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Why China won't allow a Russian defeat in Ukraine no matter what it takes

Well said!

The following is my rough ranking from losers to winners of this war so far by degree:
Losers
Ukraine
Russia
EU
.
.
India
.
China
USA
Winners

Ukraine is the biggest loser. Small country has to maneuver deftly among big powers. Vietnam, IMHO, did very well. Ukraine did very shitty. It falls into US politicians' trap.

Russia did shitty, because it falls into US politicians' trap by launching the invasion.
Russia made wrong judgements on capability of both sides.
But Russia has little option leading up to this. Ukraine was ramping up attack on Donbas, Russia couldn't allow Donbass to fall. Then Crimea is the next.

From hindsight, the better option for Russia is to enter the war by defending Donbas, then gradually escalating the war.

Vietnam did very well ultimately because of geography, south Vietnam is too costly to defend (by stationing US troops). Otherwise, it is another Korea.
 
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It depends on how you define victory. Is independent Ukraine that joins EU (or possibly NATO) a defeat for Russia ?

Will China or Iran send cannon fodder to the Ukrainian frontlines ? Short of that I see a Russian defeat in Ukraine

Firstly, the OP is spot on. Good 'strategic' analysis instead of like 'XYZ bombing ABC via drones or missiles' and showing bodies.

As to your question, a 'victory' for Russia would be a defendable occupation of land along the Dnieper River; the river provides a natural advantage IF Russia can claim enough land fortify positions up to that. The closer Russia is to Kiev in fortified positions like North Korea is to Seoul, the better is it is for Russia and for the same reasons.

Interesting, isn't it that well into the 21st century, natural boundaries like rivers and oceans are still so important.
 
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Firstly, the OP is spot on. Good 'strategic' analysis instead of like 'XYZ bombing ABC via drones or missiles' and showing bodies.

As to your question, a 'victory' for Russia would be a defendable occupation of land along the Dnieper River; the river provides a natural advantage IF Russia can claim enough land fortify positions up to that. The closer Russia is to Kiev in fortified positions like North Korea is to Seoul, the better is it is for Russia and for the same reasons.

Interesting, isn't it that well into the 21st century, natural boundaries like rivers and oceans are still so important.

Russia has a long frontline in the South vulnerable to Ukraine offensive

The main problem for the Russians is their weapons sourced Western chips and other semiconductors. They can potentially use Chinese chipsets, etc., but the quality and the effectiveness of this conflict's weapon weren’t good PR.

On top of the Russian economy, after this is over, it will be in no shape or form to rebuild. Just remember, after USSR, their forces deteriorated, and before this conflict, they weren’t in any better shape.

Then you have the issue of corruption that seems to have caused another set of problems. Many units were not functional because money wasn’t applied properly.

Their strategy and tactics are another story altogether.

As for the experience, they’ve not gained anything as their officers and soldiers were dying in large numbers and units being wiped out. There’s nothing they can take back and teach the next batch of recruits.

The Russians, with their rich military history, are done and dusted for good and will be nothing but a vassal state for the Chinese.

Weapons are designed and built by engineers & scientists. They have lost 2 million of those people to Israel, USA and Western Europe. There is no replacing that

You know who instigated the war, who is the original culprit.
Name the country who started the war
 
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This is highly unlikely. It would break China's neutrality stance.

China need not have that stance of being neutral any more. Why must China appear to be neutral when Murica and NATO and other Murican doggies like Japan and UK appeared to be demented and righteously indulging in what they think is a holy gang rape of Russia?

It is clear over and over again from the confessions of Merkel and others that the Minsk negociations nothing of hogwash in preparing Ukriane as weapon to destroy Russia and to claim the wealth of Russia.

SEE THE WAY MURICA AND NATO AND UK AND THOSE THEY CONTROLLED POURING WEAPONS AND $$$$$ INTO UKRAINE NAZIs IN FRENZY OF WANKING AWAY , CHALLENGING EACH OTHER IN THEIR UTTERLY DIGUSTING WAY AS TO WHO CAN PRODUCE MORE AND CAN SPURT THEIR CUM FURTHER

And all that as preamble in the killing of China who standing firmly in the way of Murica Hegemony over the world.

