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Who is an Islamophobe ?

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The difference is 1.6 billion people dont follow the history books as the word of God and take it upon themselves to do whatever it says.

KS if you have so many questions you can walk into mosques in the US and they can answer your questions with the appropriate verses.

Well then start calling Quran as a history book and not the Word of God every letter of which has to be followed by Muslims. That would remove the confusion as well.

You are not getting the point.

Nope Mr. Raja gave you wrong reasoning which is why religion should not discussed here on this forum to being with and this thread has gotten off topic although I like how you have a lot of questions you should visit a mosque.
 
Okay let me explain those verses talk about self defense, when the Muslims fought back in the day the order was to do so in self defense however if the enemy sues for peace to accept peace. Therefore since everything written in the Quran is for all times Muslims can only fight in self defense however if the enemy makes an offer for peace they must except it or any death that follows is haram.

I have not said anything differnt. I was just telling him that quran should understand in its proper historical context which layman/illeterate person cannot do without the help of expert/scholars/mufti ..
 
KS if you have so many questions you can walk into mosques in the US and they can answer your questions with the appropriate verses.

Nope Mr. Raja gave you wrong reasoning which is why religion should not discussed here on this forum to being with and this thread has gotten off topic although I like how you have a lot of questions you should visit a mosque.

Not to hurt your feelings but I'm not that interested in Islam to go to a mosque and all. Just asking you guys on the time I could spare here.
 
Not to hurt your feelings but I'm not that interested in Islam to go to a mosque and all. Just asking you guys on the time I could spare here.

No offense taken bro I just said it because we are not exactly scholars so whatever we tell you can be wrong which is why I do not like to talk religion lest I say something wrong and God holds me at fault for speaking without knowledge of faith.
 
Well then start calling Quran as a history book and not the Word of God every letter of which has to be followed by Muslims. That would remove the confusion as well.

You are not getting the point.

You did not get it. Quran is word of God but it has historical events and talk about life of prophets and events occurred during their life time..for example wars in past, stories of banu isreal, virgin birth of jesus , sacrfices of abaraham for God, story of Adam and eve etc.

Nope Mr. Raja gave you wrong reasoning which is why religion should not discussed here on this forum to being with and this thread has gotten off topic although I like how you have a lot of questions you should visit a mosque.

wrong reasoning? :what:

care to elaborate what wrong i said ?
 
You did not get it. Quran is word of God but it has historical events and talk about life of prophets and events occurred during their life time..for example wars in past, stories of banu isreal, virgin birth of jesus , sacrfices of abaraham for God, story of Adam and eve etc.

You worded it in such a way that I too read what you wrote the way he did and yeah there is a lot written about Prophets in the Quran in fact Jesus and Mary (Peace be upon them) are mentioned more often than Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
 
You did not get it. Quran is word of God but it has historical events and talk about life of prophets and events occurred during their life time..for example wars in past, stories of banu isreal, virgin birth of jesus , sacrfices of abaraham for God, story of Adam and eve etc.



wrong reasoning? :what:

care to elaborate what wrong i said ?

I already explained above.
 
You worded it in such a way that I too read what you wrote the way he did and yeah there is a lot written about Prophets in the Quran in fact Jesus and Mary (Peace be upon them) are mentioned more often than Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

actually i was referring to this

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics. examples are:

1. "Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practising their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non combatants.

2. "Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties

A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

3. Other examples


As an example of truncated verses is verse 5 in surah 9 that says "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush." -

Which when read as such will be understood simple as a command to kill the infidels.

However, the mentioned verse above is truncated from the verses that come before and that come after. When read the verses together you will understand that this killing of the polytheists are only for those who break their treaties with Muslims and prepare to attack them. Read the following verses including the one above to understand the full picture:

Quran says (surah 9:4 to 7):

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. (4) And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (5) And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. (6) How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. (7)



This explains that Quran commands Muslims to kill infidels and polytheists who attack them or who break their peace treaties with them

The following confirms that Quran does not call for killing infidels just because they are infidels:
1.
Quran says also )Surah 60: 8-9)

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (8) Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (9)

2. Quran says also (surah 5:69):

"Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. (69)"

source: wiki
 
So you wanna play the game, lets play.

I'm just continuing the game little hindus started....and now their ****s are burning :lol:
In US we dwarf you in every existing social and economic indicator and our temples are not being kept under surveillance. Same with Europe.

