Where would the country be today if musharraf had told the usa "no"

[Raja420]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Iol the way these liberal cleanshave use their intellect , ITs not like pakistan is economic powerhouse and respected Internationally even after these dollar loving ruling elites takes everything from behind which their white lords sends their way. Weakness cant be used as An argument for logic.

I too am against the clean shaven liberal hypocrites.

As if the West saw a Muslim country in a favorable light anyways.
The only countries that have truly helped Pakistan are Saudi Arabia and China.

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

So be economically sanctioned like Iran? lol.

I want Pakistan to be economically like China or Taiwan.

 

[LeGenD]

@Raja420

Let me give you some perspective.

Why should Pakistan choose to defend Afghanistan if its own fate is on the line?

Which country would choose to defend Al-Qaeda Network in particular? A terrorist organization which set the stage of a terrible war between US/NATO and Muslims in which millions of poor Muslims have lost their lives and 4 countries have bitten dust.

Pakistan itself paid a hefty price in the process but averted a much worse fate.

Pervez Musharraf saved Pakistan. He wasn't lacking in teeth. He taught India a lesson in Kargil for taking Siachin in the 1980s. This was very bold move on his part in view of Pakistan's economic situation of the time.

WE should be thankful to Musharraf. He knew what he was doing.

War in Afghanistan had its cascading effects which affected Pakistan. But this was a much lower cost to bear in the long run.

You think loosing 80,000 is bad? Imagine loosing millions and entire cities reduced to rubble.

Strategic depth.

 

[Beny Karachun]

BTW I'm 31. It pi


No we wouldn't. was Vietnam eradicated? and if America took extreme measures two countries would've been eradicated along with Pakistan, Israel and India. America wouldn't dare to attack Pakistan knowing their daddy Israel was gonna get destroyed in the process.
Our people would've fought bravely and let's say if we were going to get eradicated atleast we would've died like men.

You'd get destroyed before you know it. US and Israel have cyber capabilities beyond your wildest imagination

 

[MultaniGuy]

You'd get destroyed before you know it. US and Israel have cyber capabilities beyond your wildest imagination

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Pakistan can decimate Israel.

Its just that USA rushes to protect Israel.

 

[Lincoln]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

Nuclear Pakistan's nukes couldn't reach the United States, we couldn't pose a threat to them.

Musharraf clearly stated that America gave them an option, that you're either with us or against us.

Had we said no, I don't know how viable the Central Asian route would've been but it was a difficult decision to say no to a state which, with international support, was looking to invade a nation and deploy a significant force.

 

[jamahir]

Haan waye Hindua hun gal kar.

Hindua ? Nice way to respect your Hindu minority. You seem 10 years old and not 31.

Biggest nutjob here is you. Pretend to be a Muslim infront of Muslims and then change your religion to hindutva infront of your Hindu masters.

Does your reply match my post ?

I know about the raid on Lal Masjid you asked me to attack the Lal Masjid and I told you why would I attack the Masjid. Don't put your dirty Hindu words in my mouth.

And why shouldn't you attack Lal Masjid since you intention is to anyway die ?

As for the ttp I didn't know them by name but I know there are terrorist groups who have enmity with our army. This is all of musharrafs doing imho. If he didn't side with the crusaders on wot none of this happens. Our own people wouldn't have gone against the army. Musharraf created this mess which will take decades maybe centuries for things to cool down between the two parties. It's a tactic used since mankind was created divide and conquer. America succeeded in creating enemies for Pakistan within our borders. I don't agree with the terrorists ways but the situation could've been avoided.

1. Are you blaming Musharraf for setting the stage to counter regressive and oppressive criminals ? That implies you support TTP.

2. Groups like TTP, Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood are the creations or encouragements of the Crusaders.

3. You are talking about centuries for things to settle in Pakistan. You don't realize that in less than eight years a few humans will land on Mars and by the mid-2030s there will be a research station on Mars and then will be mining in the Asteroid Belt which all will bring great social influence on Earth.

