Who Was The Best Fighter Pilot Ever ?

[fatman17]

The crown of the best fighter pilot ever shall remain with the Erich Hartmann. Perhaps till the top 20, there are only german pilots. There may be many legendary leaders, inspirers and courageous pilots but still the crown goes to one with maximum kills simply because the primary job of a fighter pilot is to destroy enemy aircraft, even leadership and motivation are secondary. Now there may be many capable pilots who never got the chance to prove their skills but unfortunately without proof nothing can be claimed.

As some other memeber also pointed out, we can still talk of best jet fighter pilot or best pilots in specific wars. The top scorer in jet age is Goira Esptein of IDF/AF with 17 kills, more than being a triple ace.

Here I am presenting some of the few famous names in the categories of leaders, inspirers and shooters from Pakistan, as I think. Everyone is important in its place. Without the permission of leaders, potential shooters cant prove their skills. I have done a quick classification according to my limited knowledge and I may have missed many great names. There may be many unsung heroes who never came to the limelight.


Shooters

M M Alam, Saif-ul-Azam, Fl Offr Shams of No.14 squadron who shot three IAF fighters (1971), Khalid Mahmood, Hamid Qadri (both kills by guns). There is no kill like a gun kill and among fighter pilots,a gun kill is highly respected.

Leaders

Masroor Hussain,M Z Masood,Fawad S Hussain,Hakimullah, Sarfarz Rafiqui

Inspirers

Fl Lt Shams who flew wartime missions in B-57 with kidneys stones (1965), Pilot Offr Rashid Minhas, MHK Dotani, Alauddin Butch. Also a ground officer of No.14 Sqn who was not GDP but flew air combat mission and embraced shadat (I forgot his name).


Alam and Saif were not tall and thus could better tolerate gs than others having more height. Douglas Badder flew with artificial legs and even it was said that he could pull more gs (hence tight turns) because of absence of legs. Normally blood goes down from head towards the legs during pulling positive gs.

Pilots are lucky as compared to submarine, ship or tank commanders because they take the credit of kills all alone. The risk levels are almost the same for everyone.

Despite all the stories of courage and valour, Pakistan is lacking aces with just one in the history. India seems to be worse than Pakistan by not having a single ace. At least I dont know any Indian ace and I would like to know if there is someone. During Vietnam war, the USAF was under immense pressure to produce ace as the US Navy had produced several aces already and there was a race towards maximum aces.

The word "ace" is also used for the tank commander if he has destroyed the required number of tanks but it has been never used (as I know) for submarine skipper or ship captain. Perhaps destroying five subs or five ships looks extremely difficult. But at the same time, there were many german U-boat commanders who destroyed too many ships during Atlantic convoy war.

give them time they will make one up!

 

[Muradk]

Ouch Ouch that hurts

 

[su-47]

i think the greatest fighter pilot ever was Eric Hartmann. aside from shooting down 352 aircraft, he was also never shot out of the sky, which is remarkable considering he was fighting over a period of over 3 years against heavy odds. he also never lost a wingman. if that doesnt speak for itself, i dunno what does. and he was flying against russian Yaks which were considerably more advanced than his Messerschmitt Bf-109.

NB: I made a mistake. hartmann did lose a wingman. he once made a claim that he was proud of never losing a wingman, but later recounted an event where he lost one wingman.

But even then, losing only one wingman in over 3 years of intense fighting against heavy odds is still almost impossible.

 

[timmy]

Just stumbled across in what has to be, and has the potential to be one of the most captivating forums on the net. This discussion, debate of "Who Was The Best Fighter Pilot Ever" can go on for eternity...of course there can be a list of "Top Ten" Top Guns of all times belonging to different jet ages, from different countries, having the most ferocious of dog fights from different era’s.

