Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[Myth_buster_1]

Well, like I said, I've read the Quran, but as per my understanding perhaps if the Prophet were alive today he would have done to 99% of the mosques in Pakistan what he did to the Masjid-e-Zarrar. Most of them are associated with sects and hence encouraging firqawariat, others are outright dens of fitna parasti, yet others are allowing people (i.e. the qaabiz mullahs) to transform religion into a source of income and still others are instruments of an illegitimate qabza on government property.

May Allah save us all from such mosques!

Net-net, religion is personal. It cannot be forced down the throat of a collective of 180 million people. If ever a majority of Pakistanis can agree on a particular version of the Sharia and choose to vote that in as the constitution of Pakistan, well and good. Until then, the energy wasted in these lamentations is better used cleaning up your street, volunteering at a local school, helping fund a scholarship for a low-income child or simply trying to excel at whatever you do for the sake of the country.

agree with most of your post but expect the bold part.

Can you provide any prove from Qur'an Sunnah Hadith that Islam is only personal practice?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I always wonder how much Pakistan is at the ransom of Islamic bigots.
Incurring sample from this thread, i can say the situation is not that bad but heaps needs to be done.

I hope you can read English. The starter post clearly says "Indians please dont post"

THank you.

 

[TechLahore]

Quaid e Azam.. Oh my.
Seriously, Pakistanis need to bring Prophet Mohammed in their heart more then a person who was not send by God.
Why was Pakistan created then if it was not for the muslims. I am sure hardly any non muslim supported Jinnah for separation from India. Without muslims+islam no one would have thought of Pakistan.

I shared with you my interpretation of the Prophet's will. I think he would have had 99% of the mosques in Pakistan bulldozed. Prophet Moses would have done to the mullahs what he did to Samirri. And Jesus would have led a revolt against these rotten mullahs the same way he attacked the corrupt Rabbis.

Pakistan was created as a land in which the freedom to live under ones religious and ideological beliefs would be afforded to all. It was not created as a Sharia state. You have to remember the context of partition; after the British exit, a mandatory sanskritized education, the imposition of a right-wing hindu ideology etc. were all very real prospects. Pakistan was conceived as a state where people could go to avoid intolerance.

Pakistan ka matlab kya... this was not the Quaid's naara, nor was it a naara of the Azaadi movement.

PS: If Islam did not allow us to give hidayat to fellow muslims then i would be least bothered about this topic.

I don't want to ask you what your credentials are and what qualifies you to give hidayat to the rest of us. I don't want to compare how much you might have read and how much I might have read, or how much Aashiq or Agnostic Muslim might have read. I will say that usually people who think they are the cat's whiskers and can provide "hidayat" to others are empty vessels themselves. Unless you are the Lord God, hidayat di nahien jaati, hidayat lainay log aap kay paas atay hein.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Aeon View Post
I am content enough about my faith. But I will not use it to influence others. Or to tell them they will go to hell if they abandon such and such.

assalam alaikum

Brother i see u got a big problem if u r a muslim Prophet (PBUH) knew about his faith he influence the ppl and after his death his companions did that if they didnot do it our ancestor would be worshipping idols or fire. If u believe that we muslims r on the right path then u need to influence them in a good manner so they can love islam and appreciate what is offer, the biggest islamic country indonesia , nobody invaded it it was yemeni traders and their honest dealing that attracted those ppl to islam.

Growler , masha Allha , Allah hum sub ko hidayat dain or app ko sabit qadam rakkhain aameeen

TARIQ

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Pakistan is not the 'personal property' of anyone then,

Looks like you have answered yourself.

given that the man instrumental in the creation of Pakistan supported democracy and a system of government NOT based on religion.

Why should we go by his laws over the laws that was premitted by Allah? Is he more important or Allah?

least of all Mullahs and Islamists,

Thats being ignorant. Please dont associate Islam with illiterate mullahs or anyone else.

And, again, please show me the details of an 'Islamic Government' as outlined in the Quran - since governance of a Muslim society is such a basic and essential subject, there is no way Allah would have left out details of the kind of governing system He preferred from HIS Word.

The topic is quite vast and requires a research. Yes I will be more then welcome to do that tomorrow.

 

[TechLahore]

agree with most of your post but expect the bold part.

