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When Sanctions lifted, Pak-Iranian joint military exercises discussed.

Lets look at things a little more critically. Iran was the first country to accept Pakistan as a state. We conducted operations together in the 1970's and ties were at their nadir during the 70's. On the other hand the Arab League does not have us as an observer member but India is an observer member.

There are problems in Iran too currently and it is not a perfect state, which state is anyway? But in this time we do not need more enemies. I don't see how Iran has back stabbed us ever? Iran is all about muslim unity. That is one thing I have noticed though. So if a Muslim country is seeking friendship with other Islamic states, I don't see the problem.

LOL um the betrayal was this right here, as reported by an Indian author and former diplomat.
Revealed: Why Iran did for India and why it hurts

Strikingly similar to the crisis that Iran faced at the IAEA Board meeting in Vienna last weekend, India too found itself in a tight spot in April 1994 at the United Nations Human Rights Commission's annual session in Geneva.

Iran vote and after: Complete coverage

Curiously, India and Iran found themselves entangled with each other then too, as of now -- but with an entirely different body language.

If there is a Shakespearean touch to the sense of betrayal that Iran is so evidently harbouring today over India's vote against it at Vienna, how much of that harks back to silent memories of what had transpired between the two countries in 1994, we shall never quite know.

Persians may find it to be in bad taste to be blunt and forthright on such delicate issues as trust and betrayal.

In April 1994, when the UNHRC was assembling in Geneva, India faced an ugly situation. We were just pulling out of a grave economic crisis (of our own making, though) and were extremely vulnerable to the goodwill of international financial institutions.

More importantly, the Kashmir valley was burning -- witnessing some of the bloodiest violence in its unhappy history. The country itself was panting and heaving from the bloodletting of communal violence -- hidden medieval passions were tearing it apart.

Back in 1994, India was not yet possessed with the swagger and all-knowing cockiness of its current middle class optimism -- or, for that matter, its frightening pragmatism that is determined to make every relationship outright profitable.

The politics of reciprocity

Internationally too, the climate was uncertain. Boris Yeltsin's Russia was lurching toward the West in drunken stupor, and there was a big question mark as to the availability of a 'Soviet' veto if the Kashmir file ever again got reopened in the UN's business dealings.

Technically, if the UNHRC in Geneva adopted a resolution condemning India for grave human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir, a pathway would have opened for any of India's detractors (not only Pakistan) for referral of the 'Kashmir problem' to the UN in New York. The crisis was comparable to what could happen today if the IAEA indeed decided on a UN Security Council referral apropos of the Iran's 'nuclear problem.'

The assessment in the foreign policy establishment in Delhi at that time was that in the event of the Kashmir resolution coming up in Geneva, it had a strong possibility of getting adopted.

The draft resolution enjoyed the support of the 54-member states of the Organisation of Islamic conference and possibly some faraway countries in the Western world. Of course, Pakistan was its prime mover.

Iran clarifies stand on Kashmir

>Thus it was that on a cold wind swept morning in late March in 1994 with the Elbruz Mountain still wrapped in sheets of snow that an Indian military plane landed in Teheran airport bearing the then Indian external affairs minister Dinesh Singh and three accompanying officials from Delhi as his co-passengers.

The minister was visiting Iran to deliver in person an urgent letter from Prime Minister P V Narasimha Rao addressed to Iranian President, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. Rao was seeking Iran's last-minute intervention at the OIC with a view to ensuring that the Kashmir resolution did not pass through the UNHRC.

The OIC (like the IAEA) too had a convention that all decisions had to be arrived at through consensus. So, Rao shrewdly assessed that if a prominent OIC member like Iran were to abstain, there would be no 'consensus.' Rao was greatly averse to Dinesh Singh undertaking the mission, as the minister was seriously ill from the multiple strokes he had suffered a few months ago.

India, Iran discuss ways to tackle terrorism

But Dinesh Singh ("Raja Saheb") would have no one else undertake such a crucial mission -- and Rao reluctantly gave in. Sadly, that also happened to be the last mission undertaken by Dinesh Singh in a diplomatic career spread over five decades.

