When less is more: A soliders load

[Irfan Baloch]

I don't know man, every section have their interest, yes, there are quite a lot of idiots around in other section, but then it's just like life I guess, you have to get through those idiots before getting to the stuff that you want.

I will post more on Pakistan Army section, or at least be on look out on interesting topic.

you have our respect. thanks for sharing your experiences.

internet gives a sense of anonymity and freedom to misbehave hate and its irresistible for many nameless nobodies don't engage with them they are weeded out on regular basis and never missed,

 

[White privilege]

There is a reason why we don't arm every single soldier with SAW......LMG is kind of pointless in real firefight....

We are not talking about Call of Duty, where external factor like bullet load and replacement barrel didnt comes into play, and there is no magical accuracy on LMG that you can actually aim down the sight. You basically just use it as it was intended to do, and that's pump a lot of lead downrange.

Fire(power) management is one very important factor in any firefight, because bullet is heavy and it comes with limited quantity, which mean you need to be careful what you are going with the bullet, you want to put them on target not just spray them around, which is what LMG does.

Agreed, LMG accuracy is all over the place when improvise mounted on the go to provide fire support, but I am talking about the specific scenario on Pakistan's western border. We usually guard the fence there and show restraint and respect to International law by not engaging every suspected movement on the other side. So the terrorists have the luxury to pick the time and place of their fire raids. They try to creep up to our posts to surprise and swarm our troops there. Therefore I was suggesting if a manned LMG turret configuration, that is highly accurate and promptly trainable, can be custom built to be placed where it has vantage of the approaches , it will provide much needed support in case of these surprise fire raids.

 

[jhungary]

Agreed, LMG accuracy is all over the place when improvise mounted on the go to provide fire support, but I am talking about the specific scenario on Pakistan's western border. We usually guard the fence there and show restraint and respect to International law by not engaging every suspected movement on the other side. So the terrorists have the luxury to pick the time and place of their fire raids. They try to creep up to our posts to surprise and swarm our troops there. Therefore I was suggesting if a manned LMG turret configuration, that is highly accurate and promptly trainable, can be custom built to be placed where it has vantage of the approaches , it will provide much needed support in case of these surprise fire raids.

Well, that would be a tactical emplacement issue, I don't want to go in too deep because this is not really related to soldier individual loadout and it would be off topic.

Traditionally, in a defensive posture, you would set up your static defence with interlocking cross fire called "Kill Zone" where MG/LMG was used to pin down the advancing enemy inside that kill zone, so you can drop artillery or mortar on top of them (that's why when you watch Saving Private Ryan, Captain Miller keep saying "get off the beach" when they were landing at Normandy)

But then that wouldn't be as effective if you set up MG position excessively because each one of those are going to take into account of munition usage and the frequency of the Barrel change, You don't put a lot of ammo box in a MG emplacement, which mean that would have to constantly supplied, which mean you would have to have a person coming back and forth bringing you ammo, now, with each MG set up, you would have to draw people away from the defensive line just to do that, which mean you are going to have to thin out the line, and if you are against an overwhelming force, that's a very dangerous thing to do.

you have our respect. thanks for sharing your experiences.

internet gives a sense of anonymity and freedom to misbehave hate and its irresistible for many nameless nobodies don't engage with them they are weeded out on regular basis and never missed,

Nah........I am just an old soldier who probably rant way too much on anonymous forum. There are a lot more people who are more knowledgeable than me both in and out of this forum.

 

[Goritoes]

@RescueRanger @blain2 @PanzerKiel

This is the picture of SSG from old Zarb-e-Azb.

Red Circle ---- Look at their helmets, fits perfectly and even covers part of their ears.
Yellow Circle ---- Everyone of them wearing Protective Glasses, I bet it was for the same reasons I was discussing.
Blue Circle ---- Small/little but some sort of protection for abdomen area.

This is how SSG should gear up for Operations, from the looks its not that heavy. This exact Gear set could be used or Standardize in any open or close combat operations.

 

[PanzerKiel]

@RescueRanger @blain2 @PanzerKiel
View attachment 908899
This is the picture of SSG from old Rahe-e-Nijat.

Red Circle ---- Look at their helmets, fits perfectly and even covers part of their ears.
Yellow Circle ---- Everyone of them wearing Protective Glasses, I bet it was for the same reasons I was discussing.
Blue Circle ---- Small/little but some sort of protection for abdomen area.

This is how SSG should gear up for Operations, from the looks its not that heavy. This exact Gear set could be used or Standardize in any open or close combat operations.