Can you provide any prove from Qur'an Sunnah Hadith that Islam is only personal practice?

I already did. But perhaps you didn't pay attention.

The Quran says, "La ikraha fiddin". In the matter of religion, there is no compulsion. How can this be true while still giving the state license to enforce religion? If I don't want to say my prayers, is there a license under the Quran to allow the muttawa to forcibly send me to the mosque? If I don't want to keep a beard, are the Taliban's "amar bil maroof..." ghundas allowed to beat me into keeping one? If a female does not want to cover her head, can the Iranian religious police fine her or forcibly send her back home?

The answer to all the above in light of the Quran, is NO.

Islam provides guidelines on how to run a state. Yes, that is true. But it is not a system that seeks to impose itself on a people without their will. In this sense, it is no different to any democratic system. You can make any law in a democracy as long as the people will it.

 

[Aeon]

Aeon

assalam alaikum

If i remember turky till 90's was and under secularist parties was not doing good it is the islamist party of ordogan that made the change.

Brother who told u that we cant have good relations with non muslims and non muslim countries if we r practicing muslims or a country. The problem is within us that we didnot understand islam and its duties and our responsibilities

Regards

TARIQ

I will leave reputed Turk members to respond to this. But rest assured, the 'Islamism' of Turkey, resting upon its still secular government institutions, esp military, is a world apart from that of Pakistan.

With regard to the bolded part, does sectarianism ring a bell...?

 

[Aeon]

Everyone is accountable to their actions and sure allah does not like those who abandon Islam and hell is what awaits them in afterlife.

Read Koran again with translation because you will find your answer.
And again i am least bothered about others what they may think if i am to practice islam.

If you have no problems projecting yourself as belligerently as that...then no wonder other people are not going to consider us as such peaceful people.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

I already did. But perhaps you didn't pay attention.

The Quran says, "La ikraha fiddin". In the matter of religion, there is no compulsion. How can this be true while still giving the state license to enforce religion? If I don't want to say my prayers, is there a license under the Quran to allow the muttawa to forcibly send me to the mosque? If I don't want to keep a beard, are the Taliban's "amar bil maroof..." ghundas allowed to beat me into keeping one? If a female does not want to cover her head, can the Iranian religious police fine her or forcibly send her back home?

The answer to all the above in light of the Quran, is NO.

Islam provides guidelines on how to run a state. Yes, that is true. But it is not a system that seeks to impose itself on a people without their will. In this sense, it is no different to any democratic system. You can make any law in a democracy as long as the people will it.

assalam alaikum

Brother "La ikraha fiddin" is for non muslims but when u become a muslim u will have to abide the boundaries of islam e.g if a muslim does any bad that is punished under hadood he cant say i dont abide by it "La ikraha fiddin". This was understood in the time of prophet he punished muslims under hadood and and nobody told him "La ikraha fiddin" .

giving example of taliban, or iran is not a good one we all agreed they were not right and i agree with u most of the mullah have problem but on the other hand there r many other ppl have the same thing
BY THE WAY THERE IS A SAYING OF PROPHET
بــلــغــو عــنــى ولــو ايــة
IF WE KNOW ONLY ONE VERSE WE SHOULD TEACH IT OT OTHERS

TARIQ

 

[TechLahore]

assalam alaikum

Brother "La ikraha fiddin" is for non muslims but when u become a muslim u will have to abide the boundaries of islam e.g if a muslim does any bad that is punished under hadood he cant say i dont abide by it "La ikraha fiddin". This was understood in the time of prophet he punished muslims under hadood and and nobody told him "La ikraha fiddin" .

giving example of taliban, or iran is not a good one we all agreed they were not right and i agree with u most of the mullah have problem but on the other hand there r many other ppl have the same thing
BY THE WAY THERE IS A SAYING OF PROPHET
بــلــغــو عــنــى ولــو ايــة
IF WE KNOW ONLY ONE VERSE WE SHOULD TEACH IT OT OTHERS

TARIQ

Your post points out once again that there are differences. And numerous ones.

For one, you left the Saudis out. I think their interpretation of islam is the most poisonous. The Taliban were uneducated halfwits, but the Saudi religious establishment has been pure, unadulterated venom.

