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Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

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Chicken and egg really but here goes ...

Thinking out loud ...

A group of Scholars, who may have gone through a process
which appeals to general public's acceptance by in large.

This does not equate to a donkey and a horse casting equal voice.

It is not a 'chicken or the egg' argument by any means- if you are going to propose a system, then the system needs to be clearly defined.

On the subject of 'scholars' - what kinds of scholars, and how do we measure the General public's acceptance of these 'scholars'?

Shall the general public 'vote' on the scholars, and those with the highest votes win? What will the length of the scholars term be? Can the public remove them if they disagree win their decisions? What is the length of the term of the Caliph?
 
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I have ignored nothing - you and the others advocating an 'Islamic System' have been unable to define such a system and provide details on how it is to function and what makes it better/different than the basic Democratic principles we know of today.
Though this isn't written by me, it should answer some stuff:

The Islamic system and democracy are similar :

1. Maximum freedom for the people - freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to travel, and freedom of economy. (No different from democracy).

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

[10:99] Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?

[88:21] You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder.
[88:22] You have no power over them.


2. Guaranteed human rights for all the people, regardless of their race, color, creed, social status, financial situation, or political affiliation (Again. no different from democracy).

[5:8] O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses. Do not be provoked by your conflicts with some people into committing injustice. You shall be absolutely equitable, for it is more righteous. You shall observe GOD. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

[49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

3. An economic system based on constant circulation of wealth, no usury(Usury means excessive interest), and productive investment. Non-productive economy such as gambling, lottery, and high interest loans are not permitted. (Slightly different)

[2:275] Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, GOD permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with GOD. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever.

[2:276] GOD condemns usury, and blesses charities. GOD dislikes every disbeliever, guilty.


4. Social justice for all.(Again. no different from democracy).

[2:215] They ask you about giving: say, "The charity you give shall go to the parents, the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the traveling alien." Any good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof.


[70:24] Part of their money is set aside.
[70:25] For the poor and the needy.


5. A political system that is based on unanimous consensus. Through mutual consultation and freedom of expression, one side of any given issue convinces all participants in the discussion. The end result is a unanimous agreement, not the opinion of a 51% majority rammed down the throat of the 49% minority.(Slightly different perhaps).

[42:38] They respond to their Lord by observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Their affairs are decided after due consultation among themselves, and from our provisions to them they give (to charity).

7. Maximum regard for people's lives and properties.(Again. no different from democracy).

among other things.
 
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It is not a 'chicken or the egg' argument by any means- if you are going to propose a system, then the system needs to be clearly defined.

On the subject of 'scholars' - what kinds of scholars, and how do we measure the General public's acceptance of these 'scholars'?

Shall the general public 'vote' on the scholars, and those with the highest votes win? What will the length of the scholars term be? Can the public remove them if they disagree win their decisions? What is the length of the term of the Caliph?

Please sir read the book.. it should answer most of ur questions.

http://www.hizb-pakistan.org/home/wp...m_of_islam.pdf
 
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bro why is the page blank?

blank?

Wait for it to download completely...

The book is excellent if you want to understand the ins and outs of the government structure... However if you are an avid book collector like me you can also get this book on Islamic governance...

The Ordinances of Government: Al-Ahkam As-Sultaniyyah W'at Wilayat Al Dinniyya Great Books of Islamic Civilization: Amazon.co.uk: Al-Mawardi, Wafaa Wahba: Books

The original of this book is almost a thousand years old... So whos fault is it now that we are still asking about the system of Islam when thousand year old books are available on the issue... tsk tsk

hmmmm :no:
 
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Though this isn't written by me, it should answer some stuff:

The Islamic system and democracy are similar :

1. Maximum freedom for the people - freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to travel, and freedom of economy. (No different from democracy).

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

[10:99] Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?

[88:21] You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder.
[88:22] You have no power over them.


2. Guaranteed human rights for all the people, regardless of their race, color, creed, social status, financial situation, or political affiliation (Again. no different from democracy).

