Where would the country be today if musharraf had told the usa "no"

[Raja420]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

 

[jamahir]

I don't have to spoon-feed you.

Go Google the Islamic scholars in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt who said the Soviet-Afghanistan war was a legitimate jihad against the atheistic Soviet Union.

Islamic scholars from Saudia ?

And from Pakistan were they the students of that crook Maududi and teachers of the other misogynist irrational Tariq Jameel who last year declared that the COVID pandemic visited humans because of female immorality ? What next, he declares solar flares on the Sun happening because the females of Afghanistan kicked and burnt the burqa ? And "Islamic" scholars from Egypt, were these from the "Muslim" Brotherhood who found freedom to spread their anti-human anti-Islam filth after the death of Jamal Abdul Nasser ?

 

[MultaniGuy]

Islamic scholars from Saudia ?

And from Pakistan were they the students of that crook Maududi and teachers of the other misogynist irrational Tariq Jameel who last year declared that the COVID pandemic visited humans because of female immorality ? What next, he declares solar flares on the Sun happening because the females of Afghanistan kicked and burnt the burqa ? And "Islamic" scholars from Egypt, were these from the "Muslim" Brotherhood who found freedom to spread their anti-human anti-Islam filth after the death of Jamal Abdul Nasser ?

You fool, the West and the Muslim countries were allied against the Soviet Union. lol

Stop cherry-picking isolated incidents of individual Muslim leaders visiting Soviet Union.

 

[Malik Alpha]

I don't have to spoon-feed you.

Go Google the Islamic scholars in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt who said the Soviet-Afghanistan war was a legitimate jihad against the atheistic Soviet Union.

You can laugh all you want @jamahir.

You certainly are a moron, When the Soviet Union was officially atheistic.

You are addressing a known harami who have nothing to do with Islam and rejoice killing of Muslims. We all know what these red clowns did to Afghans and Chechens. Jihad is must when facing a cruel enemy whether it is Russia or America. May Allah accept the martyrdom of those brave Mujahideens who stood against these tyrants.

 

[MultaniGuy]

You are addressing a known harami who have nothing to do with Islam and rejoice killing of Muslims. We all know what these red clowns did to Afghans and Chechens. Jihad is must when facing a cruel enemy whether it is Russia or America. May Allah accept the martyrdom of those brave Mujahideens who stood against these tyrants.

Dr. Israr Ahmed was one Islamic scholar who certainly was against the Soviets.

 

[jamahir]

You fool, the West and the Muslim countries were allied against the Soviet Union. lol

Really ? So Algeria, South Yemen, Libyan Jamahiriya, Syria and Iraq were in with NATO and Zia on this fake jihad aka regime change terrorism ?

Stop cherry-picking isolated incidents of individual Muslim leaders visiting Soviet Union.

These were real Muslim leaders, unlike your NATO-appointed mullahs ( "Mard-e-Momin" and co. ).

You are addressing a known harami who have nothing to do with Islam and rejoice killing of Muslims. We all know what these red clowns did to Afghans and Chechens. Jihad is must when facing a cruel enemy whether it is Russia or America. May Allah accept the martyrdom of those brave Mujahideens who stood against these tyrants.

Cruel enemy America ? Chuo karp mian. You sitting in a country created by the British and protected by America and that country participating in America's Libya operation enthusiastically and you saying "Cruel enemy America" ?

Those "red clowns" sent this Afghan to space :

And your "Mard-e-Momin" sent Afghans to destruction.

Dr. Israr Ahmed was one Islamic scholar who certainly was against the Soviets.

He would be, he was a burqa lover after all. There are many irrationals like him in India too with the grand title "Doctor".

 

[fatman17]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

Stone age perhaps

 

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

@jamahir. Aur bhaiya kaisa lag raha ?
Communist muslim

 

[PakFactor]

Stone age perhaps

With the way things are going now in Pakistan we ourselves accomplished that without a war.