On a level playing ground you are no match for us except in population growth. Period.

In the U.S? A "minority" comparison? :rofl:

indians are a better minority ...but in "over-all" global comparison , Islamic World dwarfs little insignificant india by infinity...

Why are you comparing the minority comparisons? Most of the 'Muslims' in America did NOT come on 'work visa' like indians..companies hire indians to do their IT work...so obviously you'll have more pay...

American-Muslims perform better than average Americans..can I say "Oh see Muslims outperform Americans" :rofl: Yeah son..look at the global over-all picture... same is the case with india..so go dump your retardness in flush ...oh wait , you're an indian..indians don't have toilets! :yahoo:

Hint : The 10 largest economies overall are composed of 7 Christian, one atheist/confucianist, one shintoist and one Hindu majority. None Muslim. Take your theory and dump it in the potty.

Dummy , I compared regions where significant Muslim and non-Muslim populations reside together..isn't it? Overwhelming majority of your 7 'christian' economies reside in the WEST! I'm not comparing West vs this and that.... Which major Muslim majority country resides in Western Europe?

By Islamic world you mean Turkey or Somalia ?

Well lets say OIC ...it has Turkey and Somalia both...When you say EU...you mean EU...you don't ask "Greece or Germany" ...

But point remains : Muslim world , as a whole , over-whelming dwarfs little insignificant india in EVERY aspect of human existence...whether its GDP or Scientific Production...whether its military power or global political influence...where its cultural influence or education...whether its agricultural production or industrial might...whether is income per capita or middle-class..in EVERY aspect india's *** is spanked by giant Muslim world and YET , bhartis were calling Muslims 'backward' in this thread...I don't see them anymore...how come? Reality is too shocking for kids? :cry:
 
In the U.S? A "minority" comparison? :rofl:

indians are a better minority ...but in "over-all" global comparison , Islamic World dwarfs little insignificant india by infinity...

Why are you comparing the minority comparisons? Most of the 'Muslims' in America did NOT come on 'work visa' like indians..companies hire indians to do their IT work...so obviously you'll have more pay...

American-Muslims perform better than average Americans..can I say "Oh see Muslims outperform Americans" :rofl: Yeah son..look at the global over-all picture... same is the case with india..so go dump your retardness in flush ...oh wait , you're an indian..indians don't have toilets! :yahoo:

Isn't american muslims a minority just like american hindus..?You were whining about performance of minority american muslims..And when compared to minority hindu and minority jews you are justifying with some "overall pictures"..Its funny to see the twisted comparisons you make to prove superiority of "muslim world"



But point remains : Muslim world , as a whole , over-whelming dwarfs little insignificant india in EVERY aspect of human existence...whether its GDP or Scientific Production...whether its military power or global political influence...where its cultural influence or education...whether its agricultural production or industrial might...whether is income per capita or middle-class..in EVERY aspect india's *** is spanked by giant Muslim world and YET , bhartis were calling Muslims 'backward' in this thread...I don't see them anymore...how come? Reality is too shocking for kids? :cry:

Again stupid comparison..When comparing Islamic world as a whole,compare it to non muslim world or christian world or something like that...When muslim nations are compared to india,None have higher gdp than india,None have better scientific output or industrial production than india,None have more agricultural production than india..While many have better per capita income and hdi than india..
 
Guys please!

This is not a Muslims versus the World (Christian or Hindu or whatever) thread.

I am grateful for the opportunity provided for a thread on this to run here.

Please do not disappoint those who have contributed thus far and made it happen.

Please come back on topic.

Thank you.
 
Isn't american muslims a minority just like american hindus..?You were whining about performance of minority american muslims..And when compared to minority hindu and minority jews you are justifying with some "overall pictures"..Its funny to see the twisted comparisons you make to prove superiority of "muslim world"

I never said that Muslims are ahead of Americans..I just said that provided with opportunity , they can perform even better....

Secondly , it was funny to see indians saying someone backward..I'm just showing you your face..sorry. lol...

Again stupid comparison..When comparing Islamic world as a whole,compare it to non muslim world or christian world or something like that...When muslim nations are compared to india,None have higher gdp than india,None have better scientific output or industrial production than india,None have more agricultural production than india..While many have better per capita income and hdi than india..