Operation Zarb e Azb, 2014.

Rah e Nijat was in 2009.

 

[White privilege]

..... the frequency of the Barrel change, ........

Will/How much the barrel last longer if we are able to water cool it, like the Vickers , or use some other method of cooling ???

 

[jhungary]

Will/How much the barrel last longer if we are able to water cool it, like the Vickers , or use some other method of cooling ???

Most MG Nowadays are air-cooled, instead of trying to cool the barrel externally, you simply change the barrel after sustained fire, that way you lower the weight of the machinegun. Water-cooled MG does exist, it usually crew mounted.

Most people think the carry handle on a M249 is for carrying the weapon, that's actually the carry handle for quick change barrel (so you can take the barrel out while it's red hot and don't burn your hand). A M249 Barrel can sustain 10,000 rounds before it started affect the rifling inside the barrel, and the life of the barrel can sustain around 50,000 rounds before you need to replace it. However, if you put in a long burst, that barrel is not going to last more than 30 seconds before it melts, and this will happen....

So the standard procedure is for the Gunner or A-Gunner to carry 2 or 3 spare barrels, then change it after you expand 2 or 3 boxes (so 400-600 rounds) of your ammo and set the used barrel aside to let it cool down. Then swap it back after another 2 or 3 box of magazine.

 

[PakFactor]

Ukraine is a rather strange war. The Russian Army proved to be incompetent, Indian Army largely is far more professional and well organised.

For instance there is no NCO structure in the Russian Army whilst the Indian Army similar to Pakistan has a NCO structure.

Russian military leadership failed to capitalise on initial gains, failed in A2/AD once air dominance was achieved, their largely conscript army was of poor morale and refused to fight, literally abandoning expensive machines in farmers fields.

Comparing India to Russia would be an error on our part. One should never underestimate their enemy.

Good first post and read; I will add more to it soon.

However, regarding Russia, they failed in its combined arms approach and its Total War concept, whereas all national resources must be utilized to achieve the objective. So from day one, it was a failure when you sent 150,000 troops to fight against 800,000 well-trained military and territorial defense forces; and veterans who've been fighting the Russians last decade or so. On top of that, according to a Danish Intelligence Official, he could have won; however, from their intel, Putin was too involved in the war effort and throwing out his plans that the generals couldn't functionally do their job. So Russia is what we'll call a collective national failure.

@Signalian made a post about logistics, which I like as we often forget this role completely. But this conflict has exposed another defect in our thinking; I referenced it once or twice before as well that can make or break a nation's war effort.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

A lot of work has gone into bringing some level of kit standardization for fighting units. Some better than others.
But based upon the original title of this post the question to ask is load out.

There is no right answer for load out, yet the answer is very simple. It all depends on the parameters of the task.

Considerations from logistics, location, weather, # of days, task, enemy size, type of battle etc etc., all go towards the calculus of what the load ought to be.

Physical strength is very important. Ability to carry weight it very important. Not just from a load perspective but from other considerations as well.

The single biggest variable is ammo. When on patrols away from logistics in rugged country, ammo is the biggest consideration. Depending on the type/ferocity of engagement you'll be surprised how fast you cycle through ammo. The worst thing for a soldier is running out. Without lines to replenish it is important to carry as much as physically possible. Then nature of terrain and weather has a significant impact of the load. Ballistic gear is not always necessary. If the task is hit and run - then being light is the way. If task is to engage and destroy then load changes. Terrain and weather adds a level of variability. If terrain is flat with little cover then there is a different approach to locations with cover.

But there is one variable that is a constant and that is the physical strength and endurance of a soldier. Just jacking up and bulking up is not good. There needs to be a balance of endurance and strength. Here too PA has brought in especially during Kyani's time greater emphasis on endurance and fitness. Still a long way to go and hopefully the Army will keep sticking to and enhancing these programs. Over time our soldier will be sharper and more effective IA.

 

[jhungary]

A lot of work has gone into bringing some level of kit standardization for fighting units. Some better than others.
But based upon the original title of this post the question to ask is load out.

There is no right answer for load out, yet the answer is very simple. It all depends on the parameters of the task.

Considerations from logistics, location, weather, # of days, task, enemy size, type of battle etc etc., all go towards the calculus of what the load ought to be.

Physical strength is very important. Ability to carry weight it very important. Not just from a load perspective but from other considerations as well.

