Why China paid $1trillion to US but doesn't pay a dime to the Pak govt?

[muse]

What China gives Pakistan is "Self Respect" and helping brothers to stand on their feet

Hmm - something wrong with the way this idea is presented -- How can someone other than yourself "give" you SELF respect??

Look guys China says

what is most important is to reinforce confidence, as confidence is more precious than gold.”

Can anyone have confidence in a country in which the government does not uphold the law, nor protect citizens, nor their property?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hmm - something wrong with the way this idea is presented -- How can someone other than yourself "give" you SELF respect??

Look guys China says
Can anyone have confidence in a country in which the government does not uphold the law, nor protect citizens, nor their property?

What I mean by SELFRESPECT is to force the corrupt government to work !!! In Pakistan - I prefer we work hard to gain our dollars and not outright expect China to solve the issue for us ... because our people mostly politicians and other folks feel its out god given right to get money and use it as SALARIES

We want to solve our own problems - we don't want to burden our brothers Chinese all the time !!!

Get it ... problem is our Politicians and Thinking that money solves every thing no its YOUR PEOPLE AND HARD ETHICS ...

So I agree with how China is helping pakistan and 100% appreciate it and am thankful

The sooner we hang our politicians the sonner we will make 300 billion dollars annually

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Goodness! What this about?

Long story. It is the legacy of our "century of humilation".

 

[muse]

Long story. It is the legacy of our "century of humilation".

Anyway -- get over it. We have work to do.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan - China relation is wonderful , and we are 1000 times thankful to all help that came form China ...Trillions and Trillions would not be enough

But We Pakistan- and Pakistanis need to understand - look we need to fix our own system !!!! MAKE MONEY !!! COLLECT TAXES

There is no reason why Pakistan cannot be a 300 billion surplus economy

We have
a) Agriculture
b) Engineering
c) People power
d) Minerals

Pretty soon cheap gas , and Nuclear power

What we lack is initiative !!! and that is what China is trying to help us with

I don't want them to give us quick 80 billion and then our Politicians and Governments go buy home in Hawaii, UK , palace in Swiss or a hotel in Sweeden ......

Look we have a serious corroption problem in Pakistan - and serious problem with Ethics / honesty


What is holding us back are these politicians who go to white house for tea and biscuits and they get 1 billion loans , and then they sit on their couch and give speeches about how they will fix Pakistan... when for past 10-20 years they have done nothing but steal funds and lived in United Kingdom

A real friend is someone who is there to help you !!!! guide you but not necessarily always give you money !!! to solve your problems - best friend is someone who points you to your mistakes and and is there for you in your need !!!

And this is why China shares a special bond with Pakistan because it truely is helping Pakistan stand on its feet


Once we get out of the culture of using Aid money to pay salaries of Government offices the problem will be solved the government MUST FEEL the crunch of eating once a day before it will learn to make profits !!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Anyway -- get over it. We have work to do.

Sounds good to me.

Anyway, I know you have always argued for reform in the Pakistani political system. The problem of course, is that there are too many vested interests, like crooked politicians who fill their pockets with other people's money.

The real question, is how do you "force" the Pakistani government to start implementing the necessary reforms. What kind of shock needs to be applied.

 

[muse]

The real question, is how do you "force" the Pakistani government to start implementing the necessary reforms. What kind of shock needs to be applied.

For this, you need to tackle the Pakistan army - I know, it may sound very strange to you - but the real power in Pakistan, is not Zardari, it is Pakistan army - and that army is animated by the spirit of Jihad, what the Pakistan army really wants is to recover the pride and shame that it lost to the Indian army, over and over and over again --- ideas such as economy being what strategic power is about, is something they will not understand, they have not understood it in 64 years, so it's clear the problem is one that does not have a solution in the near future.

If you go to the Army board you will see discussion and the response - so, really, nothing can effect the trajectory Pakistan is on, at least not in the near future.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sorry , I don't blame our forces - the 4-5 billion dollars that forces take is MUST for survival of state

Problem lies in our culture and people at ground level who feel its ok to not pay taxes, steal electricity and pay bribes

Kill the rat at ground level and lives of collective will improve

Our politicians are biggest rats of them all

If 2% people pay taxes , your government has no funds to run operations !!!

