Who is an Islamophobe ?

[KingMamba]

When non-muslims convert to Islam and kind of celebrations that you get to see , even from regular muslims , If that makes me believe they have an agenda or an ulterior motive which makes me suspicious , then am I an Islamophobe .

How else am i supposed to feel about those celebrations ?

In almost all Non-muslims countries , muslim population is increasing due to fertility rates or immigration .

In almost all Muslim countries , non-muslim population is going down and to be honest most of the time they don't seem bothered about it , in fact any more conversions to Islam are considered welcome .

What is a non-muslim supposed to feel except that Muslims want the whole world to turn muslim ?

Yeah well Muslims only celebrate when people convert or to put it a better way revert is because we rejoice that they are saved which Christianity and Judaism also believe in so it is not such a big deal.

 

[KS]

Yes it does for two reasons, one you guys cannot change the past so need to get over it and accept the reality that you are surrounded by Islam and secondly what were you guys going to do even if the invasions never occurred?? Unless you isolated yourselves from Muslims everywhere eventually you would have come across Islam one way or another and conversions would occur regardless as Islam is a proselytizing religion.

Thanks for your answers, but what I was looking was a Yes/No type of answer.

Regarding the third part, so much has happened and continues to happen that "getting over" is not that easy as you make it out to be. If the invasions had not happened then there would have not been such a bad blood even if conversions took place.

 

[KingMamba]

Wickerman, from the tone and tenor of your post I conclude that you just another Indian atheist who wants to prove his atheistic credentials by having a go at Hinduism. Coming from a place that had one such major movement early in this century and somehow weathered it, I can judge the pattern. No, its perfectly fine. Since this country is Hindu majority and most of the culture feeds off the religion atheists involuntarily tend to target it. Maybe if the majority were Christian you would have tageted christianity. But it would be finer if the atheists could just maintain an equidistance from all religions.

You cannot argue with atheists, in their pursuit to prove that there is no God they themselves have become a religion in their own right.

 

[KS]

Yeah well Muslims only celebrate when people convert or to put it a better way revert is because we rejoice that they are saved which Christianity and Judaism also believe in so it is not such a big deal.

Wrong on that count. Judaism does not accept converts mostly. There are very elaborate,difficult process for you to become a jew. Its Islam and Christianity that have this fetish for numbers.

 

[KingMamba]

Thanks for your answers, but what I was looking was a Yes/No type of answer.

Regarding the third part, so much has happened and continues to happen that "getting over" is not that easy as you make it out to be. If the invasions had not happened then there would have not been such a bad blood even if conversions took place.

Why did the invasions happen? Also if we cannot get over all the bad blood than perhaps maybe we should just all start killing one another because that is what it comes down to either forgive and forget or live with having to look over your shoulder worrying about the next chap looking for retribution.

Wrong on that count. Judaism does not accept converts mostly. There are very elaborate,difficult process for you to become a jew. Its Islam and Christianity that have this fetish for numbers.

You just contradicted yourself, they do accept converts it does not matter how hard it is but the Jews that do not accept converts it is usually because they believe you have to be born a Jew or else you are screwed.

 

[KingMamba]

KS if you wanted a yes or no answer than I say yes and if you feel the way that you described than fine I hold no ill will towards you.

 

[KS]

Why did the invasions happen? Also if we cannot get over all the bad blood than perhaps maybe we should just all start killing one another because that is what it comes down to either forgive and forget or live with having to look over your shoulder worrying about the next chap looking for retribution.

Many reasons -- religious bigotry among other things. When today we go some off our holy places and see them destroyed, dilapidated, those structures of such grandeur in utter ruins, or worse still other religious structures on top of them, it becomes easier said than done. And no, it does not mean we go killing the next person we see..but to ask for forgetting and forgiving without some any re-conciliatory action is not going to bear fruit. And calling that Islamophobia is utterly injustified.

You just contradicted yourself, they do accept converts it does not matter how hard it is but the Jews that do not accept converts it is usually because they believe you have to be born a Jew or else you are screwed.

