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Who Would Win A Conflict In The South China Sea: The Infographic

The Chart is GREATLY UNDERESTIMATING the US 7th and pacific fleet. The US Pacific feet in Pearl Harbor is not only one CBG, but 5, and the USN also have 2 Assault group (4 LHD) plus its escort,

For the US Pacific fleet (3rd + 7th Fleet), you are looking at

PacificTheaterSurfaceShipsv2.jpg
 
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WEEKEND EDITION MAY 29-31, 2015
Pivot Insanity
Why is Obama Goading China?
by MIKE WHITNEY
US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter is willing to risk a war with China in order to defend “freedom of navigation” in the South China Sea. Speaking in Honolulu, Hawaii on Wednesday, Carter issued his “most forceful” warning yet, demanding “an immediate and lasting halt to land reclamation” by China in the disputed Spratly Islands.

Carter said: “There should be no mistake: The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows, as we do all around the world.” He also added that the United States intended to remain “the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come.”

In order to show Chinese leaders “who’s the boss”, Carter has threatened to deploy US warships and surveillance aircraft to within twelve miles of the islands that China claims are within their territorial waters. Not surprisingly, the US is challenging China under the provisions of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, a document the US has stubbornly refused to ratify. But that’s neither here nor there for the bellicose Carter whose insatiable appetite for confrontation makes him the most reckless Sec-Def since Donald Rumsfeld.

So what’s this really all about? Why does Washington care so much about a couple hundred yards of sand piled up on reefs reefs in the South China Sea? What danger does that pose to US national security? And, haven’t Vietnam, Taiwan and the Philippines all engaged in similar “land reclamation” activities without raising hackles in DC?

Of course, they have. The whole thing is a joke. Just like Carter’s claim that he’s defending the lofty principal of “freedom of navigation” is a joke. China has never blocked shipping lanes or seized boats sailing in international waters. Never. The same cannot be said of the United States that just recently blocked an Iranian ship loaded with humanitarian relief–food, water and critical medical supplies–headed to starving refugees in Yemen. Of course, when the US does it, it’s okay.


The point is, Washington doesn’t give a hoot about the Spratly Islands; it’s just a pretext to slap China around and show them who’s running the show in their own backyard. Carter even admits as much in his statement above when he says that the US plans to be “the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come.” China knows what that means. It means “This is our planet, so you’d better shape up or you’re going to find yourself in a world of hurt.” That’s exactly what it means.

So let’s cut to the chase and try to explain what’s really going on, because pretty soon no one is going to be talking about Ukraine, Syria or Yemen because all eyes are going to be focused on China where our madhatter Secretary of Defense is trying to start a third world war.

Here’s the scoop: Washington has abandoned its China policy of “containment” and moved on to Plan B: Isolation, intimidation and confrontation. In my opinion, this is why the powerbrokers behind Obama dumped Hagel. Hagel just wasn’t hawkish enough for the job. They wanted a died-in-the-wool, warmongering neocon, like Carter, who is, quite likely, the most dangerous man in the world.

Carter’s assignment is to implement the belligerent new policy of incitement and conflict. His actions will prove to the skeptics that Washington is no longer interested in integrating China into the US-led system. Rather, China has become a the biggest threat to Washington’s plan to pivot to Asia. And, just to remind readers how important the pivot is to America’s future, here’s an Obama quote I lifted up from Tom Engelhardt’s latest titled “Superpower in Distress”:

“After a decade in which we fought two wars that cost us dearly, in blood and treasure, the United States is turning our attention to the vast potential of the Asia Pacific region….As we end today’s wars, I have directed my national security team to make our presence and mission in the Asia Pacific a top priority.”

The so called pivot is Washington’s “top priority”, which means that China’s unprecedented ascendency must be slowed and its regional influence curtailed. Thus, the dust up over the Spratly Islands will be used in the same way the US has used other incidents, that is, by demonizing China’s leaders in the media, by assembling a coalition that will publicly oppose China’s activities, by implementing harsh economic sanctions, by launching asymmetrical attacks on China’s currency and financial markets, by excluding China from critical trade agreements, and by inciting social unrest (color-coded revolution) through the support of dissidents living in China. These are the all-too-familiar signs of US meddling directed at “emerging rivals” who threaten US global hegemony. China now finds itself at the top of the list.