If our top 40 corporations can't yield 100 billion profits as whole we have problem and that is productivity and not working well

All the lazy ppl need to fired and those who go on street and burn tires need to be shot

180 Million is population of Pakistan if every one pays 100 $ tax ( remember our GDP is $3000)
18 Billion dollars collect Aggressive tax collection

So why do we need China to pay anything !!!

Put your hand in pocket and pay your share of tax

Every one has money for Gold jewelry , car , and fancy weeding up to 10,000 USD but no one pays 100$ for taxes per year ....


The culture of LIVING LAZY life with no TAXes has to end ...

House Taxation
Income Tax
Foreign Property Tax
Passport Tax
Vehicle Tax
SALES TAX

All is must to solve Pakistan's debt ...

CHINA will not solve it nor we want to burden china with that its our own responsibility to fix our mess

In world where the fittest survive its ok for the ones who don't work or are lazy to be out of Job


The problem ARE THE PEOPLE .... making money , getting electricity , hydro and other benefits and not paying taxes !!! They all use the excuse to blame the other - well how about your own self !!!


Imprison 10-20 business Man - and you will see 80% -85% improvement in Corporate tax
Imprison 10-20 forigne exchanges doing illegal transfers 90% people usings banks for money
Imprison 10,000-20,000 tax evadors - and people will start to pay personal taxes and put their
put their pictures in newspaper on donkeys


Business community doing rallies , and burning tires on road , open fire and knock out 20-30 people , and warn anyone with 2-3 years of prison for property damage

Cars with no registration or number plate or tax payment copies , call tow truck , impound the car !!! No court - no time WATSE IMPOUND THE PAJERO - POLICE OFFICER RECORDS the conversation with owner in video , and that report is submitted with final report - CAR IS SOLD TO SCRAP MARKET AND MONEY GOES TO POLICE FORCE SALARIES $100 BONUS TO OFFICER


Send home owners NOTICE TO REGISTER THEIR PROPERTY ELECTRONICALLY with local offices and pay taxes for home !!! Unregistered home - 2 year prison term

(Bring Property documents , Lawyer - register your property digitally) END OF LAND MAFIA

Build Subway /mono rail and ban motor cycles waste of petrol reduce pollution

Localities with Violence (gangs) - put 2,000 soliders in that location with heavy weapons
wipe out any gangs

 

[muse]

Sorry , I don't blame our forces - the 4-5 billion dollars that forces take is MUST for survival of state

Problem lies in our culture and people at ground level who feel its ok to not pay taxes, steal electricity and pay bribes

Kill the rat at ground level and lives of collective will improve

Our politicians are biggest rats of them all

If 2% people pay taxes , your government has no funds to run operations !!!

If our top 40 corporations can't yield 100 billion profits as whole we have problem and that is productivity and not working well

All the lazy ppl need to fired and those who go on street and burn tires need to be shot

Then we can be the new Syria and Libya?

No point living in denial, you say the problem is in culture, and what is the substance of that culture other than radical islam, which was introduced and is sustained by the army -- China had a cultural revolution started by mao and supported by the force of the Red Guards - it last 10 to 12 years - Pakistan's cultural revolution, started by the Pakistan army is now going on 32 years, two generations of people have been corrupted -- The cultural revolution nearly destroyed CHina in 10 to 12 years, that Pakistani is still limping along is a testament to the resilience of the Pakistan people.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Then we can be the new Syria and Libya?

No point living in denial, you say the problem is in culture, and what is the substance of that culture other than radical islam, which was introduced and is sustained by the army -- China had a cultural revolution started by mao and supported by the force of the Red Guards - it last 10 to 12 years - Pakistan's cultural revolution, started by the Pakistan army is now going on 32 years, two generations of people have been corrupted -- The cultural revolution nearly destroyed CHina in 10 to 12 years, that Pakistani is still limping along is a testament to the resilience of the Pakistan people.

I have noticed that these important reforms often take place out of desperation.

China had our reforms in 1978, two years after the end of the horrific Cultural revolution. India had their reforms, after their economic crisis in 1991.

I think it would be well worth it, to read up about such reforms in other countries too, so that we can find the best way to encourage reform in Pakistan's political system.

 

[JonAsad]

For this, you need to tackle the Pakistan army - I know, it may sound very strange to you - but the real power in Pakistan, is not Zardari, it is Pakistan army - and that army is animated by the spirit of Jihad, what the Pakistan army really wants is to recover the pride and shame that it lost to the Indian army, over and over and over again --- ideas such as economy being what strategic power is about, is something they will not understand, they have not understood it in 64 years, so it's clear the problem is one that does not have a solution in the near future.