Actually China can supply Firedragon system's 300km missiles that can be launched by Tornado-S MLRS system of Russia. Since it is tube launched and totally destroyed on impact it would be hard to prove they are not the missiles of Tornado-S. Another option can be for China to take the blueprints from Russia of Tornado-S 9M544-200km range missiles and produce them locally sending them back to Russia maybe with some improvements as well(laser gyros - longer range etc.). This way China won't lose deniability option while supplying long range munition to Russia.

Same option goes for Russian Orion MALE drones. They have sufficient performance and can carry atgms as well. Instead of delivering Chinese patented drones factories can produce Orion drones after taking blueprints from Russia and send them back to Russia. If it is downed then a Russian produced Orion drone would be downed not a Chinese drone. If paperwork is handled correctly it can't be traced back to China and would appear as Russian production.
Click to expand...

Absolutely no to surreptitiously having to clandestinely supply weapons to Russia

WHY MUST CHINA DO THAT WHEN MURICA AND NATO AND THEIR HIDEOUS DOGGIES LIKE UK AND JAPAN POURING WEAPONS TO UKRAINE NAZIS TO KILL RUSSIANS. AND ALL THAT BE EVENTUALLY FOLLOWED BY MURICA AND NATO IN THE KILLING OF CHINESE WHO ARE NOW THE ONLY 2 COUNTRIES THAT CAN PREVENT MURICA AND NATO FROM DESPOILING THE OTHER COUNTRIES.
Not only the Chinese weapon systems be openly destributed to Russia. Those chinese weapon systems be backed by Chinese advisors to Russia. And in numbers and quantity to shock and awe Murica and NATO to shit and pee in their pants.

Why other countries can supply Ukraine and those countries supporting Ukraine with weapon systems?

Time for China to step in to supply Russia and those on the side of Russia with weapon systems too.

:enjoy: Especially with Chinese PCL-191 and FireDragons

details here

China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan

China's Version of HIMARS, long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), Could Be 'Game Changer' if Beijing Attacks Taiwan BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 8/5/22 AT 1:33 PM EDT long-range Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) that has been described as China's version of the HIMARS could be a "game...
defence.pk


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Anytime Murica want to embarrass themselves by comparing their touted HIMAR to PHL-191?

HIMAR CANNOT COMPARE IN REACH, AND COMPARE WITH BANG
OR IN CEP
OR COMPARE IN NUMBERS.

The new M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number committed to Ukraine to 16. The light, wheeled multiple rocket launcher allows Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,

AND REMEMBER CHINA INDUSTRIAL PROWESS CAN CHURN OUT
PHL-191 AND FIREDRAGONS LIKE COOKIES AND DIMSUMS.

CHINA CAN EASILY SUPPLY RUSSIA WITH 10 PHL-191 FOR EVERY 1 HIMARS MURICA GIVING TO UKRAINE

HIMAR IS LIKE USING MUZZLE LOADER BLACK POWDER SINGLE SHOT AGAINST
Type 85 heavy machine gun


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After all , Russia is on the frontline of the war waged by Murica and NATO on both of them. Hoping to destroy or weaken Russian prior to taking on China

And also send 100 PCL 191s together with 20,000 Fire Dragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++ :enjoy: :omghaha:

With big missiles, China also got tiny cutie wutie missiles size of cucumbers.
Of much shorter range than the FireDragons.



World first micro missile to hunt snipers, helicopters and armour cars​

FVXRZSyaUAAJVpi





https://inf.news/en/military/e216edc4350d07ad049b992cf0b50fd4.html

China should gift Russia with 500 such boxes for a start.

