When Islamic atheism thrived

[v9s]

Its something that i have talked over n over again - i keep meeting peoples of your belief - but trust me - everytime they are satisifed with my answer but fail to answer my questions

Same here.

 

[Shattered]

Razi seems to have ego issues here.

The Quran has NO CONTRADICTIONS. Show me any contradiction and i'll prove you wrong.

acording to the verses

7:54
10:3
11:7

The earth and the heavens was created in 6 days

where as acording to the verse "41:9" the earth was created in 2 days.
and acording to the verse 41:10 earth was norishmented in 4 days.
and then acording to the the verse 41:12 the heaven was created in 2 days.

Thus proving that the earth and heavens were created in 8 days where as the previous 3 verses cleary state that the earth and heavens were created in 6 days.

acording to the verses

22:47 and 32:5 a day of god is equal to one thousand years on earth.

but acording to the verse 7:04 a day of god equals to fifty thousand years on earth.

If you want more i can post em once i wake up from my sleep.

Note: evrey verse i posted had the meaning i stated if you don't belive me please read your quran and check those verses or you can find the translation of em on google.

Anyways i didn't mean to offend anyone the only reason i posted these is cause "The Quran has NO CONTRADICTIONS. Show me any contradiction and i'll prove you wrong.".

Good luck witht that i got many more where that came from =P.

Edit: Acctuly i won't post any more relegious stuff here since i could be going against the fourm rules if you wanna debate or anything pm kbai.

 

[MilesTogo]

For God Sake peoples,

Do not discuss Religion in this forum. It doesn't look good when you so-called scholars uttering your Bullshit without any knowledge of Islam

Just live in your own dreams of fantasies - do not try to portray Islam as per your own wishes

Have some respect of God - Have some Fear of God - Have some fear of God please

Why does one have to fear god? God could just appear or send someone again and clear the confusion.

 

[Hyde]

Why does one have to fear god? God could just appear or send someone again and clear the confusion.

The existance of God has been challenging since the creation and God has sent messengers to guide peoples. Some peoples refused to accept god saying if Allah wanted he could have sent down an angels - why did he send a Prophet who sits among us and talks like us and eat like us.

Allah says it is not the way of God. He chose the peoples among you and bless his mercy and reward him with Prophethood. Allah does not need to prove anything - So why he needs to come down on earth? It is the human who needs the guidance and Allah is willing to guide those who are willing to take it.

Allah sent messengers/Prophets to guide the peoples and now he has stopped the Prophethood however there is still a chain of pious peoples who keep preaching Good and stand against the evil.

It is not the way we human wants - it is the way how Allah wants

 

[v9s]

acording to the verses

7:54
10:3
11:7

The earth and the heavens was created in 6 days

where as acording to the verse "41:9" the earth was created in 2 days.
and acording to the verse 41:10 earth was norishmented in 4 days.
and then acording to the the verse 41:12 the heaven was created in 2 days.

Thus proving that the earth and heavens were created in 8 days where as the previous 3 verses cleary state that the earth and heavens were created in 6 days.

acording to the verses

22:47 and 32:5 a day of god is equal to one thousand years on earth.

but acording to the verse 7:04 a day of god equals to fifty thousand years on earth.

If you want more i can post em once i wake up from my sleep.

Note: evrey verse i posted had the meaning i stated if you don't belive me please read your quran and check those verses or you can find the translation of em on google.

Anyways i didn't mean to offend anyone the only reason i posted these is cause "The Quran has NO CONTRADICTIONS. Show me any contradiction and i'll prove you wrong.".

Good luck witht that i got many more where that came from =P.

Edit: Acctuly i won't post any more relegious stuff here since i could be going against the fourm rules if you wanna debate or anything pm kbai.

To your first query:
Your confusion stems from a wrong interpretation of 41:9-12 , these verses read:

"Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."

He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.

Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient." 41:9-12

What these verses are saying is that the physical universe (the word earth is used in the Quran either to mean the planet earth, or as in this case to represent the physical universe) was created in two days and that the setting up of all the provisions necessary for life was completed inside four days. To put it in different words, the physical universe was created and its provisions set up inside four days.

Your error is that you added 2 plus 4 , whereas the wording of the verse indicates that the four days include the two days of its creation.

Then we are told that the completion of the creation of all seven universes (where our physical universe is the innermost) required two extra days, for a total of six days.

Moreover, it must be noted that the "days" of creation are only used as a yardstick, they do not mean 24 earthly hours.

To your second query:

It may be too much to expect from you of the claim to understand that the Quran speaks of the theory of 'Time Dilation' which was to be confirmed by Einstein 13 centuries after the revelation of the Quran.

Apart from the fact that these verses speak of different events, the truly amazing observation here is that the Quran speaks of a scientific theory that was only to be known after Einstein put forward his theory of relativity in 1905.

First let us read the three verses refered to:

"………. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your years." 22:47

"All matters are controlled by Him from the heaven to the earth. To Him, the day is equivalent to one thousand of your years." 32:5

"The angels, with their reports, climb to Him in a day that equals fifty thousand years." 70:4

Note that only the first two of these verses speak of a day relative to God (1000 years of our count) .... However, the third verse does not speak of a day relative to God, therefore before demonstrating the scientific significance of these verses, it must be said that there is no contradiction between the first two verses on one hand and the third verse on the other hand.

Scientific significance:

The theory of relativity states that since we live in a space-time universe there is no such thing as 'absolute time'. What relativity tells us is that time, measured in our frame of reference (our point of view), runs at a different speed from time in another frame of reference.