No doubt the “Red Baron” will top the list…followed by a few handful of other German and British WWI and WWII aces!!! However since I am familiar with a name that has come up i.e. Air Comdr (R) Dotani...I would like to share some of my experiences when I came across one of his course-mates at a friends place, who flew with him during PAF’s High-Mark 85/86 exercise. We were reading the book “14 Squadron: The Tail Choppers - Celebrating 50 Years of Excellence”...my eyes popped-out when I read that he is the only Fighter Pilot in the world who flew an F-16 with one leg (he lost his other leg in an accident), thus making him the only Fighter Pilot in the world to not only fly a Supersonic jet but also become a member of the elite 9-G club. The only other pilot to have flown with artificial leg/legs was Douglas Bader from the RAF during WWII. He flew Spitfires…whereas Air Comdr Dotani flew the F-16! I was told that he flew more missions in the 1971 War than anyone else…sometimes flying almost 3/4 missions a day, and those too alone…going on CAP…venturing across the border for spy missions over Indian Air Fields…etc...mixing up with old veterans and exchanging anecdotes is something I love...one gets that feeling of having a trip down the memory lane...and that film starts rolling in your mind of how the wars were fought and how Fighter Pilots learn and love to play with fire!!!

I hope someone else can shed some more light on the Red Baron’s personal diary (if he left any!) or even on Douglas Bader’s WWII feats…or even Air Comdr Dotani’s Fighting Falcon flight (who by the way also shot down a Gnat/Hunter or two!!!).

 

[x_man]

I happened to meet Air Cdre Dotani at Rawalpindi back in 1986/87....full of life and a legend....Just to put word into picture , he is standing on extreme right..



As far as the PAFs records are concerned , there are many..

First ever loop of four B-57s..

First formation loop of sixteen F-86s

First ever capture of an enemy fighter from another fighter ( IAF GNATs force landing by F-104s)

Feat of MM Alam needs no explanation...

Saif ul Azams kills during Arab-Israel war..

First ever shooting down of a UAV from a fighter aircraft..

I can go on and on......With so limited resources and always pitched against heavy odds, it never let us down.....You guys should be proud of your Airforce...

 

[fatman17]

Just stumbled across in what has to be, and has the potential to be one of the most captivating forums on the net. This discussion, debate of "Who Was The Best Fighter Pilot Ever" can go on for eternity...of course there can be a list of "Top Ten" Top Guns of all times belonging to different jet ages, from different countries, having the most ferocious of dog fights from different era’s.

No doubt the “Red Baron” will top the list…followed by a few handful of other German and British WWI and WWII aces!!! However since I am familiar with a name that has come up i.e. Air Comdr (R) Dotani...I would like to share some of my experiences when I came across one of his course-mates at a friends place, who flew with him during PAF’s High-Mark 85/86 exercise. We were reading the book “14 Squadron: The Tail Choppers - Celebrating 50 Years of Excellence”...my eyes popped-out when I read that he is the only Fighter Pilot in the world who flew an F-16 with one leg (he lost his other leg in an accident), thus making him the only Fighter Pilot in the world to not only fly a Supersonic jet but also become a member of the elite 9-G club. The only other pilot to have flown with artificial leg/legs was Douglas Bader from the RAF during WWII. He flew Spitfires…whereas Air Comdr Dotani flew the F-16! I was told that he flew more missions in the 1971 War than anyone else…sometimes flying almost 3/4 missions a day, and those too alone…going on CAP…venturing across the border for spy missions over Indian Air Fields…etc...mixing up with old veterans and exchanging anecdotes is something I love...one gets that feeling of having a trip down the memory lane...and that film starts rolling in your mind of how the wars were fought and how Fighter Pilots learn and love to play with fire!!!

I hope someone else can shed some more light on the Red Baron’s personal diary (if he left any!) or even on Douglas Bader’s WWII feats…or even Air Comdr Dotani’s Fighting Falcon flight (who by the way also shot down a Gnat/Hunter or two!!!).

who was the Blue Max! or was it a fictional figure in a movie starring George Peppard.

 

[Muradk]

Air Cdre MHK Dotani's Fighting falcon Fight.
In 1986 he went for High Mark and the the OC Flying at sargodha Challenged him 1 VS 1 in a dogfight who was his student who had 1000 hr on F-16s, So the bet was that who ever losses will get lunch for CCS, 9 and 11 Sqd and they both agreed to it. It took Dotani 48 sec to get the OC flying in his gun sights. I have that photo I will post it on this thread you can see a smile on Dotani's face and the OC flying you can see his face and tell he got his *** kicked.

