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Whats Wrong with ISPR Press release emphasizing "BETTER GOVERNANCE" from Political Leadership

As long as the media and public are allowed the same standards for criticisms of the military over their failures and illegal acts. Are you willing to accept that? Fair is fair, right?



Sirjee, the Army has not left the civilians in any condition to remain effective any more. Adhmua ghadha kia samaan uthaye gaa?
Sir Ji few department still civilian having:p: like, Fianance, Internal Security( Army doing in Fata or Karachi ) remain whole Pakistan under civilian government. This " D0 " more about financial corruption action plan.
 
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Sir Ji few department still civilian having:p: like, Fianance, Internal Security( Army doing in Fata or Karachi ) remain whole Pakistan under civilian government. This " D0 " more about financial corruption action plan.

If you have the time, I will suggest you read this:

Eight Good People
 
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Sir, the Army is not much better than your words above, either, to be fair, to the State. However, their loyalty and dedication to each other is just about perfect and keeps the Army above the State in this regard.
Now you are going forth against Army. Later it will be back
 
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I want to appreciate the wisdom here....
Dharna was started when military was a month into zarb e azb....

Dharna created perfect terror oppertunity within heart of islamabad...which tali dogs failed to materialize
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U think military actually was behind it...
Well done ...

And military will never arrest any one on political request... its nit how buissmess is done in pk....may be syria or iraq yes

Clearly you don't know how behind scene works out. Given the history of Pakistan army, not first time Pakistan army has pulled this trick and won't be last time.

What happened during Azadi march was treason on many accounts. Only in Pakistan they get away whereas anarchy and its anarchism aren't tolerated else where. If this happened under Pakistan army, they would have been dealt immediately.

Since it was PMLN which was prevented from taking actions against anarchy and its anarchism because of pre-planned power-sharing agreement to ensure Azadi march continued for the whole month uninterrupted and set PMLN for failure, cue power-sharing agreement.

Right now, it is all Pakistan army ruling Pakistan unconditionally as whole. PMLN no longer enjoy its influence on governing affairs in Pakistan.

PMLN could have easily resigned during Azadhi march and brought this affairs to the whole world, and they would have sided with PMLN. For the same reasons why Pakistan army backed out from its plan to takeover and instead resorted to power-sharing to restrict PMLN into dummy. I guess PMLN also didn't want economic sanction imposed on Pakistan economy either. Say what you want about PMLN, but PMLN chose to look for the bigger picture unlike Pakistan army given their history of takeover and their history with PMLN.
 
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Clearly you don't know how behind scene works out. Given the history of Pakistan army, not first time Pakistan army has pulled this trick and won't be last time.

What happened during Azadi march was treason on many accounts. Only in Pakistan they get away whereas anarchy and its anarchism aren't tolerated else where. If this happened under Pakistan army, they would have been dealt immediately.

Since it was PMLN which was prevented from taking actions against anarchy and its anarchism because of pre-planned power-sharing agreement to ensure Azadi march continued for the whole month uninterrupted and set PMLN for failure, cue power-sharing agreement.

Right now, it is all Pakistan army ruling Pakistan unconditionally as whole. PMLN no longer enjoy its influence on governing affairs in Pakistan.

PMLN could have easily resigned during Azadhi march and brought this affairs to the whole world, and they would have sided with PMLN. For the same reasons why Pakistan army backed out from its plan to takeover and instead resorted to power-sharing to restrict PMLN into dummy. I guess PMLN also didn't want economic sanction imposed on Pakistan economy either. Say what you want about PMLN, but PMLN chose to look for the bigger picture unlike Pakistan army given their history of takeover and their history with PMLN.

Sir, NS cannot be unaware of how things work. After all, he worked with General Zia to launch his political career as a tool of the military. His foundations mean he cannot be allowed to grow too big for his britches, ever, by his past creators and present handlers.
 
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In short, Pakistan army is. Instead of arresting dharna holder for treason, they allowed dharna for the whole month damaging Pakistan economy totaling more than 500 billion rupees damaged. The whole point of restricting PMLN to dummy to make PMLN look bad in term of governing affairs.
If you're going to argue for civilian supremacy, keep in mind that the Army could not arrest politicians for holding rallies - that's the responsibility of the police. And as I pointed out in my previous post, the issue did not even have to get to the point of dharna's if that imbecile ganja Prime Minister had done the sensible thing and agreed to IK's demands for a neutral investigation into rigging allegations.

The facts pretty clearly point to this being a total (and typical) PMLN screw-up.
Any kid can tell that PMLN is being set up to fail so Pakistan army can use the excuse to interfere and demand more powers over democracy and Pakistan as whole hence power-sharing agreement. Sometimes, reading between the lines can go the long way. :D
Again - give me tangible examples of restrictions being put in the way of the PMLN (after the Dharna, so you can't use that tired old excuse again) from performing?
Thank to USA and its warning to impose economic sanction on Pakistan, Pakistan army backed out in last min during Azadi march. Now Pakistan army is using other tactics, and ever since power-sharing agreement thank to Azadi march, Pakistan army can toy with Pakistan and PMLN for fun, and yet Pakistan army can get away easily without accountability.
That's just another nonsensical conspiracy theory to provide an excuse for Ganja's stupidity and failures that led to the Azadi March in the first place. The Army never had any intentions of stepping into the Azadi march, the Azadi march itself was the result of Ganja's stupidity and refusal to agree to an independent investigation into rigging allegations. The Army chose to stay neutral and sensibly urged restraint against violence by either party, as it should have. This was primarily a police matter and something that should have been resolved politically by good faith negotiations between the different parties, which is eventually, after a lot of chaos, what Ganja finally chose to do.

