When INS Vikrant (R11) gave nightmare to Pakistan's Navy!

[Black Eagle 90]

Because of Early warning system we cannot hide the aircraft carrier battle group even we are around 500km away from karachi they will be able to locate and attack it from different platform like fighter and submarine .

1)Saab 2000 AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control)
From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles),

2)ZDK-03: A variant designed specifically for export to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Consists of a Chinese AESA radar mounted on the Y-8F600 platform.[14] The radar is reported to have a greater range than that of the PAF's Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C radar[15] and the aircraft incorporates open architecture electronics to make future upgrades easier to implement.[16] Delivery of the first aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force was expected by the end of 2010.[15] The first aircraft was reported to have been delivered in November 2011 by Pakistani media.

3)P-3C : The AN/APS-137B(V)5 Radar is capable of multimode operation to provide periscope and small target detection, navigation, weather avoidance, long range surface search and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and ISAR imaging modes. SAR provides detection, identification, and classification capability of stationary targets. ISAR provides detection, classification, and tracking capability against surface and surfaced submarine targets. The AN/APS-137B(V)5 ISAR provides range, bearing, and positional data on all selected targets, and provides medium or high resolution images for display and recording.
The EP-2060 Pulse Analyzer works in conjunction with the AN/ALR-66C(V)3 to detect, direction find, quantify, process, and display electromagnetic signals emitted by land, ship, and airborne radar systems.

Now with these platform are at enemy disposal how can a aircraft carrier be safe around 500km ?

I think PN might need just money from GoP to build some types of Subamrines in a JV with Germany and can involve KSA, Libya and Algeria to:
Rescue Subamrines
110-160 Tons Special Forces Submarines(will be carried by auxillary tankers)
750 Tons Coastal SSKs
1500 Tons SSKs
3000 Tons SSKs

 

[ejaz007]

It was the warship, on which dozens of aircrafts could take off simultaneously and helicopters could land.

This line alone speaks about the authors knowledge of the matter he/she is writing about.

If INS Vikrant could launch dozens of planes in 60's I hope they have improved that capability substantially in twenty first century.

 

[Gentelman]

so what if it detects mig29k ? mig's are any way is there for combat, and protect surface ships and it can hold on against jf17. as for directing submarines towards the rough location, these submarines must go through, Indian submarines,frigates and destroyers, anti submarines helicopters,p8i, etc to reach to carrier.

yeah and submarine is equipped with a bigggggg sword which will cut the AC after reaching near the aircraft carrier……
what is this?? 1800s??
please bro
why the hell sub needs to go near the AC??
the subs are equipped with torpeedos and Cruise Missiles and once Babur(SLCM) is tested then it can be fired even from Karachi port if it is within 700km range……

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

yeah and submarine is equipped with a bigggggg sword which will cut the AC after reaching near the aircraft carrier…… what is this?? 1800s?? please bro why the hell sub needs to go near the AC?? the subs are equipped with torpeedos and Cruise Missiles and once Babur(SLCM) is tested then it can be fired even from Karachi port if it is within 700km range……

reaching near carrier means reaching near " weapon range", before it reach weapon range, it has to go evade, or engage numerous other CBG platforms, weapons, and systems. Submarine launched Babur is not anywhere near induction, so talk about systems which are under operational induction. Long range missile attacks are effective against fixed targets, they won't work well against moving targets when you don't have target information and just relaying on intriguel, gps, guidance. to fire babur *you have to detect the carrier first,then only you can fire the missile, just blindly firing the missile to the CBG Area and hoping the missile will acquire target by itself is hoping against hopes,by the time babur reaches the area carrier will be kilometers away from the location.

 

[Super Falcon]

well we dont need to depend on one anti ship long range missile we need to have plan B and C also to counter indians we need to equip well atleast

 

[mughaljee]

ISI behind this ?

 

[SirHatesALot]

ISI behind this ?

You are dreaming too much.

 

[Mitro]

Once the Awacs locate the rough location of air craft carrier PN and PAF will take these steps
1)Direct submarine towards the battle group
2)surface ship also
3)18 Fighter Aircraft like F-16 to take care of Mig29
4)18 fighter Aircraft like mirage and JF-17 to attack the battle group from a distance of more then 100 km [avoiding Anti Aircraft missile system] and attack with mixed missile like CM400AKG and C803 cruise missile in 30 - 40 .
5)Bye - Bye R.P.I carrier is lost . Losing aircraft carrier with around 5000 - 6000 personal will be devastating

Its not 1965 and 1971 any more Pakistan has limited resources but all right kind to counter Indian weapon system .

so what if it detects mig29k ? mig's are any way is there for combat, and protect surface ships and it can hold on against jf17. as for directing submarines towards the rough location, these submarines must go through, Indian submarines,frigates and destroyers, anti submarines helicopters,p8i, etc to reach to carrier.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Once the Awacs locate the rough location of air craft carrier PN and PAF will take these steps 1)Direct submarine towards the battle group 2)surface ship also

Check my reply to gentleman..and don't forget that we too have other air assets like jaguar in large numbers for taking care of surface ships as well as ground targets.

