Why do people in subcontinent marry cousins?

[Hyde]

Whatever is religously not forbidden. There is nothing wrong in it.

Simple

 

[qsaark]

Now coming back to Pakistanis, it's a shame! A shame a guy claims to be an assistant professor with post-doc experience, a PhD and other degrees, and yet posts absolute non-sense about marrying cousins being a safe biological practice. What's actually interesting about this thing though is that, several peopel have thanked this guy! Why? Because he reinforces their beliefs!?

How the Mods deal with you on insulting a member of this forum is I leave on them.

Assistant Professor saab, why don't you give me some scientific papers that disproves that marrying first cousins is no biggie.[prinited in a scientific journal, peer reviewed and critiqued; I am sure you know the whole process since you have a PhD+post-doc+professorship].

Of course I know the whole process (myself have published 22 papers in Journals of international repute) and following is the reference:

“It's Ok, We're Not Cousins by Blood”: The Cousin Marriage Controversy in Historical Perspective

Diane B Paul and Hamish G Spencer*

About the Authors: Diane B. Paul is Professor Emerita, Department of Political Science, University of Massachusetts Boston, Boston, Massachusetts and Research Associate, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts, United States of America. Hamish G. Spencer is Professor, Allan Wilson Centre for Molecular Ecology and Evolution, National Research Centre for Growth and Development, Department of Zoology, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.

PLoS Biol. 2008 December; 6(12): e320.
Published online 2008 December 23. doi: 10.1371/journal.pbio.0060320.

"Scientists at the University of Massachusetts in Boston have called for the taboo on first-cousin families to be lifted.

They claim that the risk of giving birth to babies with genetic defects is no greater than that run by women over 40 who become pregnant.

First-cousin marriages are legal in the UK but there have been calls to ban the practice because of the number of genetic defects recorded in some communities.

Professor Diane Paul of the University of Massachusetts in Boston and Professor Hamish Spencer of the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand have looked at the risk of defects in such babies.

They claim that the risk of congenital defects is about 2 per cent higher that average, and the infant mortality rate about 4.4 per cent higher, for babies born to first-cousin marriages.

This is on a par with the risk to babies born to women over 40, they claim.

Professor Spencer said: "Women over the age of 40 have a similar risk of having children with birth defects and no one is suggesting they should be prevented from reproducing."

The study is published in the online journal Public Library of Science.

MP Phil Woolas, now the Immigration minister, claimed earlier this year that first-cousin marriages within Asian communities in Britain resulted in an increasing number of children with health problems.

Most states in America have either outlawed or restricted the practice, as has China, Taiwan and both North and South Korea.

Professor Spencer, an evolutionary zoologist, said these laws should be repealed, especially in America, where he said they were drafted in a way that discriminated against the rural poor and immigrants.

He said: "Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny.

"Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity.

"There is no scientific grounding for it."

Source: Marriages between cousins is fine, say scientists - Telegraph

 

[amoverlord]

[COLOR=\\\"Red\\\"]How the Mods deal with you on insulting a member of this forum is I leave on them.[/COLOR]

Of course I know the whole process (myself have published 22 papers in Journals of international repute) and following is the reference:

[SIZE=\\\"3\\\"]“It\\\'s Ok, We\\\'re Not Cousins by Blood”: The Cousin Marriage Controversy in Historical Perspective[/SIZE]

Diane B Paul and Hamish G Spencer*

About the Authors: [COLOR=\\\"Gray\\\"]Diane B. Paul is Professor Emerita, Department of Political Science, University of Massachusetts Boston, Boston, Massachusetts and Research Associate, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts, United States of America. Hamish G. Spencer is Professor, Allan Wilson Centre for Molecular Ecology and Evolution, National Research Centre for Growth and Development, Department of Zoology, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.[/COLOR]

PLoS Biol. 2008 December; 6(12): e320.
Published online 2008 December 23. doi: 10.1371/journal.pbio.0060320.

