Where's the beef? Indians don't want to know

[Vibs]

[/B]

There are plenty of references to the caste system & its hereditary nature, only for the fleetest of time was it not considered hereditary. Sati too has references but very few & certainly none in the ancient texts.



Not true, plenty of references to Sati both in western & Southern India.

A lot of Western and Southern India followed a matrilineal form of inheritance. I'm not sure where you got this info. That is also the reason that there is no "Baraat" in the weddings. If you have contradicting info, please share (P.S. I should have excluded Gujarat and Rajasthan from Western India).

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Wander the streets surrounded by vegetarians, enjoy being adorned with garlands and treated with god-like reverence as you look forward to dying of old age.

The typical 'romantic' notion of western to conjure the 'mystical orient'.

Funny that the snake charmers, the Indian rope trick, the decked up elements and the shikars have been missed out!

As far as Indian cattle is concerned, most of the ones smuggled out are those put to pasture.

Maybe this is a good way to get rid of cattle that has passed its prime and are merely a burden since a large majority do not consume beef.

Maintaining a cow is not cheap!

 

[Sinnerman108]

What is life without some steak on the plate ?

Personally I think beef is the best source of energy and tastes wonderful !

As long as the animal is not too old ... always open for beef party :d

and oh btw,

I know for a fact, plenty of beef and lamb is sold from India to Pakistan on around Eid days.

 

[Black Widow]

Come on Dude I am from Kerala and 90 % of Hindus other than Brahmins and Few Nairs all consume BEEF.
Beef is sold openly is Kerala and Kerala is one of the states against Blanket Ban on Beef
Beef and Portata is common food available in all hotels across Kerala.

Ask your Kerela friends about Beef Ularthiyathu. Beef consumption in Kerela is over Kerala was 3,00,000 tonnes, the highest in the country. All the Christians and Muslim consumption in Kerela cannot justify that figures.
For the rest of the country,I'll leave you to your opinion.

I have never been to Kerla, So I can not answer you. But FYI Kerla is one of the state where 50% population is non Hindu. Out of 2 person standing in crowd one is non Hindu. The Beef consumption will be definately higher if every second person compulsory eat beef.

Any way its there personal choisce to eat beef or not. What can I say???

 

[kingkobra]

You're not gonna find a reference. It does not exist. Not even for Brahmins. Abstaining from meat, and other food items except staple and fruit was the norm only for meditating saints. Eventually was adopted as a necessary ritual.
If anyone has references from religious books to prove me wrong,I'm all ears.

1.Ya aamam maansamadanti paurusheyam cha ye kravih
Garbhaan khaadanti keshavaastaanito naashayaamasi
Atharvaveda 8.6.23

We ought to destroy those who eat cooked as well as uncooked meat, meat involving destruction of males and females, foetus and eggs.
--------------
2.Anago hatya vai bheema kritye
Maa no gaamashvam purusham vadheeh
Atharvaveda 10.1.29

It is definitely a great sin to kill innocents. Do not kill our cows, horses and people.
---------------------
3.Aghnyaa yajamaanasya pashoonpahi
Yajurveda 1.1
“O human! animals are Aghnya – not to be killed. Protect the animals”
----------------
4.Ghrtam duhaanaamaditim janaayaagne maa himsiheeh
Yajurveda 13.49
Do not kill cows and bulls who always deserve to be protected.
--------------
5.Sooyavasaad bhagavatee hi bhooyaa atho vayam bhagvantah syaama
Addhi trnamaghnye vishwadaaneem piba shuddhamudakamaacharantee
Rigveda 1.164.40 or Atharv 7.73.11 or Atharv 9.10.20
The Aghnya cows – which are not to be killed under any circumstances– may keep themselves healthy by use of pure water and green grass, so that we may be endowed with virtues, knowledge and wealth.
------------------------------

 

[nForce]

[/B]

There are plenty of references to the caste system & its hereditary nature, only for the fleetest of time was it not considered hereditary. Sati too has references but very few & certainly none in the ancient texts.



Not true, plenty of references to Sati both in western & Southern India.