This phenomenon is called 'Time Dilation'. The equation which predicts this 'stretching' of time is:

T = t divided by the square root of [ 1 - (V x V)divided by (C x C) ]

t = length of a time interval for us

T = length of a time interval for another frame of reference.

V = velocity of other frame of reference

C = speed of light (approx. 300,000 km/second)

The mathematics of relativity says that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. If a body travels faster than the speed of light ( where V is greater than C ) we would get a negative value for the section marked between the [ ], but since there is no square root for a negative value, the equation cannot accept speeds greater than the speed of light.

However, it has been discovered that some particles actually travel faster than light. These are called 'tachyons'. They cannot travel at the speed of light, only faster.

The amazing notation of these Quranic verses, besides confirming the theory of 'Time Dilation', is that they confirm the fact that if there is such frames of reference where one day is equal to a thousand years of our count, and even fifty thousand years of our count, they must be traveling at speeds many times faster than the speed of light.

These frames of reference cannot be physical, and that is because according to the relativity equations the speed of light is the limiting factor in our physical world.

 

[Pride]

the writer of this topic is doing the same aint it??? you have every right to find out answers regarding any religion, but you have to ask it from someone who has some authority over it, in Islam a scholar is a person whom we call 'mufti' that guy puts up around 16 years of studies and has way more knowledge then an average muslim, so go up to him and if he aint able to satisfy you then you have a reason to point fingers...

but tell me honestly she has put up those questions on a forum, where the majority doesnt have sound knowledge of Islam, dont you think she would go through a proper channel if searching for the answer??

its same like, you claim you can prove theory of relativity wrong, but rather then going to a professor you are putting up your points in front of some high school guys n looking for answer!!!

Yes buddy.. we are on the same page. I always said the terrorism is dangerous but more dangerous is "Intellectual Terrorism". These intellectual people's always try to twist faith always in wrong direction and hence people get confused. Few scientists in the world still thinks theory of relativity is wrong and hence they are trying hard to prove it wrong the problems is people with same mindset join them and create nuisance for general audience.

 

[Hyde]

Religious discussion

MODS attention required

 

[Mahrukh Muzafar]

to me if someone wants to know islam and the presence of Allah he or she should read either complete quran if he or she can understand arabic language or read its complete translation in the language he or she is superior in. quran is a complete divine answer for all our questions and confusions.

 

[Mahrukh Muzafar]

btw a very good and serious article .

 

[VrSoLdIeRs]

Yes buddy.. we are on the same page. I always said the terrorism is dangerous but more dangerous is "Intellectual Terrorism". These intellectual people's always try to twist faith always in wrong direction and hence people get confused. Few scientists in the world still thinks theory of relativity is wrong and hence they are trying hard to prove it wrong the problems is people with same mindset join them and create nuisance for general audience.

thats the point, if i have an objection i go to a proper society (one which has resources and knowledge) and discuss it there, i wont step out in the street and start asking questions would i?

you would find thousand of anti islam anti christianity anti hinduism anti atheism websites filled with loads n loads of material but does anyone actually bother to go to someone and discuss, we just upload it on the net n start copy pasting!!!!

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

to me if someone wants to know islam and the presence of Allah he or she should read either complete quran if he or she can understand arabic language or read its complete translation in the language he or she is superior in. quran is a complete divine answer for all our questions and confusions.

not the translation sis, the tafseer as well!!!!

 

[Hyde]

to me if someone wants to know islam and the presence of Allah he or she should read either complete quran if he or she can understand arabic language or read its complete translation in the language he or she is superior in. quran is a complete divine answer for all our questions and confusions.

so true Mahrukh Jee.......... i bet 95% of the members has not read anything about Quran (translation of the Quran) and debating like Scholars

Bhai pehle parho to sahi ke what Allah says in the Holy Qur'an before bashing the scholars. If you are Muslim, first take the guidance from the Qur'an before opening your big mouth

 

[Paksindhi]

Although many of those thinkers, according to Badawi, did not attempt to disprove the existence of God, they lashed out against the notion of prophethood and argued against the privileged position occupied by the Prophet Muhammad and his followers

This statment above should be enough to tell story of these free thinking scholar's, where they stand.

May GOD protect us from these scholar's midevil or current evil. EmO

 

[syntax_error]

You know what the problem is ....
ppl everywhere think they know everything there is to know bout their religion when actually they may not grasp even one iota of the actual meaning... and they try to impose their opinion on the people around them ...everybody doing this is bound to create a hell lot of friction ....... and thus all the problem .....

Just keep your interpretation of your belief and religion to yourself and follow it religiously!!!!!!

I believe that is also what EMO was trying to say (too some extent i believe )

 

[Kabir Panthi]

ppl everywhere think they know everything there is to know bout their religion when actually they may not grasp even one iota of the actual meaning... and they try to impose their opinion on the people around them ...

Who are you to say whether what these people have grasped is or is not the "actual meaning".

Anyway, isn't the very term "Islamic atheism" a contradiction?

 

[Durran3]

Excellent Article Emo-Girl although the title is extremely oxymoronic (is that a word?)

I would highly recommend you study the concept of Hellenization in Religion as well as watch an absolutely fantastic three part Documentary by Jonathan Miller which was aired on BBC four called A History of Disbelief.

Although it does contain a few boring elements, its a highly intellectual film

Atheism: Jonathan Miller's Brief History of Disbelief - Shadows of Doubt

Atheism: Jonathan Miller's Brief History of Disbelief - Shadows of Doubt

Atheism: Jonathan Miller's Brief History of Disbelief - Shadows of Doubt