not Double Standards of Muslims?

Actually, Turkey also did a genocide of Armenians in 1915 and took the whole Western Armenian. Today it is a part of Turkey and Muslims also happily accept it. This is also one of the reasons that Turkey supports the capture of Armenian lands by Azerbaijan.

If you gladly play might is right for your own advantages, then someone other stronger than you will also come, and he will also play might is right with you too.

Israel is playing this same game of might is right with Arabs now. I don't think Arabs and Muslim states have any right to cry crocodile tears now.

not aware of the dynamics of the nagorno karabakh region, nor a big fan of the Pakistan-Azerbaijan iron brother rhetoric a lot of dumb people here have, but come back to me when azerbaijan taints the drinking water, besieges the entire region, bombs civilian buildings at will, arrests armenian 3 year olds etc etc. I don't think i need to go on.

 

[Lehrasap]

Wasn’t it Stalin who made Nagorno-Karabakh part of Azerbaijan?

He kept the Status Co.
Nagorno-Karabakh was made part of Azerbaijan before him.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

not aware of the dynamics of the nagorno karabakh region, nor a big fan of the Pakistan-Azerbaijan iron brother rhetoric a lot of dumb people here have, but come back to me when azerbaijan taints the drinking water, besieges the entire region, bombs civilian buildings at will, arrests armenian 3 year olds etc etc. I don't think i need to go on.

You don't know their zionist system (Azerbayjan). Aliyev regime is asking for it.

 

[hyperman]

Right of Return, is why its not a valid comparison. btw, the Palestinians hold deeds to the lands that they were ethnically cleansed from and they can point out the houses still standing today that their grandparents were kicked out from, right of return is enshrined in international law. not to mention the condition that Israel was admitted into the UN stipulated that they allow the people they ethnically cleansed to go back to their homes, something the Israelis never obliged.

this "Nagorno Karabagh" situation is misleading, b/c before the ethnic cleansing started in late 80s early 90s in the first war, the surrounding regions were overwhelmingly Azeri.

These Maps below give more details on the situation.

https://i.redd.it/a773rtoh6tr51.jpg

https://i.redd.it/7jwn1lu3ret51.jpg

secondly this whole "stalin gave karabagh to azerbaijan" narrative is false. What stalin did ironically was something pro armenian, he carved out a gerrymandered district inside karabakh which would have an armenian majority, and created "nagorno karabakh", something like this was never given to majority Azeri areas inside Armenia. this idea that somehow the Soviets and the Russians were pro Turkish, is absurd.


also even in the gerrymandered district that the soviets gave to the armenians, it was still around 1/3 azeri. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Nagorno_Karabakh_Ethnic_Map_1989.png

not aware of the dynamics of the nagorno karabakh region

see maps attached with sources.

 

[Lehrasap]

Right of Return, is why its not a valid comparison. btw, the Palestinians hold deeds to the lands that they were ethnically cleansed from and they can point out the houses still standing today that their grandparents were kicked out from, right of return is enshrined in international law. not to mention the condition that Israel was admitted into the UN stipulated that they allow the people they ethnically cleansed to go back to their homes, something the Israelis never obliged.

So, you are changing the discussion from ACCEPTANCE of the CREATION of the State of Israel to a later occurring issue, i.e. the right to return.

But you first have to openly agree to the creation of Israel.

this "Nagorno Karabagh" situation is misleading, b/c before the ethnic cleansing started in late 80s early 90s in the first war, the surrounding regions were overwhelmingly Azeri.

Again you are playing a game of deception.

You are directly jumping to 1990s, while the problem started with the colonization of Nagorno-Karabakh and making it a part of Azerbaijan. It was only then that Azeri were sent there to be settled, otherwise earlier it was 99% Armenian.

It is the same like China now sending Chinese people to Uyghur areas and changing the demographics.
Muslims condemn China for that, but these same Muslims support the same act when it was done by Turkic Muslim Azeris.

 

[hyperman]

So, you are changing the discussion from ACCEPTANCE of the CREATION of the State of Israel to a later occurring issue, i.e. the right to return.

But you first have to openly agree to the creation of Israel.

I don't care about states, I care about right of return. don't misrepresent what I said.

secondly I am not playing a "game of deception", the current conflict is from the 90s, which is why I linked it. not to mention the international order as we know it with regards to international law and right of return is based on the post ww2 order and before the dissolution of the soviet union, things were largely harmonious and people lived side by side, so I didn't feel the need to mention anything, not that those areas and their demographics are all that different even before the soviet union.

