Why are many Indian Muslims seen as untouchable?

[Stephen Cohen]

NOT Muslims Few INDIAN MUSLIMS practice that under influence from their old Hindu religion. Period.

So why do Indian Muslims do that

who has ASKED them to do that

Why this dichotomy

I believe that I've not posted anything Wrong. Hence, I believe that I won't get banned over this.

You will be if you continue this discussion about Sects and their separate mosques

Believe me

 

[Spectre]

NOT Muslims Few INDIAN MUSLIMS practice that under influence from their old Hindu religion. Period.

Islam is very clear on this issue. If you are sweeper or person who cleans dirty gutters even then being a Muslim you are allowed to stand side by side with the King or even President of the country to offer prayers at same Mosque.

Do you mean to say there is no class "not caste" system in Pakistan? Caste is just a sub sect of class and class system exists in every society irrespective of religion or prosperity. Class like caste is inherited in form wealth and familial connections. Why single out India when discriminatory system exists everywhere.

In Pakistan irrespective of Islam does a common man get the same justice, govt attention and priviledges as a Sharif or a Zardari. Further the social stratification among Muslims in the "Swat" area of North Pakistan has been meaningfully compared to the Caste system in India. The society is rigidly divided into subgroups where each qoum is assigned a profession. Different qoums are not permitted to intermarry or live in the same community. These Muslims practice a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest.

Stephen M. Lyon of University of Kent has written about what he calls "Gujarism", the act of Gurjars in Pakistan seeking out other Gurjars to form associations, and consolidate ties with them, based strictly on caste affiliation.

 

[punit]

it is strange because there is no such thing among Muslims. wonder how Indian Muslims can practice a Hindu tradition of untouchability.

Ashraf AND Ajlaf phenomenon is pan sub continental.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Do you mean to say there is no class "not caste" system in Pakistan? Caste is just a sub sect of class and class system exists in every society irrespective of religion or prosperity. Class like caste is inherited in form wealth and familial connections. Why single out India when discriminatory system exists everywhere.

In Pakistan irrespective of Islam does a common man get the same justice, govt attention and priviledges as a Sharif or a Zardari. Further the social stratification among Muslims in the "Swat" area of North Pakistan has been meaningfully compared to the Caste system in India. The society is rigidly divided into subgroups where each qoum is assigned a profession. Different qoums are not permitted to intermarry or live in the same community. These Muslims practice a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest.

Stephen M. Lyon of University of Kent has written about what he calls "Gujarism", the act of Gurjars in Pakistan seeking out other Gurjars to form associations, and consolidate ties with them, based strictly on caste affiliation.

I just got cancer from this post. You my little Indian friend are so uninformed, that it would be better If you do not post anything regarding Pakistan at all.

 

[punit]

Then what about Buddhists and Sikhs?

sikhs do have caaste but budhism is cast free . but there are divisions and sects in budhism as well.

 

[Jaat Rock]

NOT Muslims Few INDIAN MUSLIMS practice that under influence from their old Hindu religion. Period.

Islam is very clear on this issue. If you are sweeper or person who cleans dirty gutters even then being a Muslim you are allowed to stand side by side with the King or even President of the country to offer prayers at same Mosque.

You are wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_Muslims
https://www.dawn.com/news/1188782/the-miserable-scheduled-castes
http://tribune.com.pk/story/357765/pakistans-caste-system-the-untouchables-struggle/

 

[punit]

NOT Muslims Few INDIAN MUSLIMS practice that under influence from their old Hindu religion. Period.

Islam is very clear on this issue. If you are sweeper or person who cleans dirty gutters even then being a Muslim you are allowed to stand side by side with the King or even President of the country to offer prayers at same Mosque.

so Indian Muslim are not Muslim enough ?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I just got cancer from this post. You my little Indian friend are so uninformed, that it would be better If you do not post anything regarding Pakistan at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_Muslims

https://www.dawn.com/news/1188782/the-miserable-scheduled-castes

http://tribune.com.pk/story/357765/pakistans-caste-system-the-untouchables-struggle/

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Wah Wah. Stephen Lyon is your new bhaghwan right? The funny thing is that you Indians are so far removed from reality or even the basic structures of society in Pakistan, that we entertain you idiots trying to lecture us. Honestly, it's funny to us.

Two out of those Three articles are written by Pakistanis in Pakistani newspapers

One is Wiki pedia ; so why blame Hindus

 

[Spectre]

I just got cancer from this post. You my little Indian friend are so uninformed, that it would be better If you do not post anything regarding Pakistan at all.

I would do so, if Pakistanis specially like you restrict from commenting about India but since that is a forlorn hope, I will continue with my merry ways irrespective of how much it troubles your delicate sensibilities.