What I meant is Jews dont go around knocking doors, asking "have you been delivered" .

KS if you wanted a yes or no answer than I say yes and if you feel the way that you described than fine I hold no ill will towards you.

Its not about ill will or not - its about whether labelling such a person Islamophobe is justified or not.

Not every human being likes everything on the planet. Why go labelling him as if he is doing a crime, is my question.

 

[KingMamba]

Many reasons -- religious bigotry among other things. When today we go some off our holy places and see them destroyed, dilapidated, those structures of such grandeur in utter ruins, or worse still mosques on top of them, it becomes easier said than done. And no, it does not mean we go killing the next person we see..but to ask for forgetting and forgiving without some any re-conciliatory action is not going to bear fruit. And calling that Islamophobia is utterly injustified.




What I meant is Jews dont go around knocking doors, asking "have you been delivered" .

Neither do Muslims, I have yet to see Muslim missionaries who are that devout that they will go to those lengths like the Evangelicals do. Than again Evangelical Christians are nuts. Muslims and Jews for the most part have the same conversion basis if you walk into a mosque or a synagogue they will tell you whatever you want to know.

 

[KS]

What I am trying to say is being an Islamophobe is neither a fashion statement or a crime. People should be free to make their own choices and others dont have the rights to label them as right or wrong.

Neither do Muslims, I have yet to see Muslim missionaries who are that devout that they will go to those lengths like the Evangelicals do. Than again Evangelical Christians are nuts. Muslims and Jews for the most part have the same conversion basis if you walk into a mosque or a synagogue they will tell you whatever you want to know.

I'm sorry perhaps not being from the third world is clouding your judgement. But there are plenty cases of forced conversions among Muslim populations in third world countries. Muslims in America are not a the reflection of the Muslims elsewhere.

 

[KingMamba]

What I am trying to say is being an Islamophobe is neither a fashion statement or a crime. People should be free to make their own choices and others dont have the rights to label them as right or wrong.

Who said it is a crime? Heck who said being labelled one should even bother you? If someone were to call me a racist and I knew that I was a racist I do not see why it would bother me in the slightest. (I am not a racist just an example)

As for the invasions they started because of Sindhi pirates continuously kidnapping Muslims and from then on India was a battle ground for civilizations and blood was shed on BOTH sides. Do not act as though Hindus did not fight back because you guys wouldn't be here today if you hadn't or at least you would have been Muslim. Also if Muslims had not plundered India someone else would have anyway as you saw with the British who stole away countless riches from the subcontinent, I mean their queen still wears our jewel on her head. Only in that scenario perhaps Christianity would have been the largest minority religion.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Yeah well Muslims only celebrate when people convert or to put it a better way revert is because we rejoice that they are saved which Christianity and Judaism also believe in so it is not such a big deal.

No , you can't use the term revert . It is about conversion that i am specifically talking about , the kind that took place on live television in Pakistan a few days ago with people celebrating .

 

[KS]

Who said it is a crime? Heck who said being labelled one should even bother you? If someone were to call me a racist and I knew that I was a racist I do not see why it would bother me in the slightest. (I am not a racist just an example)

When people try to win arguments in both real and online world by labelling the other as Islamophobe without trying to counter the points raised, it becomes an issue.

As for the invasions they started because of Sindhi pirates continuously kidnapping Muslims and from then on India was a battle ground for civilizations and blood was shed on BOTH sides. Do not act as though Hindus did not fight back because you guys wouldn't be here today if you hadn't or at least you would have been Muslim. Also if Muslims had not plundered India someone else would have anyway as you saw with the British who stole away countless riches from the subcontinent, I mean their queen still wears our jewel on her head. Only in that scenario perhaps Christianity would have been the largest minority religion.