FVXRZS1aAAAfOge




Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?​

2022-09-05 18:00 HKT

The development of miniature missile systems has become a new trend in the national defense and military industry. The more famous ones are the American Scorpion, Spear and other micro missiles, and China's QN202 micro missiles. Compared with the US micro-missiles, how strong is the Chinese-made micro-missiles?
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



1. What is QN202, and why is it eye-catching?

At the 2018 Zhuhai Air Show, many cutting-edge military weapons appeared, making the audience dizzy. The QN202 micro missile is one of the more eye-catching weapons at this air show. On the introduction card, it intimately used multiple languages to briefly and concisely introduce to the audience where this miniature missile is and where it is new.
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



From the appearance, this QN202 is relatively small and exquisite, and the thickness is equivalent to that of an adult's arm. The QN202 mini missile is only 52 cm in size and 1.2 kg in mass, which is basically equivalent to the weight of two bottles of conventional mineral water and is very light.

As can be seen from the pictures uploaded back to the Zhuhai Air Show, QN202 creatively adopts a backpack-style design. The backpack-like storage for individual soldiers makes carrying missiles as easy and fast as students carrying their schoolbags to school. It is expected to greatly increase the speed of assembly of soldiers on the battlefield, thereby improving combat efficiency. A soldier's backpack can carry six QN202 micro missiles. If the soldier holds another one, then one person can carry seven mini-missiles. This type of micro missile system is flexible, easy to carry, and has advantages that traditional missile systems cannot match in the past.
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



QN202 manufacturer AutoNavi is a private enterprise based in Wuhan Optics Valley. Although the name is similar to AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd., which developed the AutoNavi map, the two companies are actually not the same. AutoNavi Infrared mainly produced infrared thermal imaging products, such as infrared thermal imaging cameras. In 2014, this company creatively obtained the overall development qualification for a certain type of new and complete weapon system, setting a precedent for a private enterprise, and it can be described as a great success.

QN202 is a successful innovation attempt by a Chinese company, adding to the field of R&D and manufacturing of China's micro-missiles. Following the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation's 63.5 cm "Rainbow" miniature precision attack missile, China's miniature missile has opened a new chapter, adding QN202, a new force from private enterprises.
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



2. With a small body and great power, are micro missiles really useful?

The miniature missiles have shrunk in size, will their functions also be weakened, and can't they be used in modern battlefields? The answer is of course no.
Another big idea of QN202 is the use of gun-type launchers. In the past, miniature missiles such as "Rainbow" were mainly used on drones and were not considered for individual combat. The QN202 is light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?




This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.
The gun launcher of the QN202 is similar to an ordinary military assault rifle and has an aiming display similar to a gun sight. The display can display the images transmitted by the missile seeker, and is also equipped with a fore grip, a target indication system, and a retractable support.
On the actual battlefield, soldiers can use the transmitter to launch QN202 by operating the controller with their left hand. The familiar design reduces the difficulty of operating this new miniature self-seeking missile system for individual soldiers in actual combat in a sense, and enables soldiers to use new weapons more quickly.

Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



Of course, QN202 is not only used for individual combat, it can also be carried on the popular UAV for military strikes. Take the WS30 micro drone independently developed by AutoNavi Infrared as an example. In order to cooperate with the QN202 micro missile, it is equipped with a special barrel device. This drone alone can carry four QN202 micro missiles into it. Enemy line.
The application of miniature drones and miniature self-seeking missiles may be the embodiment of the technological charm of the age of science and technology. It does not require the soldiers of the People's Liberation Army to take risks or snipers. When the QN202 micro missile is mounted on a UAV, it can use semi-active laser guidance to guide the enemy. Such a high-tech combination can replace individual soldiers to go deep into dangerous places, complete more arduous combat missions, and avoid unnecessary casualties.

At the Zhuhai Air Show, there was such a phrase "don't care after launch" in the introduction column of QN202. What does it mean? In fact, no matter after launch, it means that QN202 does not require special laser irradiation, and only needs to use the scope on the gun transmitter to complete one-key lock.
Chinese private enterprises have created miracles and manufactured the QN202 micro-missile. How does it compare with the United States?



As long as the operator completes the step of locking the target, there is no need to do any extra operations on the QN202 missile. Once the target is locked , QN202 can be launched automatically without any guidance. The QN202 has a range of 2 kilometers. As long as the enemy is within 2 kilometers, whether the enemy is light armor or a vivid target, the QN202 can effectively strike it.