As long as the media and public are allowed the same standards for criticisms of the military over their failures and illegal acts. Are you willing to accept that? Fair is fair, right?
Absolutely. For example, the results of investigations into terrorist attacks on military installations should be made public, as should the broad details of any related court martial proceedings. While specific details of military processes and procedures don't have to be released, details of what failed (failures need to be addressed in any case) and the identities of those involved and the punishment handed out to them should be made public.

Military run welfare organizations such as the Fauji Foundation should be legally required to undergo independent audits and the income, benefits and tax records of military officers above the ranks of brigadier made public, along with all information related to how those benefits are paid for.
 
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Absolutely. For example, the results of investigations into terrorist attacks on military installations should be made public, as should the broad details of any related court martial proceedings. While specific details of military processes and procedures don't have to be released, details of what failed (failures need to be addressed in any case) and the identities of those involved and the punishment handed out to them should be made public.

Military run welfare organizations such as the Fauji Foundation should be legally required to undergo independent audits and the income, benefits and tax records of military officers above the ranks of brigadier made public, along with all information related to how those benefits are paid for.

The funny thing is that whenever anyone wishes to highlight any or all of those, thy are shut down. Noble words indeed, as long as they are not translated into any meaningful action. Lip service, it is called, I think.

I am done with this thread. See ya around PDF, guys. Over and out!
 
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The funny thing is that whenever anyone wishes to highlight any or all of those, thy are shut down. Noble words indeed, as long as they are not translated into any meaningful action. Lip service, it is called, I think.
As is the case with criticism of the elected government - public and media discourse and criticism must occur for institutions to evolve over time. Much as we can't expect instant chance in civilian institutions, we can't expect instant change in the military either - but that shouldn't stop public and media discourse and criticism regarding the failures and lack of transparency (where applicable) in both.
 
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Who ever offered was at fault...did it to stay in power
Who ever accepted was at fault....did so to come into power....

U and me pay the price
No no, if it wasn't offered, then there wouldn't be zardari or nawaz around today.
 
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Sir, NS cannot be unaware of how things work. After all, he worked with General Zia to launch his political career as a tool of the military. His foundations mean he cannot be allowed to grow too big for his britches, ever, by his past creators and present handlers.

It has nothing to do with NS awareness or lack of it for that matter. Nothing trumps the power of Pakistan army, at least in Pakistan. That's why those democratic political leaders have no choice but to play along just to prolong their political careers.

If you're going to argue for civilian supremacy, keep in mind that the Army could not arrest politicians for holding rallies - that's the responsibility of the police. And as I pointed out in my previous post, the issue did not even have to get to the point of dharna's if that imbecile ganja Prime Minister had done the sensible thing and agreed to IK's demands for a neutral investigation into rigging allegations.

The facts pretty clearly point to this being a total (and typical) PMLN screw-up.


Or PMLN is being set up for failure as my previous posts in this thread earlier may have escaped your attention earlier.

Pakistani political leaders have been arrested in the past including Nawaz Sharif who barely made it alive thank to Saudi Kindgom after Musharraf took over and installed Marshall Law over Democracy illegally.

Not a single General of Pakistan army has been arrested or jailed for taking over and installing Marshall Law illegally. They can do anything, blame it on political leaders and get away without accountability.

General Raheel is trying to do the same thing here. He forced Nawaz Sharif to be dummy prior to power-sharing agreement, and now setting him to fail to ensure he is paraded like failure, therefore the justifiable of executing future planned will be unfolded likely soon judging by the trend of Pakistan army. Wait and watch.
 
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Every once and a while the Army has to knock some sense into these bastards in the NA. They said nothing wrong.

Nothing's better than seeing these bastards in the NA getting a twist from the army.
 
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I ask you again,respected sir that why he wasn't allowed to land on ground?He and other important officers were Pakistan's asset and no way on earth does the president or prime minister of Pakistan holds the right to let army chief to flank like that,especially when they were only left for fuel for seven minutes damn it,what is so difficult,am I talking to you in Chinese,Japanese or sindhi?
Posting up a random pic,posting negative remarks against army,that is too immature and I wasn't expecting it from a person of as good calibre as you sir.
You truly disappointed me today.
Criticism is good but it must be only done when needed.

regards

I am sorry to have disappointed you, Sir, but I hope that by now you have calmed down enough to be able to understand the point of view that I have expressed in this thread and its importance. It takes courage to speak out the truth. If you still have any anger or confusion, we can take it up via PM or my profile page. Thanks.
 
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I am sorry to have disappointed you, Sir, but I hope that by now you have calmed down enough to be able to understand the point of view that I have expressed in this thread and its importance. It takes courage to speak out the truth. If you still have any anger or confusion, we can take it up via PM or my profile page. Thanks.

I wasn't angry,nor am I at you sir.Since,you cannot hear my voice,but rather than that,you can only read my words..therefore,you were unable to determine as if I was angry or not.On contrary to that,I was more cheeky,rather than angry.
Ofcourse,one needs courage to speak up the truth.However,we need to understand things completely and should, correlate them with each other.Sometimes,things aren't as simple as they appear.Sometimes,we need to make up adjustments under harsh and unfavorable conditions.Sometimes,decisions are just made to encounter one major issue,where as without considering dire consequences or outcome on the other one,with hope that they shall be circumvented as well.

regards
 
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