In fact, after one look at Dinesh Singh alighting from the aircraft, Iranian Foreign Minister Dr Ali Akbar Velayati, who was waiting at the tarmac, impulsively asked what on earth could be of such momentous importance for the minister to undertake such a perilous journey in such a poor state of health.

Dinesh Singh went through his 'Kashmir brief' diligently through the day's meetings with his Iranian interlocutors -– apart from Dr Velayati, President Rafsanjani and the Speaker of the Iranian Majlis Nateq-Nouri. The Iranian side politely noted the minister's demarche.

All in all, the business was transacted in a matter of 6 or 7 hours. Dinesh Singh left immediately for the airport for his return journey.

India, Iran sign Tehran Declaration

As he was emplaning, Dr Velayati who had come to the airport, reached out and holding Dinesh Singh's hands together in his, said: 'Ali Hashemi (President Rafsanjani) wanted me to convey his assurance to Prime Minister Rao that Iran will do all it can to ensure that no harm comes to India.'

After the plane took off, Dinesh Singh and his three co-passengers pondered over the import of what Velayati said. Did it mean that Iran would get the OIC resolution watered down? Or, would the resolution leave out any outright condemnation of India that attracted the UN's wrath?

It took 72 anxious hours more for Delhi to realise that instead of a halfway solution, Iran went ahead with surgical skill and literally killed the OIC move to table the resolution at a UN forum. We heard later that as the Pakistani ambassador sought to move the OIC resolution, his Iranian counterpart in Geneva acted on directives from Teheran and made an intervention.

He said that for Iran, both Pakistan and India were close friends, and Iran would be loathe to the idea that problems between friends could not be sorted out between the two of them, and needed instead to be raised at an international forum.

That was the last time that Pakistan sought to get a resolution over Kashmir issue tabled at a UN forum.

Thus, when the head of Iran's National Security Council, Ali Larijani said last Tuesday with a palpable sense of hurt: 'India was our friend. We did not expect India to do so' -- he would have had much more in mind than the 'shock and awe' that India administered to Iran last weekend at Vienna.

Iran talks pipeline, India says security

Larijani's erudite mind could not have missed the dramatic irony of it all -- that Teheran should have salvaged India's day at the OIC 11 years ago, and Delhi having a sudden, unexplained, inexplicable memory lapse in the IAEA.

And, on both occasions, it boiled down to how to kill a mocking bird -- how to keep a festering wound from being prised away for therapy in distant New York.

M K Bhadrakumar is a former Indian ambassador with extensive experience in handling India's relations with Iran

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Today Iran has changed its stance on Kashmir after the Indians refused to back them up at the IAEA and later in the UN but had Iran not betrayed Pakistan then much blood that has been spilled since could have been avoided. The ultimate betrayal. Oh and they tattled on AQ Khan claiming he was engaging in nuclear proliferation which is the reason the US has always asked to speak to him.

Secondly @Daneshmand keeps bringing up the same bs that Pakistan declared neutrality in the Iran-Iraq war but the truth is Pakistan shipped stinger and silkworms to Iran during this period. As you are aware Pakistan had almost no relations with the Iraqis at the time because weapons were found in their embassy and their ambassador expelled so Pakistan sided with Iran despite huge pressure from other countries to support Iraq. I even mentioned this the last time he brought it up but like they say in urdu kutte khi dhum tera hi tera rehta hai.

@JonAsad
 
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It's too good to believe, Even if Iran is able to broker the deal than it will not be like that all sanctions will be lifted as soon as agreement is signed, most probably there will be milestones and it will be lifted in phases - (Lifting all sanctions and release of all ceased assets all of sudden is also not good for Iran's own economy - And Iranian govt. will be looking to gradually decrease dollar against riyal, to avoid any may day in local economy) , so it's too early to predict what will be nature of Pak-Iran military relation - but on economic front IP (may be IPI again), diversification of oil source (I would be surprise if our strategist don't do it), will be major things other than import/export of other commodities.
 
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COAS has announced in next few month grand operation is coming in Baluchistan . And he mean it.

I think Tirah Valley is taking lot more time and efforts, as soon as it's cleared Army will be in position to take out troops to hunt the yahoos in Baluchistan. They has played enough with ill equipped FC.
 