 

[Spring Onion]

Whatever floats your boat. Mosques are associated with Sects. Prove me wrong on this. I'll apologize for the posts I've made in this thread. Further, you may request Moderator to start an IM & one can continue this discussion.

And NO sect practice untouchability so either your IQ is not suitable for discussing this issue or you lack vision to understand the difference between untouchability and places of worship.

so Indian Muslim are not Muslim enough ?

When you recite a Kalima then you become a Muslim. Then comes the practical part of following basic Islamic rules and Islam clearly focuses on welfare of the society and anything that harms is society is punishable. These Indian Muslims are not following Islamic rules. they are clearly sinning . I am nobody to declare anyone as enough Muslim or not enough Muslims. I can only explain what is the traits of a Muslim. anyone deviating from Islamic rules is committing a sin or doing wrong just like in this case of Indian Muslims.

I ignored the Flame Bait post... & made my 1st post based on the below mentioned Law which was/is prevalent in Pakistan till 2013.

Under Capital Development Authority rules, every mosque has to declare its sect following, before being granted permission to build the mosque.

I usually refrain from discussing Religion. My intention was to get Ranjeet out of this discussion, but I'm stuck in it.

I hope Spring Onion proves that above law is Incorrect. I'll go ahead and apologize for the posts made by me + if they are against Forums Rule. Mods are free to Ban me.

SO ???? how it is linked to untouchability ? Do you have some brain cells to understand that Islamabad is the capital of the country and this law is to prevent any unlawful activity by elements either who run these mosques or who are affiliated with these. Also being capital of the country it is very much important to keep an eye on activities of followers of different sects due to security concerns.

I think you lack basic understanding about this law. so NVM you should spend most of your time in Members' club.

Do you mean to say there is no class "not caste" system in Pakistan? Caste is just a sub sect of class and class system exists in every society irrespective of religion or prosperity. Class like caste is inherited in form wealth and familial connections. Why single out India when discriminatory system exists everywhere.

In Pakistan irrespective of Islam does a common man get the same justice, govt attention and priviledges as a Sharif or a Zardari. Further the social stratification among Muslims in the "Swat" area of North Pakistan has been meaningfully compared to the Caste system in India. The society is rigidly divided into subgroups where each qoum is assigned a profession. Different qoums are not permitted to intermarry or live in the same community. These Muslims practice a ritual-based system of social stratification. The Quoms who deal with human emissions are ranked the lowest.

Stephen M. Lyon of University of Kent has written about what he calls "Gujarism", the act of Gurjars in Pakistan seeking out other Gurjars to form associations, and consolidate ties with them, based strictly on caste affiliation.

well there is no bar on marrying into any cast or people from any profession. It is another thing that everyone wants to marry into a rich family now what a naee (hair dresser or a komhar) can earn as compared to a clerk ? even if the later is from choora family but if he is earning good have a good social status (economically ) anyone would marry his daughter to him

Now as far as bold part let me tell you even if those cleaning your shit , are allowed to pray at same mosque. according to Islam there is no discrimination. unlike your Hindu Cast system.

On other hand all these gujjars, arain, rajputs etc etc they still carry their centuries old Hindu inferiority or superiority complex .

Here in KpK we do have tribes but there is no untouchbility. Cast system is one thing and tribal preferences is quiet another.

A mosque is open for all sects/ all tribes whereas personal privates homes of people well it is their own choice whom let in.'

 

[Parul]

And NO sect practice untouchability so either your IQ is not suitable for discussing this issue or you lack vision to understand the difference between untouchability and places of worship.

Accept my apologies here. I didn't go through the conversation between you and Ranjeet (which I've done now) . I jumped in between & misinterpreted the conversation. Further, I've deleted all my Posts from this thread, so that it doesn't deviates from the actual topic.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wait, 75% of indian Muslims are dalit-Muslims and hence are untouchables?

Yes.

A very unpleasant reality. Trust Windblower to rake it up.

 

[Spring Onion]

Accept my apologies here. I didn't go through the conversation between you and Ranjeet (which I've done now) . I jumped in between & misinterpreted the conversation. Further, I've deleted all my Posts from this thread, so that it doesn't deviates from the actual topic.

Thank you dear. Stay Blessed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Honestly , I have never ever heard "untouchable Muslims" here in India. I don't know from where these "rant brigade" find new words everyday for Muslims only in Mr Modi regime. I know there are mostly converted Muslims lives here in south Asia but how do you find those who were dalit or who were not? Once one becomes Muslim , he is only Muslim in common sense.

Please. It is not fair to claim that anything that we don't personally know about doesn't exist, or isn't true. Look up 'pasmanda' or consult Khalid Anis Ansari (look him up; he teaches at a private university).

Term Dalit Muslim is Flawed.

I am afraid not.