I would like to have some references where it says that caste system is of hereditary nature.
I did a little reading at one point of time,and found out that the different castes were actually the names for different designations.
As for example,the Brahmins-people attached to studying,prayers etc... We call them scholars now.
The Kshatriyas-The warriors and the protectors of the law..We call them Police now.
The Vaishyas-The traders.. We sometimes call them Baniyas now.
The Shudras-The people entitled to make a community function properly by providing services.There goes your service sector...

So,its just a designation.Now there are certain group of people at all times in history of human civilization who will try to bend the faith to make it work for their own benefit,be it the Christian church of middle ages,the Hindu upper castes or the the Islamic mullahs...I think this is what has actually happened,and then became a part of tradition.

 

[Vibs]

1.Ya aamam maansamadanti paurusheyam cha ye kravih
Garbhaan khaadanti keshavaastaanito naashayaamasi
Atharvaveda 8.6.23

We ought to destroy those who eat cooked as well as uncooked meat, meat involving destruction of males and females, foetus and eggs.
--------------
2.Anago hatya vai bheema kritye
Maa no gaamashvam purusham vadheeh
Atharvaveda 10.1.29

It is definitely a great sin to kill innocents. Do not kill our cows, horses and people.
---------------------
3.Aghnyaa yajamaanasya pashoonpahi
Yajurveda 1.1
“O human! animals are Aghnya – not to be killed. Protect the animals”
----------------
4.Ghrtam duhaanaamaditim janaayaagne maa himsiheeh
Yajurveda 13.49
Do not kill cows and bulls who always deserve to be protected.
--------------
5.Sooyavasaad bhagavatee hi bhooyaa atho vayam bhagvantah syaama
Addhi trnamaghnye vishwadaaneem piba shuddhamudakamaacharantee
Rigveda 1.164.40 or Atharv 7.73.11 or Atharv 9.10.20
The Aghnya cows – which are not to be killed under any circumstances– may keep themselves healthy by use of pure water and green grass, so that we may be endowed with virtues, knowledge and wealth.
------------------------------

please refer post 134

 

[kingkobra]

I would like to have some references where it says that caste system is of hereditary nature.
I did a little reading at one point of time,and found out that the different castes were actually the names for different designations.
As for example,the Brahmins-people attached to studying,prayers etc... We call them scholars now.
The Kshatriyas-The warriors and the protectors of the law..We call them Police now.
The Vaishyas-The traders.. We sometimes call them Baniyas now.
The Shudras-The people entitled to make a community function properly by providing services.There goes your service sector...

So,its just a designation.Now there are certain group of people at all times in history of human civilization who will try to bend the faith to make it work for their own benefit,be it the Christian church of middle ages,the Hindu upper castes or the the Islamic mullahs...I think this is what has actually happened,and then became a part of tradition.

the word used in vedas is varna..which is derived from another word vrij...meaning of the word varna is choice..varnashram system was choice based but now unfortunately it has become birth based and taken shameful form of caste system.

word jati used today is great example of how ignorant we all have become

Jaati
Jaati means a classification based on source of origin. Nyaya Sutra states “Samaanaprasavaatmika Jaatih” or those having similar birth source form a Jaati.
An initial broad classification made by Rishis is 4-fold: Udbhija (coming out of ground like plants), Andaja (coming out of eggs like birds and reptiles), Pindaja (mammals) and Ushmaj (reproducing due to temperature and ambient conditions like virus, bacteria etc).

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

please refer post 134

No beef in Vedas

There is no caste-system in Vedas

 

[Manas]

99% percent upper caste Hindus thats brahmin, Kshatriya & Bania who are non-veg don't eat Beef as traditional food item. Thats means its very rare .

Lower caste people who aren't into agriculture and tribals do consume beef . But since they are too poor to buy beef they too eat beef rarely.

Some hindu who are experi-mentals ,don't mind eating beef outside home only.

I'll very surprised any hindu household cooking beef for dinner since hindu women folks are very particular about it. May be our on board liberals do cook beef at home, i don't know.