 

[blain2]

Sir post the picture. Also do you know anything about Sqn Ldr Sameen Mazhar?
Interview with Squadron Leader Sameen Mazhar

Seems to be a very proficient fighter pilot as well (Last I heard he had left PAF for greener pastures).

 

[blain2]

.You guys should be proud of your Airforce...

Sir, I think inside of Pakistan, there is not a service more admired and respected than the PAF...I say this even though I always have had a bias towards the PA for a multitude of reasons..

I guess this "against all odds" history and the "underdog" persona of PAF endear it to the masses.

 

[Muradk]

These photos have been given to me by Dotani as a gift to Defence PK , NEO Please do put your water mark .
The first was taken in 1986 when he flew the F-16 And broke the record sitting with the OC flying.

Second : Dotani being introduced to CAS of Bangladesh by ACM Hakimullah

about Mazhar: fighter flying is not a easy thing it takes a toll out of you and if you don't remain physically fit you start getting all kinds of medical problems specially heart problem. That is why a lot of good pilots have left PAF because they could not keep up with the physical.
Just look at the example above Dotani has one artificial leg and PAF said no flying but he stayed in PAF got him self back into shape , he used to run 15 miles every day and proved to PAF that he is physically fit to fly and people used to make fun of him the day he sat in the cockpit of F-16 and F-6 he shoot 12 CCS Instructors in one day, I wish you should have seen there faces I was present there, the same people who used to laugh came to him and said teach us this move teach us that move.

 

[x_man]

In the first pic, is Air Cdre Dotani sitting with Late AVM Razzaq?? Sir, why don’t you also invite Air Cdre Dotani to join Pakistan Def.....if he can spare some time , it will be great to have him here...

Blain...Sqn Ldr Sameen left airforce probably in 1996/97 due to his medical condition...In past 10 years or so, too many pilots got permanent unfit due to heart problems, high blood pressure, high sugar levels, migraine etc etc....Systems getting complex and the pilot workload increasing....Also due to cable/internet , after long working hours people prefer staying indoors , instead of getting out and doing any physical activity....as Sir Murad K said, fighter flying looks and feels good, but it does take heavy toll on your body in a long run.....

 

[Muradk]

In the first pic, is Air Cdre Dotani sitting with Late AVM Razzaq?? Sir, why don’t you also invite Air Cdre Dotani to join Pakistan Def.....if he can spare some time , it will be great to have him here...

Blain...Sqn Ldr Sameen left airforce probably in 1996/97 due to his medical condition...In past 10 years or so, too many pilots got permanent unfit due to heart problems, high blood pressure, high sugar levels, migraine etc etc....Systems getting complex and the pilot workload increasing....Also due to cable/internet , after long working hours people prefer staying indoors , instead of getting out and doing any physical activity....as Sir Murad K said, fighter flying looks and feels good, but it does take heavy toll on your body in a long run.....

yes Its Late AVM Razzaq ( Died with Musaf ) his Student from Risalpure and 9 OCU.

 

[BATMAN]

Before the photos being posted, I was wondering if we have more pilots flying with artificial legs.
Sheer inspiration. I hope new pilots will not waste the opportunity of learning from the legend as and when possible.

 

[Neo]

Just look at the example above Dotani has one artificial leg and PAF said no flying but he stayed in PAF got him self back into shape , he used to run 15 miles every day and proved to PAF that he is physically fit to fly and people used to make fun of him the day he sat in the cockpit of F-16 and F-6 he shoot 12 CCS Instructors in one day, I wish you should have seen there faces I was present there, the same people who used to laugh came to him and said teach us this move teach us that move.

Well there's my vote/nomination for the best pilot the world's ever seen: Dotani!

 

[araz]

Neo and MuradK .
Whereas I am becoming increasingly inclined towards A Cdre Dhotani, I still believe that The Red Baron was perhaps the best and most famous. MuradK Sahib, you have not commented on MM Alam. What did you think about him. Although the public fora are full of praise for him, could I possibly request your technical input regarding his career and capability.
Thanks in advance
Araz