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Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

What a load of nonsense. Hadith were manufactured in Baghdad and elsewhere for centuries so you can believe in them all you like, it doesn't convince me.

If you are interested in the Muawiya discussion and what Ali thought of Muawiya, you might want to read the sermons of Ali from that period. They are published and available. You specifically asked about a reference re Muawiyah using the death of Usman for his ulterior motives. Here it is:

From a letter sent by Ali to Muawiyah: "But it is a different thing that you create all these false rumours and carry on this heinous propaganda to gain your ulterior motives. Well you may do whatever you like."

Nahj ul Balagha - Peak of Eloquence- Sermons, Letters, Sayings by Immam Ali (a.s)

You claim that an ayat in the Quran which references "those in authority" is somehow giving you justification for the system of Caliphate. What a joke. You have peppered the odd hadith here and there, but once again, hadith is not the Quran and not every muslim believes in every hadith and there is NOT A SINGLE sahih book of hadith that is agreed upon by all muslims.

You are now just cementing my argument about why a single sharia is so impractical. There is no agreement amongst muslims. What part of that do you not understand? As I said earlier, there is no agreement even on the number of children the Prophet had. There is no agreement on the role of Abu Sufiyaan and what his motives were. There is no agreement on Abubakr, Omar, Osman, Ali, Muawiya, Hasan, Husain, Yazid. There is NO AGREEMENT. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend this? There is NO AGREEMENT on the caliphs and their role. There is no agreement on the justifications used for conquest. There is no agreement on whether the Library of Alexandria should have been set alight.

If you want to go down this road and force your view of Islam on others, try to do it. You will get the same end result that we as muslims have been seeing for 1400 years. Discord, disruption, internal strife and more. Better to get on with your life and implement islam the way you see it in your personal affairs and forget about forcing your understanding on to other people. God forbid they force their understanding on you.

---------- Post added at 04:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------

The majority did not vote for Musharaf either...

Not sure where Musharraf comes in to this, but actually, at the time of the referendum, the majority did vote for him.
 
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The above describes your mental condition quite well. If you are unable to carry on a discussion, you stoop to personal insults. Wonderful.

If you really think that we need to have a hundred percent consenses to have any government in Pakistan, then I stand by my statement...

I m still puzzled... How can you come up with such a silly comment...

Just coz we differ on issues do not take all my statements as insults... Tolerance is a tenet...
 
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From a letter sent by Ali to Muawiyah: "But it is a different thing that you create all these false rumours and carry on this heinous propaganda to gain your ulterior motives. Well you may do whatever you like."


Does nt prove your assertion that Muawiyah fought Ali RA for Caliphate...

What a load of nonsense. Hadith were manufactured in Baghdad and elsewhere for centuries so you can believe in them all you like, it doesn't convince me.

I do not discuss with Munkareen e Hadith... Have a good night sir
 
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TechLahore

Yesterday u praised the Prophet (PBUH) and his family do u think he and his family will be happy what u say " Women work, they don't wear niqaabs, they sing and dance at weddings ". Instead of guiding the ppl we should lead them why the Prophet ( PBUH) didnot leave the kuffar and stayed in cave doing worship

Uncle I just want to say something on this post so please don't mind.

As far as I know the wife of Hazrat Abullah ibn-e-Masud R.A. used to work because Abdullah ibn-e-Masud was too poor to run the household alone and you know Abdullah ibn-e-Masud was one of the closest companion of Prophet Muhammad PBUH since the majority of Ahadeeth are narrated by him.

@ Singing

As far as I know there is no harm in Singing as long as you are not uttering rubbish or vulgar. Harm is in Music... please research once again and did you never sing a song?

Allah knows best

BTW, Thats off-topic so lets stick with the core issue
 
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TechLahore

Yesterday u praised the Prophet (PBUH) and his family do u think he and his family will be happy what u say " Women work, they don't wear niqaabs, they sing and dance at weddings ". Instead of guiding the ppl we should lead them why the Prophet ( PBUH) didnot leave the kuffar and stayed in cave doing worship

anyhow niqab is not farz it is said by ulem women can wear or not wear

On the side note i can't pm or recieve pm i dont see the sign on the nickname i asked earlier T-Faz deleted my post and didnot give me a hint

TARIQ

You miss the point once again. The majority of the people in Pakistan are liberal and they do enjoy themselves in all the ways I mentioned in my post.

I don't believe in forcing my beliefs and views on other people. If someone wants to sing, they are welcome to do it. If they want to dance, great. I will conduct my affairs in the manner I deem fit. I find it incredibly offensive and in bad taste when people try to push their views on me, so I definitely don't want to convince anyone overtly. If they see how I behave and like my mannerisms, they are welcome to emulate them. I refuse to force my world view on others.
 