\\\"Scientists at the University of Massachusetts in Boston have called for the taboo on first-cousin families to be lifted.

They claim that the risk of giving birth to babies with genetic defects is no greater than that run by women over 40 who become pregnant.

First-cousin marriages are legal in the UK but there have been calls to ban the practice because of the number of genetic defects recorded in some communities.

Professor Diane Paul of the University of Massachusetts in Boston and Professor Hamish Spencer of the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand have looked at the risk of defects in such babies.

They claim that the risk of congenital defects is about 2 per cent higher that average, and the infant mortality rate about 4.4 per cent higher, for babies born to first-cousin marriages.

This is on a par with the risk to babies born to women over 40, they claim.

Professor Spencer said: \\\"Women over the age of 40 have a similar risk of having children with birth defects and no one is suggesting they should be prevented from reproducing.\\\"

The study is published in the online journal Public Library of Science.

MP Phil Woolas, now the Immigration minister, claimed earlier this year that first-cousin marriages within Asian communities in Britain resulted in an increasing number of children with health problems.

Most states in America have either outlawed or restricted the practice, as has China, Taiwan and both North and South Korea.

Professor Spencer, an evolutionary zoologist, said these laws should be repealed, especially in America, where he said they were drafted in a way that discriminated against the rural poor and immigrants.

He said: \\\"Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny.

\\\"Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity.

\\\"There is no scientific grounding for it.\\\"

Source: Marriages between cousins is fine, say scientists - Telegraph

interesting......can u please post a few more.....
women over 40 years(even thirtyfive in some cases),should avoid getting pregnant as the child will have higher risk of having several disorders.......

even,, if the level of risk is no greater then 40 years woman having children....none the less \"there is risk\"....nobody would want there children to have any disease if they can help it....
so i personally think that marriage within family,should be discouraged...incidences of diseases like hemophilia will certainly decrease if people refrain from marriage within family......

 

[qsaark]

interesting......can u please post a few more.....
women over 40 years(even thirty in some cases),should avoid getting pregnant as the child will have higher risk of having several disorders.......

even,, if the level of risk is no greater then 40 years woman having children....none the less \"there is risk\"....nobody would want there children to have any disease if they can help it....
so i personally think that marriage within family,should be discouraged...incidences of diseases like hemophilia will certainly decrease if people refrain from marriage within family......

I certainly can but you would not get convinced because in a series of my posts I have already tried to explain it scientifically with examples but to no avail. If work from eminent Scientists from MIT can not convince you, than nothing can. Superstitiousness and Science never go hand in hand and if you want to learn something from Science, sack your superstitiousness first, which, judging from your reluctance, you most probably wont.

And for rest of your assumptions of 'risk nonetheless', its is not that kids with genetic disorders do not born to Americans or the people who marry outside the family. Among Hindus who overwhelmingly do not marry to their first or even distant cousins, no genetic disorders are found? Again, above mentioned article has discussed it all elegantly, either you did not read it, or couldn't sack your bias in favor of scientific findings, in either case, I cant be of any help.

I am not preaching people to go for first-cousin-marriage, but if they want to, there is no scientific basis (other than isolated studies here and there) that would or should prevent them to do so.

 

[amoverlord]

I certainly can but you would not get convinced because in a series of my posts I have already tried to explain it scientifically with examples but to no avail. If work from eminent Scientists from MIT can not convince you, than nothing can. superstitiousness and Science never go hand in hand and if you want to learn something from Science, sack your superstitiousness first, which, judging from your reluctance, you most probably wont.