 

[Sharma Ji]

@jamahir. Aur bhaiya kaisa lag raha ?
Communist muslim

dhobi ka something something .. na ghar ka na ghaat ka

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir. Aur bhaiya kaisa lag raha ?
Communist muslim

dhobi ka something something .. na ghar ka na ghaat ka

You uneducated anti-Communist Hindutvadi idiots live in India today and see Owaisi and Burqa bibi Muskan and you think they are Muslims ? How many times have I not posted that Muslims have been been modern Communists since the early 1900s, much before stupid Owaisi's father was born and before misinformed and misguided Muskan's grandfather was born. In Owasi's AIMIM HQ Hyderabad used to live the Communist poet and revolutionary Makhdoom Mohiuddin. Yes, a Communist Muslim. Now we have Owaisi and co. You know nothing of the world. I quote a section from my thread from 2016 whose long OP in an article by Pakistani journalist and has short descriptions of various Muslim Communist and Socialist individuals, leaders and entire countries :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

You should read the whole OP and then the initial discussions there. What do you think the Muslim-majority South Yemen was ? A Communist society. There are Muslim Communists in India ( the veteran major Kashmiri leader MY Tarigami for example ), In Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Palestine, Central Asia, Russia and probably also in Salvador in South America, and Muslim Socialists in many places in West Asia and Africa. Communism and Socialism are automatic to Islam as you can see above in one explanation and Sharma I have made multiple explanations to you so why do you come up with stupid troll statements again and again ? I have already recommended you for permaban, is it not ? Don't keep this up otherwise you will be. The forum management has generally been kind to me by allowing me my simple and long explanations of various things among humanity but I am never trollish, crass, snarky, drawling like you.

You two see insults to me by two stupids who are Muslims only by accident of birth and local community but have never understood the progressive, rational, justice-seeking and harmony-seeking philosophies and laws of Islam and you hold them up as the ideals who have the authority to tell me off ? Me ?

 

[Sharma Ji]

You uneducated anti-Communist Hindutvadi idiots live in India today and see Owaisi and Burqa bibi Muskan and you think they are Muslims ? How many times have I not posted that Muslims have been been modern Communists since the early 1900s, much before stupid Owaisi's father was born and before misinformed and misguided Muskan's grandfather was born. In Owasi's AIMIM HQ Hyderabad used to live the Communist poet and revolutionary Makhdoom Mohiuddin. Yes, a Communist Muslim. Now we have Owaisi and co. You know nothing of the world. I quote a section from my thread from 2016 whose long OP in an article by Pakistani journalist and has short descriptions of various Muslim Communist and Socialist individuals, leaders and entire countries :

I happen to be educated quite well, went to the best schools etc..

I see Owaisi and Muskan as troublemakers when there is no need to make said trouble, I'm also friends with muslims, family has had deep ties with many for decades, dating back to pre partition ties in both UP and Hyderabad.. mujhe mat sikha

JNU specifically, mein bhi I've known many kids from back in the day and continue to know some today.. I know the commie mindset quite well.. bunch of idealist kids, most grow out of it when they setp out of campus and when the their rubber meets the road, the hard road of life.. pehle speedbreaker pe hi khallas ho jatey, the few who make it past pehle traffic chakka-jaam me martey

facts remain, that communism has been wiped out from earth by the people because it does not serve the people ? Need I post pictures of baathist dictators and the luxury they lived in while their subjects did very poorly and in stark contrast to their opulent lifestyles ?

I've seen and known more of the world that you can ever hope to see or know.. not with your bhikari attitude anyway.

You should read the whole OP and then the initial discussions there. What do you think the Muslim-majority South Yemen was ? A Communist society. There are Muslim Communists in India ( the major Kashmiri leader MY Tarigami for example ), In Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Palestine, Central Asia, Russia and probably also in Salvador in South America, and Muslim Socialists in many places in West Asia and Africa. Communism and Socialism are automatic to Islam as you can see above in one explanation and Sharma I have made multiple explanations to you so why do you come up with stupid troll statements again and again ? I have already recommended you for permaban, is it not ? Don't keep this up otherwise you will be. The forum management has generally been kind to me by allowing me my simple and long explanations of various things among humanity but I am never trollish, crass, snarky, drawling like you.