And not to forget China drones and suicide drones

To take out the enemies of both Russia and China
WhatsApp Image 2022-05-24 at 12.59.24 PM.jpeg



Ukraine war will end very very fast

When dozens of PCL 191 and Firedragons with reach of 350km and CEP of 1 meter ++ :enjoy: :omghaha:

Against that of HIMARS used by Ukraine to strike at ranges of 85 kilometers, or 53 miles,

And sniper duels between mercenaries and Nazis using Barrett XM109 that weigh 15 kg unloaded.

And that of Russian snipers using QN202 light and portable, and the matched gun-type launcher makes it possible for individual soldiers to launch missiles in hand.

This gun launcher weighs about 1.2 kg, while a single soldier backpack full of QN202 weighs 7.2 kg. The total weight of the entire device is only 8.4 kg, which is light and labor-saving, and easy to carry.



Delivery of Firedragons (range 300KM CEP 1m)

www.news9live.com



China tests precision strike capability of its advanced rocket launch system at high altitude

Chinese experts believe that the range of the rocket launch system was extended to 500 km, which would mean that the rocket launch system could hit any Indian military base along the Line of
www.news9live.com


www.news9live.com

and Chinese suicide drones by the hundreds of boxes🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🏔️🐲 Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with



FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.




China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901?

C7yP4jXV4AA08vk




https://****/mangopress/13859 🇨🇳 #China 🤖 #AI #DroneSwarming
**** = t dot me

China has completed a test of 200 unmanned aerial vehicles' swarm 'ability to cooperate in combat.
Perhaps by next month China complete test of 2000 unmanned aerial vehicles' swarm 'ability to cooperate in combat.

🥭 @mangopress Charley Malagum:
The Chinese military are getting stronger and stronger. The USA are in for a huge treat in 2025 😏✈️✈️✈️

MIGHT BE EARLIER SHOULD CHINA GIFT RUSSIA THIS TO DENAZIFIED AND DEMILITARISED UKRAINE AND NATO
 
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China's neighbors are off limits. If Russia gets invaded, China has no choice but war. It would be Korean war 2.0.
 
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Yup the EU has problems and Russia has no problems. All the Russian whores in Dubai and Singapore are f**king for the sake of boredom

The EU is facing recession, and social problems will increase, so we can wait and see.

The overall social situation in Russia is stable, and most people live a normal life. What Russia is facing is how to develop.

Overall, the difference is whether or not the state is truly sovereign. The United States will drain the interests of EU countries.
 
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The war in Ukraine will continue, sell high-priced energy to Europe, attract European funds and businesses to the United States, and sell arms. A war in Ukraine is in America's interest. A weak Europe in the future will need American protection even more. China will increase its economic and technological cooperation with Russia, and the Russian Far East will be the focus of China's investment in the future.
 
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The war in Ukraine will continue, sell high-priced energy to Europe, attract European funds and businesses to the United States, and sell arms. A war in Ukraine is in America's interest. A weak Europe in the future will need American protection even more. China will increase its economic and technological cooperation with Russia, and the Russian Far East will be the focus of China's investment in the future.

Yup!
China and America. The two greatest beneficiaries of this war. Europeans are spineless suckers!! Tribal. Spineless. Stupid.
 
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China's neighbors and in particular Russia = modern day Great Wall of China are off limits. If the US invades Russia then China will go to war with the US like China did when the US invaded North Korea in 1950.
Lol no one is invading Russian kid, USA don't want this cold desert country to be invaded so calm down US and West just to continue supplying weapons to Ukraine and Russia become weaker and weaker in coming future as a result
 
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The EU is facing recession, and social problems will increase, so we can wait and see.

The overall social situation in Russia is stable, and most people live a normal life. What Russia is facing is how to develop.

Overall, the difference is whether or not the state is truly sovereign. The United States will drain the interests of EU countries.

tell us how many Pakistanis are migrating to Russia
 
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Lol no one is invading Russian kid, USA don't want this cold desert country to be invaded so calm down US and West just to continue supplying weapons to Ukraine and Russia become weaker and weaker in coming future as a result

Russia would nuke Washington DC if the US depletes Russia population in Donba in a genocidal war. Americans better not push their luck.
 
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