Btw here is the earliest demographics survey done of the areas, done by the Russians in the 1800s. its not to far removed from when the russians took these lands from the Iranians. Brown is armenians, light green is azeri.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_%281880_%D0%B3.%29..jpg/800px-%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_%281880_%D0%B3.%29..jpg

 

[Ssan]

I don't care about states, I care about right of return. don't misrepresent what I said.

secondly I am not playing a "game of deception", the current conflict is from the 90s, which is why I linked it. not to mention the international order as we know it with regards to international law and right of return is based on the post ww2 order and before the dissolution of the soviet union, things were largely harmonious and people lived side by side, so I didn't feel the need to mention anything, not that those areas and their demographics are all that different even before the soviet union.

Btw here is the earliest demographics survey done of the areas, done by the Russians in the 1800s. its not to far removed from when the russians took these lands from the Iranians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_%281880_%D0%B3.%29..jpg/800px-%D0%AD%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_%281880_%D0%B3.%29..jpg

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You are also playing a game jumping past to the 20th century and ignoring how the Russians changed the demographic reality of this region. Used to be majority Muslim, including Yerevan, until Russian empire took the region and with Armenian volunteers genocided the Muslims of the region. Armenians are as guilty of genocide as the Turks are.

 

[tower9]

My sympathies are with Armenia on this one but at the same time they’ve shot themselves in the foot a good number of times which have led them to their current predicament.

 

[Foinikas]

not aware of the dynamics of the nagorno karabakh region, nor a big fan of the Pakistan-Azerbaijan iron brother rhetoric a lot of dumb people here have, but come back to me when azerbaijan taints the drinking water, besieges the entire region, bombs civilian buildings at will, arrests armenian 3 year olds etc etc. I don't think i need to go on.

If you want me to tell you about Azeri crimes,take a seat bhai

 

[Hack-Hook]

If you want me to tell you about Azeri crimes,take a seat bhai

well Azeri crimes are deep and you can write books about them, but Armenian also are not blameless and they did some serious shit 30 years ago when they defeated Azerbaijan

 

[Foinikas]

well Azeri crimes are deep and you can write books about them, but Armenian also are not blameless and they did some serious shit 30 years ago when they defeated Azerbaijan

The majority of crimes for more than a century are on the Azeri side.

The stupidity though,is people who support Azerbaijan just because Azeris are Muslims and they go like "Karabagh is Azerbaijan! We are brothers!".

Meanwhile,they ignore the fact that Artsakh (NKR) had been part of the Armenian heartland for thousands of years. They also hate Israel,but ignore the fact that Azerbaijan's got great relations with it.

 

[hyperman]

Meanwhile,they ignore the fact that Artsakh (NKR) had been part of the Armenian heartland for thousands of years.

What heartland?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Этнографическая_карта_Кавказского_края_(1880_г.)..jpg/800px-Этнографическая_карта_Кавказского_края_(1880_г.)..jpg

The stupidity though,is people who support Azerbaijan just because Azeris are Muslims and they go like "Karabagh is Azerbaijan! We are brothers!".

and you respond with a christians good, evil muslims bad narrative, with Greeks deciding, "Artsakh is Armenia! We Are Brothers!" pot calling kettle black.

 

[Lehrasap]

You are also playing a game jumping past to the 20th century and ignoring how the Russians changed the demographic reality of this region. Used to be majority Muslim, including Yerevan, until Russian empire took the region and with Armenian volunteers genocided the Muslims of the region. Armenians are as guilty of genocide as the Turks are.

It is pure evil from you that you jumped to 18th century Russian Rule and forgot what Turks and Iranians did to Armenia for centuries.

Yes, Turks and Iranians were busy in doing genocide of Armenians for centuries. And it was only the result of that killings that Muslim population of Yerevan reached to 80%, leaving only 20% Armenians alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerevan

Shah Abbas I of Persia who ruled between 1588 and 1629, ordered the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Armenians including citizens from Yerevan to mainland Persia. As a consequence, Yerevan significantly lost its Armenian population who had declined to 20%, while Muslims including Persians, Turks, Kurds and Tatars gained dominance with around 80% of the city's population.


And before Shah Abbas, for centuries Amir Taimur and other Turkish kings were busy in capturing and killing Armenians. You can read this long history in this article too.

And there was no Genocide by Armenians. You have again lied here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerevan

After 3 centuries of Iranian occupation, Yereven along with the rest of Eastern Armenia designated as the "Armenian Oblast", became part of the Russian Empire, a period that would last until the collapse of the Empire in 1917. The Russians sponsored the resettlement process of the Armenian population from Persia and Turkey. Due to the resettlement, the percentage of the Armenian population of Yerevan increased from 28% to 53.8%.