3)18 Fighter Aircraft like F-16 to take care of Mig29

I doubt Paf can bring in f16 since it has to take on iaf mig 29, mirage, and mki's,if you can draw some then we can also do the same with mki,even more in numbers.

4)18 fighter Aircraft like mirage and JF-17 to attack the battle group from a distance of more then 100 km [avoiding Anti Aircraft missile system] and attack with mixed missile like CM400AKG and C803 cruise missile in 30 - 40 .

An assortment of mig and mki,barak, etc can defend any threat coming from the sky, they will be the first one tackling you before you reach to the CBG, we sure will take some damage and loses but not to the level of loosing aircraft carrier.

5)Bye - Bye R.P.I carrier is lost . Losing aircraft carrier with around 5000 - 6000 personal will be devastating * * Its not 1965 and 1971 any more Pakistan has limited resources but all right kind to counter Indian weapon system .

* Sweet dreams.

 

[Mitro]

According to you indian battle group consist of which platform .

How many submarine ?
how many anti-submarine destroyers ?
How many anti-air destroyers ?
How many stealth frigate in forward patrol ?
How many supply ship ?

Check my reply to gentleman..and don't forget that we too have other air assets like jaguar in large numbers for taking care of surface ships as well as ground targets. I doubt Paf can bring in f16 since it has to take on iaf mig 29, mirage, and mki's,if you can draw some then we can also do the same with mki,even more in numbers. An assortment of mig and mki,barak, etc can defend any threat coming from the sky, they will be the first one tackling you before you reach to the CBG, we sure will take some damage and loses but not to the level of loosing aircraft carrier. * Sweet dreams.

 

[Gentelman]

reaching near carrier means reaching near " weapon range", before it reach weapon range, it has to go evade, or engage numerous other CBG platforms, weapons, and systems. Submarine launched Babur is not anywhere near induction, so talk about systems which are under operational induction. Long range missile attacks are effective against fixed targets, they won't work well against moving targets when you don't have target information and just relaying on intriguel, gps, guidance. to fire babur *you have to detect the carrier first,then only you can fire the missile, just blindly firing the missile to the CBG Area and hoping the missile will acquire target by itself is hoping against hopes,by the time babur reaches the area carrier will be kilometers away from the location.

Come on Man I am messing with you……
Babur is for land based target and it would act as nuclear detterance by sea and who knows if it is even induced…
Well the best protection to AC is just given by US which is rqual to your all surface fleet……
I hope you got that…
Well I am happy with this AC induction in IN as this will force GOP to alloct more funds to PN……
well the PN subs have great record of travelling undetectably in Indian waters soo I am hopeful if ever we have to face the misery of war…

 

[Thorough Pro]

Don't know about nightmares to PN, however IN itself seems to be suffering from its own nightmares these days, by the way is IN going to re-surface the sunk sub or put a tombstone on it right there in the dock?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

According to you indian battle group consist of which platform . * How many submarine ? how many *anti-submarine destroyers ? How many anti-air destroyers ? How many stealth frigate in forward patrol ? How many supply ship ?

Should be a pair of each(7-9) ships Or even more as per threat perception and strategies. *

 

[Mav3rick]

who says carrier can't operate from 500 km distance ?
if US navy can operate their CBG From 370km distance with comparatively short legged super hornets, then Indian can afford to stay further away with greater range capable mig29k.jf17 has to come near 130km to target the carrier, your Erieye has to come 350km near the carrier to provide target info, none of this happening till you neutralize mig 29k and numerous over air defence systems in CBG. check the link for my detailed reply on another debate regarding the same.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...akg-tough-job-indian-navy-31.html#post4398140
as for vikranth, new vikrant will be taking part in action when it's ready after four years, tell them adjust with vikramaditya which is going to be ready soon.

You are most likely ignoring the fact that radar ranges you have mentioned are for Jet sized targets and the CBG may be detected even beyond 500km's by AEWACS.

I have been reading a lot of nonsense by Indian on 1971 blockade. Could the blockade have ever materialized had PNS Ghazi not been sunk by her own mine? I mean could the blockade have materialized had PN access to a working sub?

 

[The Deterrent]

Submarine launched Babur is not anywhere near induction, so talk about systems which are under operational induction.

Shouldn't we apply the same logic to INS Vikrant and wait till 2020 when it is "inducted" and "operational" ?