Dude the Arab invasions were nothing. They were repelled trully and wholly and the Caliph himself gave up on expansion into India. So the pirates and protection of trade routes part I dont care about. Also there are conflicting versions on the actions of MBQ - some good , some bad..so I would reserve my judgement on him. He was inconsequential. A mere blip on the radar. It is further 3 centuries down the line that the real trouble started. And yes, by God we defended. That is our right. But if I were you I would not justify just pure and whole looting and plundering missions with the added religious bigotry carried out by the Turks and Turco-Mongols.

And I would disagree with the claim that had one set of invaders not plundered, others would have. They might but also they might not have.

Anyway I have made my points I wanted to make. That's it from my side.

 

[jaunty]

A few things that I don't like about Muslims--

1) They don't respect other religious beliefs and behave in a way that everything else except Islam is false.
2) When in minority they are quick to play the victim card, but when in numbers they like to dominate others.
3) Can't think beyond religion.

If these make me Islamophobe so be it. I have had close Muslim friends all my life, I have no problem with Muslims at personal level.

 

[KingMamba]

When people try to win arguments in both real and online world by labelling the other as Islamophobe without trying to counter the points raised, it becomes an issue.



Dude the Arab invasions were nothing. They were repelled trully and wholly and the Caliph himself gave up on expansion into India. So the pirates and protection of trade routes part I dont care about. Also there are conflicting versions on the actions of MBQ - some good , some bad..so I would reserve my judgement on him. He was inconsequential. A mere blip on the radar. It is further 3 centuries down the line that the real trouble started. And yes, by God we defended. That is our right. But if I were you I would not justify just pure and whole looting and plundering missions with the added religious bigotry carried out by the Turks and Turco-Mongols.

And I would disagree with the claim that had one set of invaders not plundered, others would have. They might but also they might not have.

Anyway I have made my points I wanted to make. That's it from my side.

I have labelled someone an Islamophobe before on this forum but that was with good reason. Okay so someone is asking a question in regards to Muslims and I answer it and then they follow that up with a declaration that no you are wrong this is the way it is than what conclusion can I come to?? Despite giving example to why what I say is the reality they disagree and stick to their own bigoted belief. If you have already formed a negative opinion about Muslims than why bother to ask questions when you already believe you know all the answers?? In that case either you are a hater Islamophobe or are just a ******* troll.

Yes they would have and they did, the British did not rule the subcontinent for 200 years for fun it was for the riches and if they had not come the French would have or the Spanish or the Dutch, the possibilities were endless and back in that time if you were not expanding or at war with someone that in itself was a miracle. Heck the only reasons the people in the subcontinent were not expanding was because they were at war amongst themselves. Had they been one collective unit who knows how far they would have conquered.

Yes some of the Turkic conquerors were bigots but some weren't and a lot of the conversions did take place voluntarily you want to know why that is the truth?? Had there really been an attempt to eradicate Hinduism it would have succeeded because by that time most of the subcontinent was under Muslim rule. Yet you still find Hindus outside of the areas which Muslims had conquered in equal amounts to the places they had not reached. (Nepal, Bhutan, Uttar Pradesh, Travancore, and Sikkim)

 

[KS]

I have labelled someone an Islamophobe before on this forum but that was with good reason. Okay so someone is asking a question in regards to Muslims and I answer it and then they follow that up with a declaration that no you are wrong this is the way it is than what conclusion can I come to?? Despite giving example to why what I say is the reality they disagree and stick to their own bigoted belief. If you have already formed a negative opinion about Muslims than why bother to ask questions when you already believe you know all the answers?? In that case either you are a hater Islamophobe or are just a ******* troll.

Yes they would have and they did, the British did not rule the subcontinent for 200 years for fun it was for the riches and if they had not come the French would have or the Spanish or the Dutch, the possibilities were endless and back in that time if you were not expanding or at war with someone that in itself was a miracle. Heck the only reasons the people in the subcontinent were not expanding was because they were at war amongst themselves. Had they been one collective unit who knows how far the would have conquered.

During the time of the Mauryas, Palas they were pretty much united. Still no external conquests. Tht is one main fault of this civilization. It remained at content with itself and emphasis was given more on conquering the inner self than physical conquests.