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I think Tirah Valley is taking lot more time and efforts, as soon as it's cleared Army will be in position to take out troops to hunt the yahoos in Baluchistan. They has played enough with ill equipped FC.
I hope COAS stay in power for little long, otherwise say goodbye to Pakistan. But he need to start grand operation in Punjab too. Specially in Raiwind Palace....
 
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I thought Pakistani members all say that Pakistanis are not sectarian. Since when did it become about Sunni-Shia?

But anyways, it doesn't matter how the goal is achieved, what we want is a terror free Baluchistan, Pakistan's army doesn't have the resolve to do anything effective against it now, but if the relations improve, things will change, hopefully.

We are not sectarian his are views and opinion of an individual, that's all they are and in noway representative of the majority, overall as general public see it everyone is human after all, All Pakistanis, we are the home of Sufism & Sufi Islam, but unfortunately it's been hijacked by few with hatred for humanity.

It would not be nice to ammend relations with iran while being nuetral in the arab conflict-
It will give out bad signals and intentions-

And iran as usual will backstab Pakistan and go into the lap of India when the push will come to shove-

We should have policy of Zero Problems with our neighbours barring India until all disputes are settled.

We need to have independent policy and not be reliant wholly on anyone, take what opportunities come and if having just professional relationship with Iran helps in our development and economy then let's get our interests out of it with Iran and any other country in the Middle East for that matter.
 
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A group of Iranian AF cadet pilots were on a mutual visit to Pakistan and they were killed there.

I am not aware of any such incident that may be because of my short knowledge ... would appreciate if you can share some detail with links for further reading

Also several Iranian diplomats were killed in Pakistan. You can search the internet and find more.

I think you are mixing here Afghanistan incident with Sadiq Ganji (Iranian Consul General to Pakistan) Murder in Karachi which is the only incident of killing of Iranian diplomat in Pakistan till to date, secondly you might not be aware that we have hanged that Terrorist who was involved in the murder of Sadiq Ganji.

Our problem is the Iran-Saudi proxy war on our soil, you might not be aware that even Iran is also involve in such type attacks like few years back Iranian back group killed a Saudi diplomat in Karachi.
 
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It would not be nice to ammend relations with iran while being nuetral in the arab conflict-
It will give out bad signals and intentions-

And iran as usual will backstab Pakistan and go into the lap of India when the push will come to shove-
Put this in your head : We will have relations with every country we want. We do not care about your problems with India, foreign relations of other country is not important to us otherwise we would diss India for having relations with Israel.

Thats now how real life politics work.
 
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I am not aware of any such incident that may short knowledge ... would appreciate if you can share some detail with links for further reading



I think you are mixing here Afghanistan incident with Sadiq Ganji (Iranian Consul General to Pakistan) Murder in Karachi which is the only incident of killing of Iranian diplomat in Pakistan till to date, secondly you might not be aware that we have hanged that Terrorist who was involved in the murder of Sadiq Ganji.

Our problem is the Iran-Saudi proxy war on our soil, you might not be aware that even Iran is also involve in such type attacks like few years back Iranian back group killed a Saudi diplomat in Karachi.

No. That is another separate shameful incident.

Here are some links you can google and find thousands more (it is amazing that Pakistanis do not even know about these):

We're dying from apathy, not terrorism - Blogs - DAWN.COM

Asia Times: Islamabad urged to get tough with sectarianism
 
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I thought Pakistani members all say that Pakistanis are not sectarian. Since when did it become about Sunni-Shia?

But anyways, it doesn't matter how the goal is achieved, what we want is a terror free Baluchistan, Pakistan's army doesn't have the resolve to do anything effective against it now, but if the relations improve, things will change, hopefully.
Gen Raheel Sharif when on a trip to Quetta there was a discussion that the Zarb e Azb can be taken to baluchistan as well to take our its insurgency because after recent UAE threats its more likely now.

If u guys remember @Horus did told u guys before that we have plans to take out jundullah etc groups who reside in balochistan and take activities in iran. But what we do here in our country is to focus on one objective at a time, since now Zarb e Azb in KPK is in its final stages we r in a better position to plan it further ahead.