The single biggest variable is ammo. When on patrols away from logistics in rugged country, ammo is the biggest consideration. Depending on the type/ferocity of engagement you'll be surprised how fast you cycle through ammo. The worst thing for a soldier is running out. Without lines to replenish it is important to carry as much as physically possible. Then nature of terrain and weather has a significant impact of the load. Ballistic gear is not always necessary. If the task is hit and run - then being light is the way. If task is to engage and destroy then load changes. Terrain and weather adds a level of variability. If terrain is flat with little cover then there is a different approach to locations with cover.

But there is one variable that is a constant and that is the physical strength and endurance of a soldier. Just jacking up and bulking up is not good. There needs to be a balance of endurance and strength. Here too PA has brought in especially during Kyani's time greater emphasis on endurance and fitness. Still a long way to go and hopefully the Army will keep sticking to and enhancing these programs. Over time our soldier will be sharper and more effective IA.

Your post remind me of the first day of Ranger School. When the instructor said "Big Guy don't last"
I will let you figure out why...

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Your post remind me of the first day of Ranger School. When the instructor said "Big Guy don't last"
I will let you figure out why...

I know exactly why(s). LOL!!
Ranger school is a solid school. Congrats on attendance and hopefully you passed. In all honesty I like the US Army Rangers, because as a tactician Rangers will always give me more options for deployment given their training, broad skills and capabilities.

 

[jhungary]

I know exactly why(s). LOL!!
Ranger school is a solid school. Congrats on attendance and hopefully you passed. In all honesty I like the US Army Rangers, because as a tactician Rangers will always give me more options for deployment given their training, broad skills and capabilities.

Yeah, I did get the ranger tab. It was a while ago; I went to Ranger School in 2004. It was a different school back then.

On the other hand, I am not an Army Ranger (Not going to take credit for something I didn't do), you need to go thru Ranger selection (RASP), not Ranger school to get the scroll, I was planned to go to RASP after I rotate from Afghanistan in 2005, instead I got wounded in Afghanistan and got out upon my tour is finished.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Yeah, I did get the ranger tab. It was a while ago; I went to Ranger School in 2004. It was a different school back then.

On the other hand, I am not an Army Ranger (Not going to take credit for something I didn't do), you need to go thru Ranger selection (RASP), not Ranger school to get the scroll, I was planned to go to RASP after I rotate from Afghanistan in 2005, instead I got wounded in Afghanistan and got out upon my tour is finished.

Congrats on getting the badge. Agreed it was different around 2004 - infact I would say in some ways it was harsher back then and getting a badge in 2004 is a bigger accomplishment.

But Rangers school has improved in the classroom. The lessons learned over Afghanistan and Iraq have been well incorporated in the training and curriculum. That is where it has evolved for the better.

 

[jhungary]

Congrats on getting the badge. Agreed it was different around 2004 - infact I would say in some ways it was harsher back then and getting a badge in 2004 is a bigger accomplishment.

But Rangers school has improved in the classroom. The lessons learned over Afghanistan and Iraq have been well incorporated in the training and curriculum. That is where it has evolved for the better.

Thanks, well, I made a mistake wearing my Class A when I go back Stateside, someone stole my Ranger Tab on my ACU from my bag. I should have wear ACU instead because you can't take out the Ranger Tab from Class A, while you can because Ranger Tab on ACU is held on by Velcro...

But getting tabbed is not really a big deal like it was used to be. They have taken out a lot of practical things (either class/ go-no go tests) because they were perceived harsh and not necessary. But the final straw is that they allow female to complete the course with phase recycle rather than recycle thru the program. all 3 female graduates recycle thru phase (2 of them recycle phase 1, the other recycle phase 1 and 2) and that just the last straw......

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Thanks, well, I made a mistake wearing my Class A when I go back Stateside, someone stole my Ranger Tab on my ACU from my bag. I should have wear ACU instead because you can't take out the Ranger Tab from Class A, while you can because Ranger Tab on ACU is held on by Velcro...

But getting tabbed is not really a big deal like it was used to be. They have taken out a lot of practical things (either class/ go-no go tests) because they were perceived harsh and not necessary. But the final straw is that they allow female to complete the course with phase recycle rather than recycle thru the program. all 3 female graduates recycle thru phase (2 of them recycle phase 1, the other recycle phase 1 and 2) and that just the last straw......

There is a level of PC that is "fubar'ing" everything. Mil is a tough job, requires toughness, physical and mental. The PC inclination combined with the belief that tech can normalize genders will hurt both genders over the long run.