Don't be a dumbass. When you compare China..you don't compare "China vs Non-Chinese world" etc....Even you don't compare "EU vs 'Non-EU' world....so grow up.

indians were blabbering about how Muslims are backward..it all started from there..and funny thing is..now no one has balls to come up and reply to my points...lol... How come Muslims are 'backward' when OIC sh!ts india in the face in EVERY parameter....

"OIC" is a functional body...so I CAN compare one entity (OIC) with the other big entity (india) ... Just like on 'higher level' , people compare EU ( one very developed entity) with United States (another very developed entity) ...so don't cry. Your kids started it...i'm just whoopin' their a$$ for the mistake...:lol:

Plus : I'm not comparing this vs that...I just compared Muslim populations and non-Muslim populations residing in same environment/regions in substantial numbers.. (Like Africa , S.East Asia , Turkey/Asia minor region etc) ....

And regarding 'india' vs any muslim nation...LAWL.... how can you compare 1.2 billion people with say 80 million people? YOUR guys were calling Muslims (as a WHOLE) backward so I just compared 1.6 billion people (Muslims) with 1.2 billion people (indians) and showed the reality as to how Muslims over-all wayyyyyyyyy ahead than indians and are living a way better life....

:wave:
 
What do Muslims feel today when confronted with an Islamophobe?

What do Muslims feel today about Islamophobia?

Any thoughts on how to react collectively or individually to it?

Who do you see as the main players as we move forward into this new century?

I never said that Muslims are ahead of Americans..I just said that provided with opportunity , they can perform even better....

Secondly , it was funny to see indians saying someone backward..I'm just showing you your face..sorry. lol...



Don't be a dumbass. When you compare China..you don't compare "China vs Non-Chinese world" etc....Even you don't compare "EU vs 'Non-EU' world....so grow up.

indians were blabbering about how Muslims are backward..it all started from there..and funny thing is..now no one has balls to come up and reply to my points...lol... How come Muslims are 'backward' when OIC sh!ts india in the face in EVERY parameter....

"OIC" is a functional body...so I CAN compare one entity (OIC) with the other big entity (india) ...

Plus : I'm not comparing this vs that...I just compared Muslim populations and non-Muslim populations residing in same environment/regions in substantial numbers.. (Like Africa , S.East Asia , Turkey/Asia minor region etc) ....

And regarding 'india' vs any muslim nation...LAWL.... how can you compare 1.2 billion people with say 80 million people? YOUR guys were calling Muslims (as a WHOLE) backward so I just compared 1.6 billion people (Muslims) with 1.2 billion people (indians) and showed the reality as to how Muslims over-all wayyyyyyyyy ahead than indians and are living a way better life....

:wave:

AUz can you please start another thread and leave mine alone?

I promise to come there and join in as well.

Honest request.
 
Hindus here on pdf are Islamophobe-

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/216173-party-girl-whos-embraced-new-life-muslim-convert.html

this thread closed recently is a big example- even indian seniors cant control themselves-
not only this one but countless of other threads aswell- find me a thread where some ones conversion to Islam has not made indians show their islamophobic nature--

I'm a Hindu as well as an Indian, however I've never hated Islam/Muslims. Live your life and stop worrying about others. It seems as if Muslims or any organized religion for that matter gloat when they hear about a conversion.
Look at the Jewish population for instance, they are only .22% worldwide however have contributed just as much as any other religion if not more.
 
What do Muslims feel today when confronted with an Islamophobe?

Depends what is the 'intensity' of his Islamophobia...Mostly , I guess , people will just ignore by saying "Yeah right , red neck" ..lol...

What do Muslims feel today about Islamophobia?

Muslims feel that it is ridiculous....

Any thoughts on how to react collectively or individually to it?

Yes. Muslims must become politically active (which they have in United States. You have NO idea how well-assimilated Muslim populations are in country's wider system) ... Muslims should also take more degrees in political science and law etc so that if anyone does any discrimination against them..Muslim law firms will just sue the fcuk outa them...and then no one will dare to discriminate against Muslims (This thing is also pretty much done. Muslim organizations in the United States are really active , Mashallah)... Plus , Muslims should engage with local population and clear the misconceptions about Islam and Muslims in general (This step is harder..specially in the 'South' of United States lol) ...

So in America , things are positive ...but in Europe...things are completely different.... American Muslim community is the role-model for Islamic communities throughout the Europe.....

Who do you see as the main players as we move forward into this new century?

Main player in what? Can you clarify please...
 
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