You then also cite a hadith, so once again let me tell you, there is no universal consensus in Islam even on the books which are referred to as "sahih".

Finally you make a point about hudood punishments and yet you fail to mention that the prerequisites for administering these punishments are so harsh that perhaps no one other than the Prophet could fulfill them. For example, you cannot administer the punishment for theft without first ensuring that no one in the state needs to steal to satisfy his or his family's hunger.

Once we have created a society where no one needs to steal, then we can revisit the issue of Sharia. Until then, I think hard work is more important than these airy fairy debates.

 

[Aeon]

Sister i see u got a big problem if u r a muslim Prophet (PBUH) knew about his faith he influence the ppl and after his death his companions did that if they didnot do it our ancestor would be worshipping idols or fire. If u believe that we muslims r on the right path then u need to influence them in a good manner so they can love islam and appreciate what is offer, the biggest islamic country indonesia , nobody invaded it it was yemeni traders and their honest dealing that attracted those ppl to islam.

If people are influenced by me of their *own* accord, then that is fine. i.e. they have a positive view of me due to my actions, character, manners, etc, and then later on learn about me being Muslim, and choose of THEIR OWN ACCORD that Islam is also a good path for them, THEN that is entirely upto them as their own decision, and is fine with me. But to go about actively preaching Islam to others, I dunnoo, I don't think I'm great enough to do something like that...or ever will be.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Here is my question:
If somehow the prophet showed up amongst us..................In Pakistan
How would he run the biz of the state? Would anyone question his decisions /actions?
It just occurred to me.I know it probably sounds ridiculous but lets assume that were some how possible.................how would our society be?
Would he be labelled Taliban, a reformer or a dictator etc etc..................

 

[TechLahore]

^^ I think he would rid the country of all the mullahs and bulldoze almost all the mosques. I have pointed out why I believe this to be the case in my posts above.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Your post points out once again that there are differences. And numerous ones.

For one, you left the Saudis out. I think their interpretation of islam is the most poisonous. The Taliban were uneducated halfwits, but the Saudi religious establishment has been pure, unadulterated venom.

You then also cite a hadith, so once again let me tell you, there is no universal consensus in Islam even on the books which are referred to as "sahih".

Finally you make a point about hudood punishments and yet you fail to mention that the prerequisites for administering these punishments are so harsh that perhaps no one other than the Prophet could fulfill them. For example, you cannot administer the punishment for theft without first ensuring that no one in the state needs to steal to satisfy his or his family's hunger.

Once we have created a society where no one needs to steal, then we can revisit the issue of Sharia. Until then, I think hard work is more important than these airy fairy debates.

assalam alaikum

Sorry if i left out someone not by design
Again u missed the point brother if only the Prophet (PBUH) punished the ppl or someone but those ppl didnot say ( لا اكــراه فى الـديـن ) Period coz what the Prophet did is a saunnah for us

It doesnot matter if we dont agree on ahadeeth or sahih books but there were incident that nobody can deny them during the Prophet time or after it the muslims claimed ( لا اكــراه فى الـديـن ) . it is only for non muslims i didnot fail coz i was telling u no muslim can come and tell us ( لا اكــراه فى الـديـن ) when he cross the boundaries.
i agree with u about stealing and we know from history i guess during the 2nd khalifah Omer R-A due to natural disaster punishment for stealing was not given.

I totally agree with u we should work hard to make our life well just like the Prophet ( PBUH) DID IN MAKKAH AND he was able to establish the govt. in madina , agreed 100 %

Yes agree on the bold part but who is starting those debates and try to over rule laws or scrapping them calling these laws were brough by some generals or whatever these laws r the demand of the masses just like the masses didnot listen to mullas as u ppl always say during pak independence days why the same masses listen to these mullah?
coz it is their demand doesnot matter who brought them.

Regards

TARIQ

 

[Tin Man]

I am perhaps the most secular person around and yes, i am a pakistani. What i meant by the madrassa comment was that the students are not given sufficient education in the sciences or languages. Religous association is made everywhere . This effectively clouds ones judgement when prompted to judge impartially or when determining a course of action. Even during the 71 war our generals believed they could win because allah was with them. They also kept reiterating the obnoxious martial races theory when questioned by americans about the chances of victory.