For example if muslims attack Canada and the USA sides with the muslims the Christians of America would revolt against their army and side with their Christian brothers. Pakistan is my country I know what goes on in my land I don't need to explain to a hindu like you whether I'm Pakistani or not.

Illogical example.

Then our country would never develop.
Our country would be the craphole like North Korea. A pariah state.

I think Pervez Musharraf was being smart. I mean is it smart to stand up to a superpower like that?

If Pakistan had the same sanctions imposed on it for decades as were put on North Korea, Pakistan would have been like Afghanistan or even worse. North Korea is a society worth emulating for Pakistan or for India.

You are a hypocrite.

All the Muslim majority countries and Islamic scholars agreed fighting the atheistic communists in Afghanistan.
It was a legitimate Jihad against the Soviets.

Even Arabs from Egypt went to join the mujaheddin.

You still haven't given me the list of those "Islamic" scholars.

Ummm...No.

The Soviets had supported India. The USSR was an enemy of Pakistan the same way India is.

Wrong. Read post# 2.

 

[Raja420]

Hindua ? Nice way to respect your Hindu minority. You seem 10 years old and not 31.



Does your reply match my post ?



And why shouldn't you attack Lal Masjid since you intention is to anyway die ?



1. Are you blaming Musharraf for setting the stage to counter regressive and oppressive criminals ? That implies you support TTP.

2. Groups like TTP, Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood are the creations or encouragements of the Crusaders.

3. You are talking about centuries for things to settle in Pakistan. You don't realize that in less than eight years a few humans will land on Mars and by the mid-2030s there will be a research station on Mars and then will be mining in the Asteroid Belt which all will bring great social influence on Earth.



Illogical example.



If Pakistan had the same sanctions imposed on it for decades as were put on North Korea, Pakistan would have been like Afghanistan or even worse. North Korea is a society worth emulating for Pakistan or for India.



You still haven't given me the list of those "Islamic" scholars.



Wrong. Read post# 2.

 

[Raja420]

Yes.

It was fourth largest and one of the best equipped force in the world at the time.

It was larger and better equipped than Vietcong at the time as well.

The difference was their ruler was a tyrant and the army had many differences regarding religion in their ranks. Pakistanis would've been on the same page and would've repelled the American forces.

There was no way for America to invade Pakistan like they did with Iraq.

 

[Raja420]

Look how hard our ancestors worked to get as far as we did till now in year 2022.

Look at Iraq, a country that has been utterly destroyed.

You can choose what you want. Do what Musharraf did, or choose to be utterly smashed like Iraq was.

You worry too much about materialistic things. We believe in the Hereafter as well. Musharraf may not have to answer the Pakistani people or the Afghani people but he will be questioned from Allah. And what would his reply be? America was a superpower that's why we let them kill our Muslim brothers and sisters? that's why we let them torture many Muslims When it strictly says in the Quran do not torture the believers.

Atleast by fighting we would've held our heads high infront of Allah and he would've given us a victory in this world too.

 

[araz]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?
I wish musharraf had told no to America's war on terror.
So many innocent lives were gone and we were on the wrong side of history. If we had fought atleast we would've held our integrity in the Muslim world.

If general zia ul haq was in power I believe he would've went to war against America. I wish I lived in his time he was a True mujahideen.

Irrelevant as it is a past event. You are examining it with a retrospectoscope. You have no information of the pressures Musharraf faced. Generally there was wide spread support for MINIMAL COOPERATION with the US. HOWEVER, deep involvement with the US providing bases, air corridor , handing over Taliban leaders was a bad move. I think overall Pakistan would have been worse off if we had refused point blank to support the US. However a better settlement could have been negotiated.
A

 

[Raja420]

@Raja420

Let me give you some perspective.

Why should Pakistan choose to defend Afghanistan if its own fate is on the line?

Which country would choose to defend Al-Qaeda Network in particular? A terrorist organization which set the stage of a terrible war between US/NATO and Muslims in which millions of poor Muslims have lost their lives and 4 countries have bitten dust.