Ha.. last refuge of a true rascal.. "ki tu nikal ja, mujhe challenge mat kar, maar doonga, jail me daal doonga, tujhse bolnai ki ijaazat cheen lenge..." haha LOL

if you give me a dolly or a half volley, be ready to fetch it from the fence

I would further argue and cement my point that YOU, not-so-good sir, are the "crass and snarky one.." here

You too see insults to me by two stupids who are Muslims only by accident of birth and local community but have never understood the progressive, rational, justice-seeking and harmony-seeking philosophies and laws of Islam and you hold them up as the ideals who have the authority to tell me off ? Me ?

I would laud and applaud insults to your rubbish points by any denomination of human, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or Jewish.

and yes indeed, I will tell you to GTFO here all day and night

here, listen to some good music now:

 

[Hamza913]

They would have opted for a protracted campaign of precision strikes against targets deemed to be of significance throughout Afghanistan as well as Pakistan that would likely be continuing to this very day. The antagonization against the latter would have reached monstrous proportions, being hit with a slew of sanctions and the military infrastructure itself also being the subject of attacks. Any American military equipment in Pakistan's possession would suffer significantly without proper spares, and I bet you they would have backed India as well as Baloch separatists significantly more just to spite us too (but I still don't think Balochistan would attain independence), as well as plenty more coups (how successful they'd be is another matter).

It's worth mentioning that if this is a Pakistan with the balls to say no to NATO, it could have also fired its missiles at American bases within the Gulf once being subject to airstrikes as well. Not that I think this would go terribly well, NATO would still continue to hammer the country.

Given all of the above, India would have also seen things as prime time to invade Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan, but I don't think they'd succeed in acquiring them wholesale. Their positions would just advance relatively considerably.

TL;DR things wouldn't be too swell, we'd basically be like Iran but worse

Whether or not this is more terrible than our actual timeline, I'll let you be the judge

 

[jamahir]

I happen to be educated quite well, went to the best schools etc..

What does education have to do with school and college degrees ? I am a 12th class dropout and our dear Hindutvadi @Surya 1 must have 40 degrees, with him writing 32 exams in just one year as he himself proudly wrote ! Who is rational and educated and worldly-wise among us two ? But who am I a lowly 12th class dropout to sit among the top PhD "scientists" among the 500 million Hindutvadis ? Take former DRDO chief, Dr. VK Saraswat and his colleagues at VIBHA :

VIBHA's advisory board includes Vijay Kumar Saraswat, former head of Indian defense research and now chancellor of Jawaharlal Nehru University here. The former chairs of India's Space Commission and its Atomic Energy Commission are VIBHA "patrons." Structural biologist Shekhar Mande, director-general of CSIR, is VIBHA's vice president.

Saraswat—who says he firmly believes in the power of gemstones to influence wellbeing and destiny—is proud of the achievements of ancient Hindu science: "We should rediscover Indian systems which existed thousands of years back," he says. Mande shares that pride. "We are a race which is not inferior to any other race in the world," he says. "Great things have happened in this part of the world." Mande insists that VIBHA is not antiscientific, however: "We want to tell people you have to be rational in your life and not believe in irrational myths." He does not see a rise of pseudoscience in the past 4 years—"We have always had that"—and says part of the problem is that the press is now paying more attention to the occasional bizarre claim. "If journalists don't report it, actually that would be perfect," he says.

And what is VIBHA ?

New Delhi—The most widely discussed talk at the Indian Science Congress, a government-funded annual jamboree held in Jalandhar in January, wasn't about space exploration or information technology, areas in which India has made rapid progress. Instead, the talk celebrated a story in the Hindu epic Mahabharata about a woman who gave birth to 100 children, citing it as evidence that India's ancient Hindu civilization had developed advanced reproductive technologies. Just as surprising as the claim was the distinguished pedigree of the scientist who made it: chemist G. Nageshwar Rao, vice-chancellor of Andhra University in Visakhapatnam. "Stem cell research was done in this country thousands of years ago," Rao said.

His talk was widely met with ridicule. But Rao is hardly the only Indian scientist to make such claims. In recent years, "experts" have said ancient Indians had spacecraft, the internet, and nuclear weapons—long before Western science came on the scene.

Such claims and other forms of pseudoscience rooted in Hindu nationalism have been on the rise since Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in 2014. They're not just an embarrassment, some researchers say, but a threat to science and education that stifles critical thinking and could hamper India's development. "Modi has initiated what may be called ‘Project Assault on Scientific Rationality,'" says Gauhar Raza, former chief scientist at the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) here, a conglomerate of almost 40 national labs. "A religio-mythical culture is being propagated in the country's scientific institutions aggressively."