US powerbrokers know that bullying China involves significant risks for themselves and the world. Even so, they have decided to pursue this new policy and force a confrontation. Why? Why would they embark on a strategy so fraught with danger?

The answer is: They don’t see any way around it. They’ve tried containment and it hasn’t worked. China’s growing like crazy and its regional influence threatens to leave the US on the outside looking in. Carter even admitted as much in a recent speech he gave at the McCain Institute at Arizona State University. He said: “We already see countries in the region trying to carve up these markets…forging many separate trade agreements in recent years, some based on pressure and special arrangements…. Agreements that…..leave us on the sidelines. That risks America’s access to these growing markets. We must all decide if we are going to let that happen. If we’re going to help boost our exports and our economy…and cement our influence and leadership in the fastest-growing region in the world; or if, instead, we’re going to take ourselves out of the game.”

See? It’s all about markets. It’s all about money. Here’s more from Carter’s speech: (The) ” Asia-Pacific…is the defining region for our nation’s future”… “Half of humanity will live there by 2050″ and that “more than half of the global middle class and its accompanying consumption will come from that region.”….”There are already more than 525 million middle class consumers in Asia, and we expect there to be 3.2 billion in the region by 2030…President Obama and I want to ensure that… businesses can successfully compete for all these potential customers. ….Over the next century, no region will matter more… for American prosperity.”

This is why the Obama administration is making a general nuisance of itself in the South China Sea. It’s so the big US mega-corporations will have new customers for their IPADs and toaster ovens.

For that, they are willing to risk a nuclear war.


MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at fergiewhitney@msn.com.
Why is Obama Goading China? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
 
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Dude, you've summed it up quite impressively - most logical conclusions regarding SCS in a long time. Good job!

@Horus, any TTA spots open?

It's so typical of the barbarian states to focus exclusively on military assets and numbers. They, in their atavistic simplicity, are obsessed with sticks and stones and spectacles, and they have no comprehension of China's overwhelming intangible advantages. Simply too nuanced for their comprehension. So even though China has overwhelming firepower any in local theaters, China's greatest weapons are actually:
- Time: It's trite to mention that China remains the fastest growing major economy. In absolute terms, we add more to our economy than anyone else does. Every passing minute incrementally shifts more advantage to us. Furthermore, pertinent to the SCS theatre though is that every passing minute in the SCS means that our 'facts on the ground' are solidified. And possession is 9/10s of the law. In 20 years time, it will be hard to overturn 20 years of factual precedent.
- Initiative: China is the only player capable of 'placing stones on the board', and we do so every turn with yet more island reclamation. VN and PH lack the industrial capacity to reclaim islands anywhere on the scale we do, and the US is not a party to the dispute but an interloper, which is why they can only make reactive moves like shuffling military assets around.
- Resolve: China has the stomach for war, but it's questionable whether the others do. That's because we're defending our sovereignty, and there's too much to lose if we refuse to do so. Conversely, the other states know deep in the hearts that their claims are illegitimate; they're merely trying to subvert our sovereignty. The failure of their expansionist plans is not an existential threat to them, but an outcome they can live with. Especially the case with the US; their whole involvement stems from a 'freedom of navigation' canard that makes as much sense as the justification for invading Iraq (Saddam did 9/11 and has WMDs!), the kind of lie that will haunt them and corrode their morale if a shooting war breaks out. Our bottom line is that much higher than others.
 
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China will win, obviously, but may pay huge cost. Philippines been fully destroyed, America start to say goodby to their supa powa.
I guess the result.
 