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TechLahore

Yesterday u praised the Prophet (PBUH) and his family do u think he and his family will be happy what u say " Women work, they don't wear niqaabs, they sing and dance at weddings ". Instead of guiding the ppl we should lead them why the Prophet ( PBUH) didnot leave the kuffar and stayed in cave doing worship

anyhow niqab is not farz it is said by ulem women can wear or not wear

On the side note i can't pm or recieve pm i dont see the sign on the nickname i asked earlier T-Faz deleted my post and didnot give me a hint

TARIQ

Nothing wrong with women singing and dancing amongst themselves dude...
 
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What a load of nonsense. Hadith were manufactured in Baghdad and elsewhere for centuries so you can believe in them all you like, it doesn't convince me.

I do not discuss with Munkareen e Hadith... Have a good night sir

Good. That means you don't "discuss with" a full 85% of humanity. Good for you for being so open minded.
 
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Good. That means you don't "discuss with" a full 85% of humanity. Good for you for being so open minded.

Sir if you reject all the Hadith in this manner then I m sorry to inform you that your claim of being a Muslim will not be accepted by 100% of Muslims...

As for 85% of humanity... Alhumdulilah my discussions have resulted in people accepting Islam on my hand... 85 percent of humanity is not classified as munkareen e hadith btw... There are Muslims and there are non Muslims... and Munkareen e Hadith are a type in the latter camp...
 
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Sir if you reject all the Hadith in this manner then I m sorry to inform you that you re claim of being a Muslim will not be accepted by 100% of Muslims...

This is the only way of Peace in this world

156779_463497922581_742117581_5720822_2989110_n.jpg


Don't judge other's faith. If you think you are right, congratulations

no need to give verdicts on others way of interpreting Islam.

End of the day, Allah knows best :thinktank:
 
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If you really think that we need to have a hundred percent consenses to have any government in Pakistan, then I stand by my statement...

Your statement, i.e. your personal insults? Good. Stand by them. They suit you and you clearly suit them.

Just coz we differ on issues do not take all my statements as insults... Tolerance is a tenet...

No, what makes your statements personal insults is when you call people "idiot" or compare them to an "8 year old child". But then you would have to have some grounding in civility to understand that.

You are a wonderful example of a hadith thumper! You couldn't even control your temper enough to get your argument across without descending to the level of throwing out personal insults. I am very happy that everyone here got to see your behaviour. Let's make sure they associate it with your type. You are a great asset to those who make the case for a liberal society.

And by the by, you need to look up the words "tolerance" and "tenet" in the dictionary. Just a few days ago you were asking me to ban people who disagreed with you. Looks like you either didn't quite understand what tolerance meant, or you don't have the stomach for a debate.
 
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Uncle I just want to say something on this post so please don't mind.

As far as I know the wife of Hazrat Abullah ibn-e-Masud R.A. used to work because Abdullah ibn-e-Masud was too poor to run the household alone and you know Abdullah ibn-e-Masud was one of the closest companion of Prophet Muhammad PBUH since the majority of Ahadeeth are narrated by him.

@ Singing

As far as I know there is no harm in Singing as long as you are not uttering rubbish or vulgar. Harm is in Music... please research once again and did you never sing a song?

Allah knows best

BTW, Thats off-topic so lets stick with the core issue

assalam alaikum

u r wellcome brother i didnot say anything about work. U r right on the point about singing agree with u but if a dance in front of men then there is a problem and if not then his argument collapsed i wish if he responded to it.
no i don't mind taking any advice from anyone

TARIQ
 
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Your statement, i.e. your personal insults? Good. Stand by them. They suit you and you clearly suit them.



No, what makes your statements personal insults is when you call people "idiot" or compare them to an "8 year old child". But then you would have to have some grounding in civility to understand that.

You are a wonderful example of a hadith thumper! You couldn't even control your temper enough to get your argument across without descending to the level of throwing out personal insults. I am very happy that everyone here got to see your behaviour. Let's make sure they associate it with your type. You are a great asset to those who make the case for a liberal society.

And by the by, you need to look up the words "tolerance" and "tenet" in the dictionary. Just a few days ago you were asking me to ban people who disagreed with you. Looks like you either didn't quite understand what tolerance meant, or you don't have the stomach for a debate.

Dont lie... I never asked you to ban anyone... I merely told you to monitor them...

As for calling you an idiot... I never called you an idiot... an 8 year old child is not an idiot... Immature perhaps... How old are you?
 
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This is the only way of Peace in this world

156779_463497922581_742117581_5720822_2989110_n.jpg


Don't judge other's faith. If you think you are right, congratulations

no need to give verdicts on others way of interpreting Islam.

End of the day, Allah knows best :thinktank:

Yaar Zaki... YOu know fully well what I am saying... :no:
 
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