And for rest of your assumptions of \'risk nonetheless\', its is not that kids with genetic disorders do not born to Americans or the people who marry outside the family. Among Hindus who overwhelmingly do not marry to their first or even distant cousins, no genetic disorders are found? Again, above mentioned article has discussed it all elegantly, either you did not read it, or couldn\'t sack your bias in favor of scientific findings, in either case, I cant be of any help. I am not preaching people to go for first-cousin-marriage, but if they want to, their is no scientific basis that would prevent them to do so.

sir,
firstly,i am not superstitious....secondly,i am not saying that genetic disorders can only occur in case of inter family marriages(there r other factors too),i am just saying that they r more susceptible to few diseases....or do u disagree that refraining from marriages within family can curb the incidences of diseases like hemophila,christmas disease,color blindness,agammaglobulinemia,fragile x syndrome n such......these r common x linked recessive dosorders...there occurrence will certainly go down.......

ps. some hindus also marry there cousins......
i\'m not here to prove u wrong,nor i\'m a hardliner....if u have some new information regarding the matter i\'ll be happy to know new things....

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

How the Mods deal with you on insulting a member of this forum is I leave on them.

Of course I know the whole process (myself have published 22 papers in Journals of international repute) and following is the reference:

“It's Ok, We're Not Cousins by Blood”: The Cousin Marriage Controversy in Historical Perspective

Diane B Paul and Hamish G Spencer*

About the Authors: Diane B. Paul is Professor Emerita, Department of Political Science, University of Massachusetts Boston, Boston, Massachusetts and Research Associate, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts, United States of America. Hamish G. Spencer is Professor, Allan Wilson Centre for Molecular Ecology and Evolution, National Research Centre for Growth and Development, Department of Zoology, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.

PLoS Biol. 2008 December; 6(12): e320.
Published online 2008 December 23. doi: 10.1371/journal.pbio.0060320.

"Scientists at the University of Massachusetts in Boston have called for the taboo on first-cousin families to be lifted.

They claim that the risk of giving birth to babies with genetic defects is no greater than that run by women over 40 who become pregnant.

First-cousin marriages are legal in the UK but there have been calls to ban the practice because of the number of genetic defects recorded in some communities.

Professor Diane Paul of the University of Massachusetts in Boston and Professor Hamish Spencer of the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand have looked at the risk of defects in such babies.

They claim that the risk of congenital defects is about 2 per cent higher that average, and the infant mortality rate about 4.4 per cent higher, for babies born to first-cousin marriages.

This is on a par with the risk to babies born to women over 40, they claim.

Professor Spencer said: "Women over the age of 40 have a similar risk of having children with birth defects and no one is suggesting they should be prevented from reproducing."

The study is published in the online journal Public Library of Science.

MP Phil Woolas, now the Immigration minister, claimed earlier this year that first-cousin marriages within Asian communities in Britain resulted in an increasing number of children with health problems.

Most states in America have either outlawed or restricted the practice, as has China, Taiwan and both North and South Korea.

Professor Spencer, an evolutionary zoologist, said these laws should be repealed, especially in America, where he said they were drafted in a way that discriminated against the rural poor and immigrants.

He said: "Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny.

"Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity.

"There is no scientific grounding for it."

Source: Marriages between cousins is fine, say scientists - Telegraph

CJO - Abstract - The failure of a scientific critique: David Heron, Karl Pearson and Mendelian eugenics


That paper isn't even considered scientific by the REAL scientific community! =D

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

@pakistani atheist

you start a thread claiming that all people from the indian sub continent prefer to marry their cousins. this is wrong and the thread must have told you as much already.

and then you get angry because indians, who dont follow your assumption give you reasons as they know best. marrying cousins is considered incest in our country except for a few cases. we dont have an authoritative religious book on why it is considered so. the closest institution to this is the gotra system which we have told you about. also read up a little more about the social institutions you are talking about. it was mentioned in this very thread that a couple needs to be separated by 7 generations on the paternal side and 5 on the maternal side. this is followed , maybe not as strictly but it is ensured atleast that none of the parents of the couple have/had the surname.

if you act like a 'jackass' and dont read up and feel being played like one, we cant help it. there have been enough pointers for you to follow and get the information you seek

i already gave examples where the gotra system has been changed, like gujrat where you cant even marry within your village. similarly a very large variety exists under the gotra system and just depending on wiki wont be a good idea. as is such social institutions of the subcontinent are not well studied or documented by the western sources.