Pakistan itself paid a hefty price in the process but averted a much worse fate.

Pervez Musharraf saved Pakistan. He wasn't lacking in teeth. He taught India a lesson in Kargil for taking Siachin in the 1980s. This was very bold move on his part in view of Pakistan's economic situation of the time.

WE should be thankful to Musharraf. He knew what he was doing.

War in Afghanistan had its cascading effects which affected Pakistan. But this was a much lower cost to bear in the long run.

You think loosing 80,000 is bad? Imagine loosing millions and entire cities reduced to rubble.

Strategic depth.

I agree with what you're saying about looking at the bigger picture but it boils my blood that the USA was able to arm twist our nation into their war.

When the mongols messenger went to the mamluks to ask them to surrender their city the mamluks chopped of their heads in reply even though the mongols were a super power at that time. In the end it was the mamluks who defeated the mongols and it is Allah who gives victories.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

I agree with what you're saying about looking at the bigger picture but it boils my blood that the USA was able to arm twist our nation into their war.

When the mongols messenger went to the mamluks to ask them to surrender their city the mamluks chopped of their heads in reply even though the mongols were a super power at that time. In the end it was the mamluks who defeated the mongols and it is Allah who gives victories.

US is a bully and a bully is a coward, this is proven looking at the US history of defeats in Vietnam, Venezuela, Cuba, Aghanistan recently and Iran.

US did a regime change in Iran throwing Mussadiq govt. and brought in a US puppet of Shah Iran, the result was a Islamic revolution under Khomenei and many times more adverse Islamic government in Iran vehemently against America.

Here in Pakistan too almost all the 220 million people are now against the US, except for some paid so called liberal journalists and NGO's and of course the current PDM government. So its foolish of US to do the regime change and let all the Pak nation goes against the US.

This happened in Aghanistan as well...US never learns.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Had musharraf decided to fight against America and told them to fuvk off would the Americans wage war against a nuclear Pakistan? Or would they just sit back and put sanctions on Pakistan?

Musharraf was a liberal pro western who came up with flawed enlightened moderation regarding fundamentals of Islam.

He couldn't say No to US, if there was a strong civilian governmnt in Pakistan liek of ex PM IK, he must have said NO to US.

The COAS in Pakistan is appointed with tacit approval of US, so they are under US coercian, the top ranked Army Brass. Raheel Sharif looked to be an exception...

The fallacy of a weaker civilian govt. The US shouldn't be talking directly to the Pak Army, the Army is subordinate to the govt, and it is in their own benefit not to act alone.

Chapter 2: "Armed Forces." of Part XII: "Miscellaneous"

www.pakistani.org

We all need to read Pakistan constitution in detail.

 

[Raja420]

Musharraf was a liberal pro western who came up with flawed enlightened moderation regarding fundamentals of Islam.

He couldn't say No to US, if there was a strong civilian governmnt in Pakistan liek of ex PM IK, he must have said NO to US.

The COAS in Pakistan is appointed with tacit approval of US, so they are under US coercian, the top ranked Army Brass. Raheel Sharif looked to be an exception...

The fallacy of a weaker civilian govt. The US shouldn't be talking directly to the Pak Army, the Army is subordinate to the govt, and it is in their own benefit not to act alone.

Chapter 2: "Armed Forces." of Part XII: "Miscellaneous"

www.pakistani.org

We all need to read Pakistan constitution in detail.

I love Raheel sharif not only because he is a Rajput but he had so many other qualities. I would vote for him in a heartbeat if he ever decides to run for a PM.

I don't ever like to question our army and establishment with their decisions but being on this board has made me realize that perhaps the army does hold too much power and the civilians must be the ones to decide their fate.

As for raheel sharif... nasal phir nasal hi hoti hai.

 

[jamahir]

Musharraf was a liberal pro western who came up with flawed enlightened moderation regarding fundamentals of Islam.

I agree, he shouldn't have gone liberal but Left, the Faiz Ahmed Faiz 1951 way.