If you go to the Army board you will see discussion and the response - so, really, nothing can effect the trajectory Pakistan is on, at least not in the near future.

Are you proposing dictatorship?- because when the army will try to bring reforms- it will not be democratic-

 

[muse]

Dragon

It's pretty desperate in Pakistan - it has been for a long time now - trust me on this - but still no relief -- and if and when relief does come, it is more than likely to be tied to US policy - I think you realize what I am saying.

 

[muse]

Are you proposing dictatorship?- because when the army will try to bring reforms- it will not be democratic-

Please Jonas, don't go simplistic on me -- The Islamist experiment in Pakistan was initiated from within the army - and that is where the reversal of this idea must start -- I have been arguing that we need a "smarter" armed forces - a more well educated and more aware of the world, armed forces and that matter of faith are not what the army needs to be concerned about.

Army in Pakistan exerts a very powerful "influence" - it is a barometer of sorts, of the currency ideas in society may have if they have support in the army. - none of this has to be dictatorship, rather, it is an exercise to help the army see it's interests ina new light, one that does not involve cynicism, nor matters of religion or sect, but rather of strategic strength - a poor and desperate Pakistan, is in no one's interest, no one - and a poor desperate and radical Pakistan, is a danger to all - ALL.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Then we can be the new Syria and Libya?

No point living in denial, you say the problem is in culture, and what is the substance of that culture other than radical islam, which was introduced and is sustained by the army -- China had a cultural revolution started by mao and supported by the force of the Red Guards - it last 10 to 12 years - Pakistan's cultural revolution, started by the Pakistan army is now going on 32 years, two generations of people have been corrupted -- The cultural revolution nearly destroyed CHina in 10 to 12 years, that Pakistani is still limping along is a testament to the resilience of the Pakistan people.

Unfortunately the heavy fines , and policing is what Western Civilization has perfected so we need to start collecting tax from people and stop their none sense excuses for why they are above the law not to pay anytax

Syria and Libya are different examples because those are wars incited by NATO funded by NATO money ... there is no real resisitance other then financed gorillas - the mess we have is our own people corroupt to core NOT PAYING TAXES


Recent attempts to impose sales tax resulted in protest and burning tires well - I think the Government has to start collecting taxes

Pakistan was created not as a place where 0% taxes are collected we are not Saudi Arabia where we have abundance of oil or UAE , we need to collect taxes and USE FORCE WHERE NECESSARY to implement laws of society


Penelty for not paying tax in USA


a) Imprisonment
b) Wage (Confiscated)
c) Confiscation of your bank account
d) Confiscation of your property and sold in auctions and money recovered
e) Violent protest (More imprisonment)
f) Unregistered car on road (Considered car theft , $5000 dollar fines)
g) Car speeding over 40km over limit (Car Impounded plus fine and possible imprisonment)
h) Gun with no license (imprisonment)


ALL POLICE OFFICERS/ TAX COLLECTORS / AGENTS / ENFORCERS are paid bonus from the money they helped to recover via tickets , fines, and confiscations

Its only in Pakistan where political parties shut down business by force and gangsters

Pakistani are living life of luxury far too long , living in all paid for homes and not paying any tax and yet holding rallies every next day to disrupt business - if you don't have electricity go get yourself a solar panel instead of rallies and petrol burning

I mean what is important Solar pannel , or your make up - video games , fancy food, weddings ,
parties , dinner parties for 40 people , more weddings , countless clothes for all members of family and fancy cars (unregistered stolen) , fancy number plates , motor bikes


All nations need % for Army / De-fence and its a must the problem we have is that public is not paying Taxes , so government cannot function and its begging for Aid -

If we PUT THE FOOT ON THE GROUND and start collecting tax ... problem solved

We need to study Chinese form of government and learn form Chinese friends , and put some political leaders in Pakistan frist in prison for good

The day Pakistanis stop making excuses - oh I am not paying any tax because my uncles uncle does not , and his politician friend does not ... so I am exempt the problems will be solved -

The problem is ourselves - and we need to look in mirror and correct ourselves and no China is not responsible for our underachievement we need to pay our taxes

 

[muse]

Unfortunately the heavy fines , and policing is what Western Civilization has perfected so we need to start collecting tax from people and stop their none sense excuses for why they are above the law not to pay anytax

Why is this "unfortunate" - I would have thought this is excellent policy.