[5:8] O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses. Do not be provoked by your conflicts with some people into committing injustice. You shall be absolutely equitable, for it is more righteous. You shall observe GOD. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

[49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

3. An economic system based on constant circulation of wealth, no usury(Usury means excessive interest), and productive investment. Non-productive economy such as gambling, lottery, and high interest loans are not permitted. (Slightly different)

[2:275] Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, GOD permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with GOD. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever.

[2:276] GOD condemns usury, and blesses charities. GOD dislikes every disbeliever, guilty.


4. Social justice for all.(Again. no different from democracy).

[2:215] They ask you about giving: say, "The charity you give shall go to the parents, the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the traveling alien." Any good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof.


[70:24] Part of their money is set aside.
[70:25] For the poor and the needy.


5. A political system that is based on unanimous consensus. Through mutual consultation and freedom of expression, one side of any given issue convinces all participants in the discussion. The end result is a unanimous agreement, not the opinion of a 51% majority rammed down the throat of the 49% minority.(Slightly different perhaps).

[42:38] They respond to their Lord by observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Their affairs are decided after due consultation among themselves, and from our provisions to them they give (to charity).

7. Maximum regard for people's lives and properties.(Again. no different from democracy).

among other things.


nice post bro...

But i dont think any man made system is worthy of comparison with the laws that were permitted by allah.
In islamic law if practiced properly muslims will think twice of doing bad things and fear allah in democracy people will have no fear of doing bad things..

im tired and cant really explain what i meant.. lol
 
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Guys, if you have read the book, then you should be able to answer my questions on providing some basic details about this proposed 'islamic system' instead of asking me to read this book or see that video. If you have read it, then answer the questions.
 
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blank?

Wait for it to download completely...

The book is excellent if you want to understand the ins and outs of the government structure... However if you are an avid book collector like me you can also get this book on Islamic governance...

The Ordinances of Government: Al-Ahkam As-Sultaniyyah W'at Wilayat Al Dinniyya Great Books of Islamic Civilization: Amazon.co.uk: Al-Mawardi, Wafaa Wahba: Books

The original of this book is almost a thousand years old... So whos fault is it now that we are still asking about the system of Islam when thousand year old books are available on the issue... tsk tsk

hmmmm :no:

yes the link is working...
I am gonna read it tonight.



All i can say... shame on pakistan.
 
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Guys, if you have read the book, then you should be able to answer my questions on providing some basic details about this proposed 'islamic system' instead of asking me to read this book or see that video. If you have read it, then answer the questions.

Some of the questions I have answered in the other thread that I placed the link for... If you have any more do feel free to ask... but dont repeat the same questions please...
 
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Some of the questions I have answered in the other thread that I placed the link for... If you have any more do feel free to ask... but dont repeat the same questions please...

You can copy the previous responses and post them here, or provide a link to the relevant post - this thread deals with the subject of an Islamic system so it should contain those responses.
 
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Good question,

The first 4 Caliphs were hand picked,

The fact of the matter is, the same can be true today,

If as in a Caliph we actually believe and have faith, that he ( The Caliphs) is Allah's second in command on earth.

Shall we have any doubt in their decision ?

That's actually completely inaccurate. The method of selecting/electing/appointing the first four caliphs was completely different - there was no standard practice employed between the four.

Can you provide the appropriate ayat in the Quran that says the Caliph is God's second in command?

I tire with these unending perversions of Islam...
 
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If you were non-muslim I am not allowed to force you to convert to Islam but actually only influence you to convert to islam thats why we have to be good muslims front of them.
But In islam it is our duty to guide fellow muslims.

Please read... this must be the 10th time i am posting this..

kahan ki baat ko kahan lay aey sir ... i strictly beleive in my religion to be my business why are you confusing it with the conversation here , my point was the second para .. with so many sects and bloody fueds btw sects a shariah or an islamic system cant be implemented!! now if you disagree please tell me what you have to say.
 
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