Why are Muslim nations behind the West and the Far East?

[CallSignMaverick]

@Joe Shearer , sir, I know you are of the view that there is a sizeable proportion of sensible people in India, as opposed to the more vocal, intellectually struggling crowd that's become the face of India in recent years.

I like to think you are right. However, I have noticed it's a theme with many Indian members here to correlate religion with development, a la "Islamic countries are under-developed because of too much Islam". "India's economic growth and international prestige skyrocketed because of the unapologetically Hindu administration of Modi Jee".

How prevalent, in your opinion, is this malaise amongst your compatriots?

Not trying to troll, but sometimes I too do feel the same, that the most developed countries among OIC are less religious, and the least developed are highly conservative. Its true in India as well (least fundamentalist Muslims being most successful and highly conservative ones remaining backward). Might not be related to any particular religion but thats somewhat true isn't it?

India too isn't a very rich country yet is ahead of all Muslim countries in global innovation index except Turkey and Malaysia. Even in economic complexity index, India is ahead of all Islamic countries except KSA and Malaysia in economic complexity index as well. Showing that despite low per capita income, India as a nation is much more robust.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Phrase your question to specific countries. Seems like you mean Pakistan and Afghanistan.

 

[Sandwalk]

If you look towards the West like USA, France, UK, Canada, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Spain,

and when you look at the Far East countries like China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore why are we are behind in science and technology?

An intellectual asked why? Because we are not well educated in the hard sciences and social sciences and the academic disciplines.

How many undergraduates, associate degrees, master degrees, and college diplomas graduates do Muslim majority countries produce?

To bridge the gap, we need to learn industrialization, how to improve governance, how to improve the economy, manufacturing techniques, improve standard of living,
improve the reputation of our countries, and agricultural output of our countries.

People are invited to give their views. We are looking for constructive criticism, and not insults.

Regards.

IMO the main difference is actually neither education, personal liberties nor religiousity, but rather entrepreneurialship.

West is riding on a wave that started in the 1400s with a entepreneurial drive and quest, that lead to discovery of maritime trade routes and colonial bonanza. Rest is history.

China since Deng came to power use exact same formula.

Educate muslim youths in seeking own business and looking to create wealth for both themselves and their community.

There must also be strong governmental protection for compnies like right and protection of properties including intellectual properties.

 

[Sandwalk]

I also regret seing people always blame religion. But heres something to ponder. The west until very recetly were not less religous than muslim world. The western society i argue was somewhat less tolerant when it come to race, religion and sexuality until end of WW2.

We must also consider Cities vs countrysides.

 

[Azadkashmir]

shoot zardaris sharifs whisky munir and bajwas.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I also regret seing people always blame religion. But heres something to ponder. The west until very recetly were not less religous than muslim world. The western society i argue was somewhat less tolerant when it come to race, religion and sexuality until end of WW2.

This is true, but the original poster is too ashamed to identify Pakistan, instead drags down the word Muslim.

There is no accountability without specifically identifying a person or country.

 

[waz]

DO you think you or your religion has the toletance to listen to truth.

You can hardly talk with the sanghi ruled kingdom.

 

[merzifonlu]

Because the minds and consciences of the majority of Muslims are not free. When they make a decision, instead of using their minds and consciences, they ask mullahs or something.

Just as their minds are not free, their consciences are also dulled. For example, those who watch the public executions in Iran, which is said to have very good universities, can say "Allahu Akbar" without shame.

The outside world, which follows on TV this fanaticism and barbarism, does not establish relations with Muslims unless it is absolutely necessary. Such a community cannot prosper. Neither can respect.

 

[Sandwalk]

Because the minds and consciences of the majority of Muslims are not free. When they make a decision, instead of using their minds and consciences, they ask mullahs or something.

Just as their minds are not free, their consciences are also dulled. For example, those who watch the public executions in Iran, which is said to have very good universities, can say "Allahu Akbar" without shame.

The outside world, which follows on TV this fanaticism and barbarism, does not establish relations with Muslims unless it is absolutely necessary. Such a community cannot prosper. Neither can respect.

The west would villify muslim world regardless i assure you. Its geopolitics 101.

When muslim world was far more tolerant and advanced, the crusaders forexamle saw muslims as liberal cesspools.

Iranians, Pakistanis or Turks for that matter can be as tolerant or irreligous as they want but geopolitics will trump. Europe will always identify itself in opposition to its neighboring civillizations.

Look at China, as atheists and irreligious as it gets and Chinese are still villified just because they are a major competitor.

Either you die or you submit yourself and your land to western society, only then will the west accept you as a «normal».