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It's so typical of the barbarian states to focus exclusively on military assets and numbers. They, in their atavistic simplicity, are obsessed with sticks and stones and spectacles, and they have no comprehension of China's overwhelming intangible advantages. Simply too nuanced for their comprehension. So even though China has overwhelming firepower any in local theaters, China's greatest weapons are actually:
- Time: It's trite to mention that China remains the fastest growing major economy. In absolute terms, we add more to our economy than anyone else does. Every passing minute incrementally shifts more advantage to us. Furthermore, pertinent to the SCS theatre though is that every passing minute in the SCS means that our 'facts on the ground' are solidified. And possession is 9/10s of the law. In 20 years time, it will be hard to overturn 20 years of factual precedent.
- Initiative: China is the only player capable of 'placing stones on the board', and we do so every turn with yet more island reclamation. VN and PH lack the industrial capacity to reclaim islands anywhere on the scale we do, and the US is not a party to the dispute but an interloper, which is why they can only make reactive moves like shuffling military assets around.
- Resolve: China has the stomach for war, but it's questionable whether the others do. That's because we're defending our sovereignty, and there's too much to lose if we refuse to do so. Conversely, the other states know deep in the hearts that their claims are illegitimate; they're merely trying to subvert our sovereignty. The failure of their expansionist plans is not an existential threat to them, but an outcome they can live with. Especially the case with the US; their whole involvement stems from a 'freedom of navigation' canard that makes as much sense as the justification for invading Iraq (Saddam did 9/11 and has WMDs!), the kind of lie that will haunt them and corrode their morale if a shooting war breaks out. Our bottom line is that much higher than others.
dude, people can hardly understand you, I wanna give you a tip: while you speak, take at least the "made in russia" boot out of your mouth.
 
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@dlclong

Nice posting of the article

The article itself smells every bit of "barbarism" and the Americans are threatening to execute a rendition of the customarily and very stale tactics of playing victim's role giving them an excuse to brutally intruding into 12 nm which is the sovereignty confine of our Territorial Waters. Do they think we will do nothing against the intrusion?

Hawkish Carter is also contradicting himself:

First he indicated

"In order to show Chinese leaders “who’s the boss”, Carter has threatened to deploy US warships and surveillance aircraft to within twelve miles of the islands that China claims are within their territorial waters."

and then he said:

Here’s more from Carter’s speech: (The) ” Asia-Pacific…is the defining region for our nation’s future”… “Half of humanity will live there by 2050″ and that “more than half of the global middle class and its accompanying consumption will come from that region.”….”There are already more than 525 million middle class consumers in Asia, and we expect there to be 3.2 billion in the region by 2030…President Obama and I want to ensure that… businesses can successfully compete for all these potential customers. ….Over the next century, no region will matter more… for American prosperity.” .

China is the driving economic force within the area and in the world and if you expect the size of middle class consumers to meet the stated target, are you going to fight a full scale war against China to achieve the aim or are you going to work with us for economic benefits that will be spread across the region and world?

I wish Carter had known of what is the major ethnic composition of the growing middle class in the area before he delivered his speech



images

Guizhou Dance Troupe
 
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It's so typical of the barbarian states to focus exclusively on military assets and numbers. They, in their atavistic simplicity, are obsessed with sticks and stones and spectacles, and they have no comprehension of China's overwhelming intangible advantages. Simply too nuanced for their comprehension. So even though China has overwhelming firepower any in local theaters, China's greatest weapons are actually:
- Time: It's trite to mention that China remains the fastest growing major economy. In absolute terms, we add more to our economy than anyone else does. Every passing minute incrementally shifts more advantage to us. Furthermore, pertinent to the SCS theatre though is that every passing minute in the SCS means that our 'facts on the ground' are solidified. And possession is 9/10s of the law. In 20 years time, it will be hard to overturn 20 years of factual precedent.
- Initiative: China is the only player capable of 'placing stones on the board', and we do so every turn with yet more island reclamation. VN and PH lack the industrial capacity to reclaim islands anywhere on the scale we do, and the US is not a party to the dispute but an interloper, which is why they can only make reactive moves like shuffling military assets around.
- Resolve: China has the stomach for war, but it's questionable whether the others do. That's because we're defending our sovereignty, and there's too much to lose if we refuse to do so. Conversely, the other states know deep in the hearts that their claims are illegitimate; they're merely trying to subvert our sovereignty. The failure of their expansionist plans is not an existential threat to them, but an outcome they can live with. Especially the case with the US; their whole involvement stems from a 'freedom of navigation' canard that makes as much sense as the justification for invading Iraq (Saddam did 9/11 and has WMDs!), the kind of lie that will haunt them and corrode their morale if a shooting war breaks out. Our bottom line is that much higher than others.
I'm sure dowager empress Cixi had a similar train of thought circa 1894...
 
