When will China's military be able to challenge the U.S.?

[TorontoNoctis]

Nice try Chinaowns but body armor especially with ceramic plates is superior to flak jackets in every way when it comes to shrapnel. You have absolutely no proof that a modern military would revert to flak jackets if they were fighting non-terrorists. It is a completely ignorant thing to say.

This is what happens when most of your knowledge comes from Internet and Wiki instead of books. If you read books about WW2 and WW1 you would have known the number one killer was fragmentation and you would know the purpose and need of effective body armor but instead you have no idea.

P.S. Mentioning the North Hollywood shootout as an example of the ineffectiveness of body armor has either got to be a deliberate troll or the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Because they had body armor they were able to survive thousands of rounds against police while outnumbered a hundred to one.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

lets remember this everything has a dark side associated with it, the only difference between democracy and communism is that , the dark side of communism is more darker than that of democracy.

The deaths caused by communism are OVEREXAGGERATED, most of the so called death numbers were based on random estimations and then multiplied over the course of their reign.

In the 1960's and 1970's all the people in the USA thought that millions were starving to death in China everyday when in reality China experienced her greatest population boom.

Every government played a lot of stupid propaganda

The people in communist governments thought that millions were dying everyday in free countries due to a handful of wealthy hoarding all the wealth.

When discussing communism its best to look at facts. Most communist leaders made lives better for their people.

Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea all had a literacy rate of 99% after 10-20 years due to mass education programs

 

[challenger]

Jesus... not again communism v/s capitalism debate.

IMO, which ever system makes China stronger is acceptable to the Chinese. Even if it means dictatorship, so be it. What concerns me is China's strength.

 

[below_freezing]

This is totally unprofessional layman type reply.

Iraq had a good air force. What happened to it?

And about strategic missiles, yes, this is one field where China is showing development. But this is not enough.

no it didn't, there is no such thing as a bought and powerful air force. the best air forces are home made.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Nice try Chinaowns but body armor especially with ceramic plates is superior to flak jackets in every way when it comes to shrapnel. You have absolutely no proof that a modern military would revert to flak jackets if they were fighting non-terrorists. It is a completely ignorant thing to say.

This is what happens when most of your knowledge comes from Internet and Wiki instead of books. If you read books about WW2 and WW1 you would have known the number one killer was fragmentation and you would know the purpose and need of effective body armor but instead you have no idea.

P.S. Mentioning the North Hollywood shootout as an example of the ineffectiveness of body armor has either got to be a deliberate troll or the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Because they had body armor they were able to survive thousands of rounds against police while outnumbered a hundred to one.

Only because the police had only small arms.

Flak jackets are preferable to body armor due to the fact that you are protected from the main killer of infantry (shrapnel) while maintaining ease of movement.

The North hollywood shootout is a good example that body armor doesn't work because after the incident the government simply gave military grade arms to the police forces.

Now why would they give military grade arms to civilian police (after the incident where police realized that they could not penetrate using police issued weapons) if they weren't capable of penetrating body armor?

Body armor is only effective against terrorists that are using cold war era stuff like M-16 and Ak-47 not against modern militaries which was my entire point

 

[Masterchief]

The deaths caused by communism are OVEREXAGGERATED, most of the so called death numbers were based on random estimations and then multiplied over the course of their reign.

In the 1960's and 1970's all the people in the USA thought that millions were starving to death in China everyday when in reality China experienced her greatest population boom.

Every government played a lot of stupid propaganda

YouTube - Commies Will BrainWash You

The people in communist governments thought that millions were dying everyday in free countries due to a handful of wealthy hoarding all the wealth.

When discussing communism its best to look at facts. Most communist leaders made lives better for their people.

Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea all had a literacy rate of 99% after 10-20 years due to mass education programs

hmmm yeah i agree with some points here its just like indians are uncomfortable with communism and china is uncomfortable with democracy, we both have adepted to our environments

 

[challenger]

no it didn't, there is no such thing as a bought and powerful air force. the best air forces are home made.

I did not downplay the importance of domestic industry. But relying fully on the development of hardwares like parts of fighters jets and waiting until its completion will drag China behind. Enemies are not sitting idle, they are advancing and advancing faster.

The U.S. military buys technology already available on the open market when it can, such as global positioning systems used in the Gulf War, a cheaper and more practical method than trying to develop such equipment itself, the commentary said.

China paper warns military thinking outmoded | Reuters

 

[challenger]

@ Chinaownseverything,

Be advised that your replies to communism v/s democracy debate will derail the thread.

 

[TorontoNoctis]

Wrong. Your own source says that the M16, a military grade firearm, failed to penetrate. Are you claiming to be an expert on ballistics now and think that the Chinese rounds are vastly superior to American rounds? I'm guessing you have zero firearms experience and are therefore unable to make any ballistics claims because no matter how hard you dig on the Internet you will never find real statistics. Just because police are issued M16 that doesn't mean anything, only a political reaction especially since they aren't loaded with armor piercing rounds. Meanwhile you ignore the testimony of an officer who said his M16 was unable to penetrate.

What body armor does is force the enemy to close in for more accuracy and headshots or in the case of North Hollywood leg shots rather than aiming at the center of mass. This is a tactical advantage no matter how you spin it. Your claims that flak jackets are just as effective against shrapnel as body armor are ludicrous and completely unsupported. Body armor is a direct replacement for flak jackets whether you like it or not.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Also look at the Blackwater mercenaries these guys are PROFESSIONAL soldiers, killing people is their career most of them unlike the marine who's goal is to get college money and leave the military

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide

Most blackwater mercenaries choose to wear NO ARMOR

or extremely little armor, the guys that these guys go up against are more heavily armed than the average insurgent, they know damn well that body armor is useless

 

[TorontoNoctis]

Are you seriously calling Blackwater professional? They are mostly ex-military drummed out because they are undisciplined or criminal.

Make up your mind Chinaowns, you said body armor is only useful against terrorists, now you change your mind and say it isn't useful at all? What a joker.

 

[challenger]

Also look at the Blackwater mercenaries these guys are PROFESSIONAL soldiers, killing people is their career most of them unlike the marine who's goal is to get college money and leave the military

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide

Most blackwater mercenaries choose to wear NO ARMOR

or extremely little armor, the guys that these guys go up against are more heavily armed than the average insurgent, they know damn well that body armor is useless

They are not in combat operations lol

And these mercenaries engage enemies in guerrilla type warfares, not in pitched battle. They often kidnap people storming into houses suddenly. They are not regular troops. They are not supposed to face bullet shots coming from all directions from opponent troops in battle fields.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Also French Foreign legion in Yugoslavia, little to no armor

Now look at French foreign legion in Afghanistan see all the heavy armor they bring to the party?

The militants in Yugoslavia are EXTREMELY well armed with modern weapons mostly stolen/bought from the Russian arms industry.

The militants in Afghanistan are armed with AK-47.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Are you seriously calling Blackwater professional? They are mostly ex-military drummed out because they are undisciplined or criminal.

Make up your mind Chinaowns, you said body armor is only useful against terrorists, now you change your mind and say it isn't useful at all? What a joker.

The people that blackwater deals with are not low grade terrorists, and each blackwater mercenary is paid $100,000+ a year

Each USA marine is paid like $5,000 a year

Blackwater Mercenaries are ELITE soldiers

 

[challenger]

Also French Foreign legion in Yugoslavia, little to no armor

So what is your point? Troops should not wear body armors in battle fields?