This is modus operandi, and i assume its same for every major civillization.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey might be doing better than some Muslim countries, but their fiercely secular society repels many Muslims.

only one example
Turkiye has developed Aircraft in 1930s-1940s .. but pro-American politicans ( secular CHP ) blocked Turkish aviation industry

now led by president ERDOGAN Turkish aviation industry enter top league in the world
( USA , Russia , China , Europe , Turkiye )

-- TF-23 KAAN Fighter Jet
-- HURJET nex gen Traning and light attack Jet
-- HURKUS Traning and light attack Aircraft
-- KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet
-- ANKA-3 stealth UCAV
-- TB-2 , TB-3 , ANKA , AKSUNGUR ,AKINCI UCAVs
-- KARGI , ALPAGUT , AZAB , SUPER SIMSEK Kamikaze Drones
-- T-625 and T-925 Utility Helicopters
-- T-929 heavy Attack Helicopter
-- HAVASOJ airborne stand off Jammer
-- Communications and Observation Satellites

-- GaN based AESA Radars
-- Radar Electronic Warfare Systems
-- Targeting and Jamming Pods
-- Simulators
-- Tactical data link
-- low-medium-high altitude Air Defense Systems
-- Air to Air Missiles
-- Air launched Cruise Missiles
-- Special Helmet from Aselsan for the Fighter Jets

-- liquid-propellant rocket engine technology for space trials
-- National and unique hybrid Rocket Engines for the Moon mission
( The world's most advanced hybrid rocket motor technology which comprises oxidizing liquid and solid fuels and transferred as an innovative technology )

ENGINE Technology

Turkiye is one of a few Countries in the World that have bliks and single crystal blade technologies for gas turbine turboshaft - turbofan Engines

-- KALE KTJ-1700 , KTJ-3200 , KTJ-3500 and ARAT turbojet Engines for Cruise Missiles
-- TEI PD-170/222 aviation Engines for UCAVs
-- TEI TS-1400 turboshaft Engine for Helicopters
-- TEI TF-6000 and TF-10.000 turbofan Engines for unmanned Fighter Jets
-- also 35.000 lbs turbofan Engine under development

not only aviation , but full of Defense Industry enter top league in the world including Naval Industry

Also Turkiye produce its own Cargo and RO-RO Ships , Chemical Tanker , Seismic Vessel , Trains , Car , Bus , Truck , Tram , Electric Locomotive , Electric Urban Excavator , 400-600 hp commercial truck Engines , 1.000 hp diesel Engine for Locomotives , locomotive Engines 8, 12 or 16 cylinders up to 2,700 hp

-- Turkiye is one of the 4 countries that produce hybrid locomotive
-- Turkiye is one of the 10 countries that produce communications satellites
-- Turkiye is 5th country that produce Alumina after the USA,Germany,China and Russia
-- IFF Mod5/S long range (friend or foe) Identification System ( only 7 countries in the World )
-- Single mode LASER Weapon System .. ( only USA , Turkiye , China )
-- E-BERK Tunnel Boring Machine .. ( Only 8 countries in the World )
-- Special Helmet from Aselsan for the Fighter Jets .. ( only a few countries in the world )
-- KASIF-II new generation hybrid work class remotely operated Vehicle ( Only 4 countries in the World )

-- Turkiye is one of 5 countries that have boron carbide production capability

-- Robot Eye can detect natural gas leaks in natural gas pipes with its 900 sensors
This technology is only available in USA and Turkiye

-- Turkiye has developed semiconductor chip ( only The USA,Germany,China and Turkiye in the world ) .... Ermaksan is one of the 4 laser chip manufacturers in the world

-- Microprocessor
-- Turkiye is able to produce JP-10 type missile fuel which is produced by only a few developed countries in the world

-- Nano transistor technology based on gallium nitride semiconductor material ... ( only a few countries in the worlds )

-- Turkiye is among the few countries that produce the lenses with high quality and with a five-micron level tolerance

-- Turkish Aerospace Subsidiary CTech Information Technologies is one of the few companies that produce jamming-resistant SATCOM terminals in the World

-- 2500 watt modular AC/DC converters produced by ANOVA for the first time in the world

-- Turkiye is among the few countries that produce sub-meter space Camera

-- LITHIUM produced by Turkiye from Boron waste ( the first time in the world )

-- Turkish brands like BEKO , ARCELIK and VESTEL are among the largest producers of consumer electronics and home appliances in Europe

-- Turkish automotive companies like TEMSA, OTOKAR and BMC are one of the world's largest van, bus and truck manufacturers

-- Turkiye developed the Europe's largest 5-axis CNC milling machine

-- HgCdTe , QWIP , InSb , InGaAs quantum Infrared Photodetectors ... ( only The US,Israel,France,Turkiye )