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First....Completely wrong assumption...

USA is not going to place 1 CBG,but possibly more than 2 along with other vessels,if things heat up a little bit..and if they decide to go to war,then God Save China(Even Commies going to say that)..

why???

I'm going to give a simple account..

Aspect-Gulf War..

USN Fleet---

Super Carrier--

1.USS America
2.USS John F. Kennedy
3.USS Midway(Not Super Carrier though)
4.USS Ranger
5.USS Saratoga
6.USS Theodore Roosevelt


Guided Missile Cruiser,Destroyer,Frigates,Battleships etc--

1.USS Bunker Hill
2.USS Caron
3.USS Curts
4.USS Fife
5.USS Ford
6.USS Hawes
7.USS Horne
8.USS Kidd
9.USS Jarrett
10.USS Leftwich
11.USS MacDonough
12.USS McInerney
13.USS Missouri
14.USS Mobile Bay
15.USS Nicholas
16.USS Normandy
17.USS Oldendorf
18.USS Paul F. Foster
19.USS Princeton
20.USS Vreeland
21.USS Worden
22.USS Wisconsin

Amphibious Task Force-

18 ships(Comprising few AAS,which can carry multiple aircrafts,helos etc)

along with multiple support ships......


This force is against a country which doesn't have a proper navy.Now imagine what they're going to use if something like US-Sino war will happen..

also,USA's main power is not its Armed Forces,but they way they acquire allies..in any war breaks out,China will experience half of Asia will support USA with Ships,Supplies and manpower,while China will stay alone..thats good for Hollywood Movies perhaps(Hero fighting against villain all alone),but actually pretty scary during war.
 
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Why cant china be in peaceful state

The question should be directed to the USA worldwide and to India for your problems that arise internally and in S Asia

images


First....Completely wrong assumption...

USA is not going to place 1 CBG,but possibly more than 2 along with other vessels,if things heat up a little bit..and if they decide to go to war,then God Save China(Even Commies going to say that)..

why???

I'm going to give a simple account..

Aspect-Gulf War..

USN Fleet---

Super Carrier--

1.USS America
2.USS John F. Kennedy
3.USS Midway(Not Super Carrier though)
4.USS Ranger
5.USS Saratoga
6.USS Theodore Roosevelt


Guided Missile Cruiser,Destroyer,Frigates,Battleships etc--

1.USS Bunker Hill
2.USS Caron
3.USS Curts
4.USS Fife
5.USS Ford
6.USS Hawes
7.USS Horne
8.USS Kidd
9.USS Jarrett
10.USS Leftwich
11.USS MacDonough
12.USS McInerney
13.USS Missouri
14.USS Mobile Bay
15.USS Nicholas
16.USS Normandy
17.USS Oldendorf
18.USS Paul F. Foster
19.USS Princeton
20.USS Vreeland
21.USS Worden
22.USS Wisconsin

Amphibious Task Force-

18 ships(Comprising few AAS,which can carry multiple aircrafts,helos etc)

along with multiple support ships......


This force is against a country which doesn't have a proper navy.Now imagine what they're going to use if something like US-Sino war will happen..

also,USA's main power is not its Armed Forces,but they way they acquire allies..in any war breaks out,China will experience half of Asia will support USA with Ships,Supplies and manpower,while China will stay alone..thats good for Hollywood Movies perhaps(Hero fighting against villain all alone),but actually pretty scary during war.

Unrealistic propositions
That scenario amounts to a WW3 and a nuclear one
Dont think India will be left unscathed either
 
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