So keeping in view the above the joint military action in our territory is out of question since we r capable to taking them out ourselves and above all the efficiency of our forces is above anyone in this region and when it comes to experience in combat we are with the best in the world specially with Low Intensity Conflicts (LIC) situations.

Also if this needs is true it also says that Yr cadets officers and soldiers r going to come in our military academies not the other way around so it means u guys also want to cash in from our vast war fighting experience. At best what we want from yr services is that when we r conducting the operation in our side u do the same in yr side so the terrorists can be crushed from both sides and r not allowed to escape from pakistan to their hide outs in iran like they do in afghanistan when we take action. A joint border management can do a better job for us then joint military operation atleast for now.

Still the overall priority is to restore our relation on the levels it was in Shah's times and go beyond......We r looking to build some sort of regional alliance with China in our part of the world.

Thats a very big claim.
that was always our aim, our since the revolution the new guys didnt trust us much.
 
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But as soon as, Iran became a republic and when Iran's government was at its weakest, a year after the revolution and just afew months when new Iranian government was formed, Saddam attacked Iran. Pakistan stood by and declared "neutrality". Then a wave of anti-Shia militancy swept over Pakistan which resulted not only in Pakistani Shias being killed ..
we have a state policy of not participating in the muslim vs muslim conflicts, hence official neutrality thats one of the main reasons why we have stayed neutral in yemen conflict as well. But we did send u weapons like stinger weapons system and other chinese system of same class. Stinger was supplied for pakistan to arm the mujahedeen in afghanistan by americans. Thats one of the reasons why america considers us a non reliable ally......

The reason why we facilitated the americans to attack afghanistan was because they had threatened us 'to bomb us back to the stone age' still we just gave them logistical support nothing else. Bush wanted us to commit our armies to both Afghanistan and Iraq but we refused. We only started to give them intel support since 2007 when TTP was created in hope that they will end their support to TTP since they had created them.

The name of the game is different in our country and it works in a different way and we r very successful with it.
 
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Secondly @Daneshmand keeps bringing up the same bs that Pakistan declared neutrality in the Iran-Iraq war but the truth is Pakistan shipped stinger and silkworms to Iran during this period. As you are aware Pakistan had almost no relations with the Iraqis at the time because weapons were found in their embassy and their ambassador expelled so Pakistan sided with Iran despite huge pressure from other countries to support Iraq. I even mentioned this the last time he brought it up but like they say in urdu kutte khi dhum tera hi tera rehta hai.

@JonAsad

It's hilarious. On one hand, @Daneshmand says Pakistan should appreciate the friendly relations Reza Shah Pehlavi had with us. On the other hand, he is telling us we should have supported a radical mullah state which deposed of one of our good friends.
Oh, and I can't help but notice how this guy actively shills here on about Pakistani neutrality in Yemen while at the same time, shaking a fist at us for not supporting Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. What happened to neutrality and staying out of the Arab world, buddy?
 
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It's hilarious. On one hand, @Daneshmand says Pakistan should appreciate the friendly relations Reza Shah Pehlavi had with us. On the other hand, he is telling us we should have supported a radical mullah state which deposed of one of our good friends.
Oh, and I can't help but notice how this guy actively shills here on about Pakistani neutrality in Yemen while at the same time, shaking a fist at us for not supporting Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. What happened to neutrality and staying out of the Arab world, buddy?
Our friendship should be with people of Iran rather than just one person. The shah was a great friend of Pakistan, but his removal shouldn't mean we should cut off ties with the entire nation. Did the Saudis cut ties with Pakistan when their friend Nawaz Sharif was removed? Did China break off contact with Pakistan when Bhutto was removed? Mind you, it was Bhutto who came up with the plan of allying with China.

Let me tell you about backstabbing: Who inspired Taliban ideologically? Who funded their madrassas? who armed them? who is killing Pakistani soldiers and civilians today?Is it enough or shall I go on?
You have failed to differentiate between Taliban and TTP. Taliban is not considered a terrorist organization even by USA, meanwhile TTP is a terrorist organization with no connection to Pakistani state. It is like you are saying Iran created ISIS just because they support hezbollah (declared terrorist organization). That's how ridiculous your statement is.
 
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