-- USA, Germany ,Japan and Turkiye are the only countries in the world to have developed Cardiac Support Systems

-- Turkish Avicenna Roboflex is the World’s first endoscopy Robot which has been invented and developed by ELMED


-- Laser chip and laser resonator
-- High Success Multi Precessor CPU Card
-- Multilayer microwave ceramic technology
-- 500kw wind Turbine
-- Turbines and hydraulic cylinders to be used in Hydroelectric Power Plants
-- Metal-Cutting Machinery
-- Fiber laser Cutting Machine
-- Dishing Presses and Flanging Machines
-- Six roller flowforming Machine
-- 3D metal printer and titanium powder
-- Supercritical Carbon dioxide Extraction System
-- High sensitivity Terahertz Imaging System
-- National Surveillance Radar
-- X-Band Transportable Polarimetric Weather Radar
-- Space-qualified solar panel
-- 1.5 MW direct drive wind generator to use in the field of renewable wind energy

-- Atomic force Microscope exported to New York University by NanoMagnetic Scientific Devices ANKARA

-- Medical Systems
( Ventilator , MR -Magnetic Resonance , X-Ray , Mobil DR Systems , Robotic Systems )

-- PV Panel Production
-- Cassegrain type antenna uses S and X band communication for Low Earth Orbit (LEO)
-- Roketsan level 4-5-6 Composite Armor


-- Nanografi Nano Technology ... only a few countries in the world
Carbon Nanotubes and Graphene - Borophene Nanomaterials

 

[beijingwalker]

Not trying to troll, but sometimes I too do feel the same, that the most developed countries among OIC are less religious, and the least developed are highly conservative. Its true in India as well (least fundamentalist Muslims being most successful and highly conservative ones remaining backward). Might not be related to any particular religion but thats somewhat true isn't it?

Religions themselves are ok, they give people moral guidence and a purpose for life and death, which atheism struggles to offer but largely failed, but people should not let religions govern every aspect of one's life and the whole society.

 

[OIO]

emmm. I don't know about other countries. This is Chinese school.

“A savage physique, a civilized spirit”.

Guangxi is also a magical existence in China. Guangxi people don't look strong, but they are the bravest fighters on the battlefield.

But that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Indos]

Not trying to troll, but sometimes I too do feel the same, that the most developed countries among OIC are less religious, and the least developed are highly conservative. Its true in India as well (least fundamentalist Muslims being most successful and highly conservative ones remaining backward). Might not be related to any particular religion but thats somewhat true isn't it?

India too isn't a very rich country yet is ahead of all Muslim countries in global innovation index except Turkey and Malaysia. Even in economic complexity index, India is ahead of all Islamic countries except KSA and Malaysia in economic complexity index as well. Showing that despite low per capita income, India as a nation is much more robust.

Economic complexity indeks is calculated based on export composition. It is because many Muslim nations are blessed by God with natural resources that make their Economic Complexity Index get lower than those who dont export natural resources like India.

Indonesia is getting more conservative and more Islamic since the year 2000 and at the same time its political system, birocrate, anti corruption, safety, economics, society unity, etc are getting better.

Turkey is also getting more Islamic since 2000 and has been ruled by Islamist AKP party through free and fair election. Even AKP is still winning in current election despite Erdo getting more authoritarian than 10 years ago.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Because the minds and consciences of the majority of Muslims are not free. When they make a decision, instead of using their minds and consciences, they ask mullahs or something.

Just as their minds are not free, their consciences are also dulled. For example, those who watch the public executions in Iran, which is said to have very good universities, can say "Allahu Akbar" without shame.

The outside world, which follows on TV this fanaticism and barbarism, does not establish relations with Muslims unless it is absolutely necessary. Such a community cannot prosper. Neither can respect.

Watch crime videos. There are raping, murdering type of criminals for whom public execution seems gentle. Some target little children. I would let hungry bears or hyenas eat them alive.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Economic complexity indeks is calculated based on export composition. It is because many Muslim nations are blessed by God with natural resources that make their Economic Complexity Index get lower than those who dont export natural resources like India.

And that is a problem since a country can't forever rely on natural resources to run its country and will have to diversify. India successfully did it.

Indonesia is getting more conservative and more Islamic since the year 2000 and at the same time its political system, birocrate, anti corruption, safety, economics, society unity, etc are getting better.

I don't think so, you can't measure it as well.

Turkey is also getting more Islamic since 2000 and has been ruled by Islamist AKP party through free and fair election. Even AKP is still winning in current election despite Erdo getting more authoritarian than 10 years ago.

That does seem to explain this.