 

[Vibs]

the word used in vedas is varna..which is derived from another word vrij...meaning of the word varna is choice..varnashram system was choice based but now unfortunately it has become birth based and taken shameful form of caste system.

word jati used today is great example of how ignorant we all have become

Jaati
Jaati means a classification based on source of origin. Nyaya Sutra states “Samaanaprasavaatmika Jaatih” or those having similar birth source form a Jaati.
An initial broad classification made by Rishis is 4-fold: Udbhija (coming out of ground like plants), Andaja (coming out of eggs like birds and reptiles), Pindaja (mammals) and Ushmaj (reproducing due to temperature and ambient conditions like virus, bacteria etc).

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

No beef in Vedas

There is no caste-system in Vedas

With the risk of getting this thread into a religious discussion...Dude..you are quoting guys according to whom the Vedas say If someone destroys our cows, horses or people, kill him with a bullet of lead. The vedas do mention eating habits as per occupation.Not as a universal rule. Does anyone have the entire verse quoted in that post?I'd love an entire actual translation.

 

[kingkobra]

With the risk of getting this thread into a religious discussion...Dude..you are quoting guys according to whom the Vedas say If someone destroys our cows, horses or people, kill him with a bullet of lead. The vedas do mention eating habits as per occupation.Not as a universal rule. Does anyone have the entire verse quoted in that post?I'd love an entire actual translation.

religious books say somethings like this so that people stay away from such things.
It is the entire actual verse and it is not translated by any idiot like max muller.

 

[Bang Galore]

A lot of Western and Southern India followed a matrilineal form of inheritance. I'm not sure where you got this info. That is also the reason that there is no "Baraat" in the weddings. If you have contradicting info, please share (P.S. I should have excluded Gujarat and Rajasthan from Western India).

Sati was an ancient tradition, prevalent in vedic times since the epics mention it & Greek writers of the 4th century BCE also mention it. By the 5th century AD, it was fairy common practice among kshatriyas. Only much later did other castes also indulge in the practice.In South India, it was rare till about 1000 A.D. & while never common place, there were more than a few cases. The first evidence of Sati in S.India was from the 10th century, committed by a queen of Sundara Chola. It was later widely practiced by the Vijayanagara dynasty with numerous wives & concubines of Vijayanagar Kings committing Sati. It spread further South in Karnataka & to Tamil Nadu under the influences of Vijayanagar governors. There have been many Sati memorial stones found in Karnataka (Nayaka & Gauda castes but also including Jains).From S.India, the practice spread to Java,Sumatra & Bali with Indian migrants. The practice of Sati itself had minor regional variations. In Gujarat & Uttar Pradesh, Sati was performed in a specially built wooden hut while in the Deccan,Rajasthan & Western India, the Sati pyre was built in a deep pit.(The First Spring - Abraham Eraly)

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What is life without some steak on the plate ?

Personally I think beef is the best source of energy and tastes wonderful !

As long as the animal is not too old ... always open for beef party :d

and oh btw,

I know for a fact, plenty of beef and lamb is sold from India to Pakistan on around Eid days.

Actually any animal which is bred for food, be it pigs, cow, sheep, goat, chicken, geese, duck, turkey, and even dog and its health cared for, should be fine to be eaten by those who relish it. Yes, even dogs, since in many countries dogs are a delicacy!!

However, any animal or bird that is not bred for food is prone to disease and can be a carrier of disease, like bird flu.

Even vegetables require to be nourished and nurtured and not be overdosed with chemicals, for then they become dangerous for human consumption.

 

[Vibs]

religious books say somethings like this so that people stay away from such things.
It is the entire actual verse and it is not translated by any idiot like max muller.

So they knew what a bullet was..and that it could be made out of lead.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

since the issue of Sati is being discussed, I have a question for clarification,

I am not too sure, but was Sati similar in concept to Muslims marrying four times (I believe it was to ensure that the widows of many wars were not left to be preyed upon) and thereby ensuring the morality of the clan was unblemished?

On the issue of Bangladeshis eating smuggled cows from India, apart from the aspect of smuggling, I have no beef if they eat the cows from India.

The only thing I would caution them about is that there are cows put to pasture and the sharp cookies who smuggle are making a quick buck at the expense of the Bangladeshis since cows not bred for food are prone to disease.