I never claimed that EVERYONE in subcontinent marries cousins, all I asked was "why people do". A foolish mistake does not have to be committed by EVERY single citizen to be pointed out. South Indians do that right? And what percentage of Indian populace is South Indian? I would consider it a good chunk.

Even during the lunch today, I broached this topic and my co-worker [from South India] pointed out how MANY MANY relatives and friendws of his are married to their mom's sister's daughter etc. Infact, he told me that, the relatives get POSITIVELY OFFENDED, when you seek external alliances when a cousin is ready!

Considering the prevalence of this wretched/barbaric/unscientific practice, is it wrong to ask this question?

 

[Hyde]

add a poll in this thread to see if the marriage with cousins good or bad? OK or not OK

I will vote for OK.............. but won't marry in my family

 

[SekrutYakhni]

add a poll in this thread to see if the marriage with cousins good or bad? OK or not OK

I will vote for OK.............. but won't marry in my family

I fully support it bhai!


Please add a poll!

 

[amoverlord]

add a poll in this thread to see if the marriage with cousins good or bad? OK or not OK

I will vote for OK.............. but won\'t marry in my family

zaki bhai sahab......
its definitely ok.....lekin agar puche good or bad toh....bad

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I am not an expert on this topic but I will share an example of my family with you guys.

My aunt's (mami) family has a complex history of cousin marriage. Cousin marriage is going on for couple of generations on her side. Now when she married my uncle (mamu) which is out of the family... had a third child (my cousin) who is abnormal

Our family friends have a cousin marriage history (over generations) and their children are not abnormal but they have several diseases.

I don't know if it is because of the cousin marriages over time but "cousin marriage" is common there.

I believe excess of everything is bad.
Similarly, excess of cousin marriage "may" create some genetic problems.

I am not done reading qsaark posts as he is professional..so I don't know the genetic side of the story..

Rest, anyone can be abnormal...

 

[FreekiN]

I am not an expert on this topic but I will share an example of my family with you guys.

My aunt's (mami) family has a complex history of cousin marriage. Cousin marriage is going on for couple of generations on her side. Now when she married my uncle (mamu) which is out of the family... had a third child (my cousin) who is abnormal

Our family friends have a cousin marriage history (over generations) and their children are not abnormal but they have several diseases.

I don't know if it is because of the cousin marriages over time but cousin marriage is common there.

Rest, anyone can be abnormal...

But inbreeding raises the chances and makes it more dangerous.

 

[amoverlord]

I am not an expert on this topic but I will share an example of my family with you guys.

My aunt\'s (mami) family has a complex history of cousin marriage. Cousin marriage is going on for couple of generations on her side. Now when she married my uncle (mamu) which is out of the family... had a third child (my cousin) who is abnormal

Our family friends have a cousin marriage history (over generations) and their children are not abnormal but they have several diseases.

I don\'t know if it is because of the cousin marriages over time but cousin marriage is common there.

Rest, anyone can be abnormal...

what was ur mami\'s age n what kind of abnormality....it may not be hereditary.....

 

[SekrutYakhni]

But inbreeding raises the chances and makes it more dangerous.

Sorry..
I can't comment on this as I am not a professional.

 

[Khalid Ibn Walid]

Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] worked for Khadijah right? And later they got married.

Why is it wrong to 'date' then? What's wrong if you like a co-worker/friend? Or if you date [Date is nothing but eating out or socializing together] them? I can understand if you are against Pre-marital sex, but what's with clubbing dating and promiscuity.

Instead of coming on this forum and asking q's like this you should go on Islam q a, and ask your questions .

you name tells a lot about you , being a psychiatrist i can conclude that the reason u are here asking these questions is because u need justification for the things u believe and the things that Ur doing ,from Ur qs and Ur answers it is clear that u are not satisfied.
so if you have q's about Islam you should go on a reliable website like Islam q a and ask Ur q's, because on this forum there are Hindus Christians who have different beliefs .
if i said anything to offend u it was not my intention.

http://www.islam-qa.com