Dear Sir u have given the young poster a befitting reply and ur reply has got the toughness of American Cowboy culture. However perhaps poster was trying to explain benefits of getting TFX over J31.
To me if u do not object the J31 is present for PAF and TFX is the future. We need both. Many have commented here that J31 shall be availble in time frame of 2021-24 but facts show that the jet is ready for production and all improvements have been done. Now the ball is in PAF court, when they will order. I believe that if jets are ordered before end of 2017 the deliveries shall start by 2019. PAF should realize the threats and go for it.
We should start to induct J31 with start of Rafael deliveries to IAF as so far honestly we do not have any modern jet which can challenge Rafael as I believe that once Rafael deliveries are started then Super Skhoi project will take off. Then in medium to long term either f16 block 70 or Grippen NG shall be also there.
We should have at that time sufficient number of JF17-Block 3, up graded previous JF17s and J31 to counter new threats.
For TFX the doubts are still there as due to Turkey's tilt to wards religion the EU and West has started to sabotage their projects especially related to areas where they are still not self sufficient further chances of any internal turmoil in Turkey are still there. May be sane move shall be to go for indigenous next generation fighter jet with the help of Turkey, China and for some tech we may go for SA help.
Hi,
J-31 is being designed as a multi role aircraft on the request of PAF, where as the J-20 is an air superiority fighter aircraft specific for China. However it is too early in the day to suggest what future hold for both these aircraft. Which ever company come ahead in the Naval variant would be selected by the Chinese armed forces.
Over the years both threads on development of J-31 and J-20 many things have been stated regarding mutual systems and technological achievements, which have been used on both aircraft. This is some what similar to the American approach like we have seen over the past in cases F-22 and YF-23 then F-35 and Boeing-X-32. Unlike the US policies of not offering the failed aircraft as an export example to other countries China offered the J-31.
TFX on the other hand is an ambitious project which was set out with one goal in mind Air Superiority. Three designs were were proposed two multi-engine and one single-engine.
The design that is selected is a twin engine one. TFX is supposed to replace F-16's of the TuAF where as F-35 will replace the F-4.
Now lets return tho PAF and see where it stands.
Currently it is undergoing replacement of F-7s. These aircraft are being replaced by JF-17's however PAF had also planed to procure more old F-16's and upgrade them to replace some F-7's and Mirage III aircraft. However F-16's are no more an option.
Now there are some options available to PAF.
1) JF-17 Block 3 is procured not by 50 aircraft but 100.
2) JF-17 B is added not as Trainer but as a strike aircraft. (considering its limited fuel Deep strike role would be shifted to F-16's)
3) 50 JF-17 Block 1 and 50 Block 2 are upgraded to Block 3
This would give PAF 250-300 JF-17's and aprox 150 mix of F-16, Mirage V & F-7PG. A decent strength.
Now looking at 2030 and beyond PAF options:
1) JF-17 Stealth Variant based on TFX single engine design with a western engine.
2) 100-150 TFX Air Superiority version of the TuAF to replace F-16's Mirages and F7PG.
3) 100-150 F-35 from USA (Pakistan's economy would have grown and sales possible - Highly unlikely because it will undermine twin engine Air Superiority fighter aircraft)
4) 100-150 J-31 to replace F-16, Mirage and F7PG (Highly unlikely- As this will put PAF once again in similar shoes of 1965)
Hi,
You already gave the answer---the J31 is almost ready for production---the TFX---years away---10-15 years.
There are no hurdles in getting the J31---with the TFX---you never know what could come up---.
We need both the JF17 BLK3 and J31 programs running in parallel.
Hi,
The need for an air superiority fighter aircraft has always been there in PAF since the grounding of F-104's.
J-31 can fulfill that role but in limited numbers hence no need for production line, however if PAF considers replacing some of the F-7s and later F-7PGs then the numbers can be enough for production facility.
Limitation
The limitations will be USA offering the F-35 or the Japanese Stealth Fighter to India on an immediate basis cutting off any future F-35's or TFX sales to Pakistan.
Hi,
I want to add something else---.
The Paf has been the most un-focussed direction less organization that I have ever seen. It is absolutely pathetic to the level of disgusting when it comes to current planning---future planning and procurement---fall back planning and options.
Now when you see the results of this organization---it looks like this company is sawing off the trunk that it is sitting on---or the nation is sitting on---.
If I would have asked my enemy to procure something for me---they would have done a better job---.
And there will be those who will say nay to what I am stating---but that is the truth---.
Paf---needs to change its game plan----it needs to focus on one and only one 5th gen future aircraft---and that is the J31---for now---. The current aircraft being the BLK 3 JF 17 and another 4.5 gen aircraft---.
Too many option create problems---make you become un-decisive---vested / bribed interests come into the picture---like TFX project would bribe someone in the Paf to hold onto the J31 and wait for the TFX and things like that---.
Our problem has been a now problem---and we have been deceived by the pak air force for 30 years now---.
Hi,
Please read my reply above Limitation.
Our problem for the past 50 yrs been a now problem...F-16's only came due to USSR knocking on the door steps. They were stopped as soon as USSR decided to leave. Till today the contract has not been fulfilled.
After 9/11 US policy shifted but it could not over rule senate. The arms embargo was still there. Today there is no arms embargo but the fear of one looms. This is why Pakistan can not trust anyone. The fear of being stabbed at the back will remain till the time we do not fulfill this...
the only c0ck up i have seen is not going for the mk2 as an extension to the rose program.
not even a strike fighter is required as the mmk2 would have had a decent load and range.
Hi,
You have brought up an interesting question. Mirage 2000 are good against F-16's as demonstrated by both the Greek Air force and Turkish Air force. You can not compare ROSE program to that of adding a new platform. PAF has been operating the Mirage III and V's for the past 50 years and has potentially made them almost equal to M2k's by updating them.
For one to understand why PAF decided to upgrade rather then replace them is to be asymmetric. The cost of PAF mirages is far less as compared to the M2k's. An option that could have been considered was adding more Mirage V and upgrading them to ROSE. This however can still be done but PAF is not intending to do it rather planning on some thing else.
PAF was / is considering on procuring EFT as replacement of these Rose upgraded mirages and mirage v's. What is the current position is not known.
If you consider this then M2k would not have given any considerable advantage.