Some blame the rapid rise at least in part on Vijnana Bharati (VIBHA), the science wing of Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS), a massive conservative movement that aims to turn India into a Hindu nation and is the ideological parent of Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party. VIBHA aims to educate the masses about science and technology and harness research to stimulate India's development, but it also promotes "Swadeshi" (indigenous) science and tries to connect modern science to traditional knowledge and Hindu spirituality.

VIBHA receives generous government funding and is active in 23 of India's 29 states, organizing huge science fairs and other events; it has 20,000 so-called "team members" to spread its ideas and 100,000 volunteers—including many in the highest echelons of Indian science.

If anybody wants to have even more fun they can read this "research" document prepared by Professor Shivanandam M, head of Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi Viswa Mahavidyalaya, Kanchipuram, Tamil Nadu. I quote its abstract :

Ancient Indian culture 7000 years ago knows how to create Vimanas to traverse the sky and beyond using a technology that NASA is still trying to harness today. There are many books and websites which forcefully and passionately assert that technologically advanced aircraft and spacecraft were in common use over the Indian subcontinent thousands of years ago. The sources also claim that advanced space propulsion technology being researched by NASA is in fact directly inspired by ancient flying machines. The references mentioned from Vedic texts such as Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Srimad Bhagavatham, Ramayana, Mahabharatha, Vaimanika Shastra and Samarangana Suthtradhara cites Vimanas that fly in air, water and land. They mention various propulsion including Mercury propulsion. Vaimanika Shastra provides complete manual for Design, Material selection, Manufacture, Operation, Space suits, Food, Tackling enemies, Becoming invisible etc. S.B.Talpade, Sanskrit scholar has designed and constructed an aircraft based on Vedic principles and demonstrated the first unmanned flight.

NASA, SpaceX, Relativity Space, Rocket Lab, i-Space and of course Russia must submit themselves to the superiority of the professor's research. But I wonder why is 60-year-old ISRO which is yet to launch a human into space, not using ancient Vedic vimana technology but relying on Western-design rocket engines and traditional rocket shapes in general.

Not blaming just Hindu "geniuses" here. During the rule of "Mard-e-Momin" Zia ul Haq he assigned some "highly educated" scientists to research on how to harness jinn power to generate electricity.

facts remain, that communism has been wiped out from earth by the people because it does not serve the people ?

Right, I am communicating on PDF from Red Mars.

And the DPRK has not certainly existed for 74 years and the Libyan Jamahiriya did not exist in recent history until 2011.

Need I post pictures of baathist dictators and the luxury they lived in while their subjects did very poorly and in stark contrast to their opulent lifestyles ?

Yes, please post the endless slums of Libyan Jamahiriya.

I've seen and known more of the world that you can ever hope to see or know.. not with your bhikari attitude anyway.

1. Picking up vacuous and graceless females from nightclubs in Perm and meeting MBA fellows in London pubs is not called seeing the world.

2. If just traveling to other countries were to be a measure of intelligence then millions of South Asians are the most brilliant of all including those "famed" code monkeys of Bangalore, Andhra, Pune and Noida.

No thanks. I don't want to listen to some motorcycle or car junkie "music". That's what the band name sounds.

 

[Black Vigo]

I am a 12th class dropout

That's no surprise we already know you're an incompetent piece of shit who is worth nothing in society only further emphasized by the fact that you're a murtad atheist commie

Bitch couldn't do shit in life and now wants everyone to suffer under communism lol what a piece of shit

 

[jamahir]

That's no surprise we already know you're an incompetent piece of shit who is worth nothing in society only further emphasized by the fact that you're a murtad atheist commie

Bitch couldn't do shit in life and now wants everyone to suffer under communism lol what a piece of shit

Beta jaan, this "incompetent" co-founded a small company some years ago which was for a major project in computing and will have another company soon pending finance, again in some major projects in computing. And this company will have political implications. Don't worry about me, I can do lot of things. You worry about yourself that all you can do in life is scream "you gay" "you fag" "you atheist".