Whats Holding Pakistan Together?

[niaz]

No country is 100% homogeneous. Since majority always subjugates the minority, there will always be some disaffected groups. This fact is exploited by the centrifugal forces. Therefore you will find hardly any country that is totally void of secessionist movement by some minority groups.

While primary reasons are usually economic, some could be ethno-religious (another name of nationalistic identity). Therefore whenever the central authority shows signs of weakness, these centrifugal forces gain strength. Historically this has always been the underlying cause for the breakup of the Empires/Kingdoms/ States etc. In my lifetime I have seen it happen to Yugoslavia & USSR.

One thing is however beyond doubt; Religion alone cannot hold Pakistan together. Sectarianism within religions as well as ethnicity within the same sect can be exploited by the vested interests for the separatist movement to germinate. For example majority of Kurds are Sunnis but they want to secede from Iraq & Turkey.

With ultra-right wing religious parties, nationalists parties such as Bacha Khan’s Red Shirts and majority of the Baluch Sardars against Pakistan; creation of Pakistan was always controversial. This has been proven by the emergence of Pakhtunistan movement in then NWFP, language riots in Bengal and military action in Kalat very early in Pakistan history. United States, Nigeria and more recently Sri Lanka had to go thru a very painful civil war before they could emerge as a united country. These countries survived purely as a result of military victory whereby secessionists were crushed thru brute force. Pakistan lost Eastern wing because our military was not strong enough.

Support of the religious parties has traditionally been limited in Pakistan. Therefore emergence of jihadis in the form of Taliban was dangerous but not critical. However with the sudden increase in the popularity of Imran Khan and emergence of PTI as ruling party in KPK, extremist elements have gained strong support in the main stream politics. Situation is now critical and territorial integrity of Pakistan in jeopardy.

If GOP were to agree to withdraw army from FATA as a condition of Peace, it would mean independence of FATA in all but name. However PTI leadership is too myopic to perceive this danger. That is why Imran Khan is being singled out for criticism by so many.

I came to the conclusion soon after the failure of Shakai agreement of 2004 that only way to deal with Taliban and Baluch insurgency and to establish writ of the Pakistan State is thru military force. But then people with my view points are derided. In Pakistan personality cult is the fashion of the day. This implies that declaration of Imran Khan or Nawaz Sharif or Munawwar Hassan carries the same weight as the word of God.

 

[third eye]

1. Have skimmed through the article. Usual stuff from Ayaz Amir.

2. Pakistan is held together by two main factors: A) Muslim Identity, & B) River Indus. The competition and enmity India, as well as role of Army is attributable to first factor. The second factor is expressed in the shared cultural values, shared history, and hardy nature and outlook of the people.

3. It would be advisable to check out Ayaz Amir's background and current circumstances before agreeing with him according to own biases. He could not be in PPP; decided to join PML-N only grudgingly; wanted to get into PTI - failed; and then found himself out of National Assembly. These days he is found moaning about the predicament of Nation that did not get to enjoy his leadership in its National Assembly. His fondness for drink is well known and well articulated by himself. Not surprising he was shunned by PML-N.

4. His English readership (his Urdu columns are not much noticed) perhaps does empathize with him. But in practical political matters one can easily discount English-speaking 'Chattering Class'.

5. Hence, Ignoreable.
Your feelings are pretty same as those of Western journalists and Indian journalists. They just do not 'get' it.

To get an objective view often one needs to detach himself & see things from a distance.

I do not wish to start an argument but when seen from a distance the following is visible;

Muslim Identity : I concede the point of enmity with India & role of the army which in my opinion is not a strong glue for a nation to bind itself with. However it ends there. Muslim identity is something that Pakistanis would like to believe is what is holding the nation together but ironically thats what is tearing it apart too . Had Islam not been exploited by Zia & his like, Pak may have remained a moderate muslim nation where the hardliners would not tear it apart from within as they do now. In my opinion religion alone cannot hold a nation together - there has to be more.

Indus River : To generic to comment upon. Seems straight from a brochure . Facts / events on the ground neither corroborate or substantiate this claim.

 

[OrionHunter]

1. Have skimmed through the article. Usual stuff from Ayaz Amir.

2. Pakistan is held together by two main factors: A) Muslim Identity, & B) River Indus. The competition and enmity India, as well as role of Army is attributable to first factor. The second factor is expressed in the shared cultural values, shared history, and hardy nature and outlook of the people.

3. It would be advisable to check out Ayaz Amir's background and current circumstances before agreeing with him according to own biases. He could not be in PPP; decided to join PML-N only grudgingly; wanted to get into PTI - failed; and then found himself out of National Assembly. These days he is found moaning about the predicament of Nation that did not get to enjoy his leadership in its National Assembly. His fondness for drink is well known and well articulated by himself. Not surprising he was shunned by PML-N.

4. His English readership (his Urdu columns are not much noticed) perhaps does empathize with him. But in practical political matters one can easily discount English-speaking 'Chattering Class'.

5. Hence, Ignoreable.

Ignorable? You're shooting the messenger, friend! What has his affiliation with political parties or his background got to do with what he's said in this article?

I think it was very well written and hit the nail on the head. However, with people like you around who don't want to face the bitter truth and continually live in a state of denial, and not attempting an honest course correction for the better, Pakistan will continue to flounder.

Secondly, I was quite shocked when many Pakistani posters on PDF stressed that their priority one is Islam. Priority two is Pakistan!! And that is the reason why there is no sense of nationhood in Pakistan. Yours is not a nation but an entity born purely out of religion.

Now let the bashing begin. Like who the heck am I to talk about Pakistan anyway? I need to mind my own goddamn business!

 

[xyxmt]

1. Have skimmed through the article. Usual stuff from Ayaz Amir.

2. Pakistan is held together by two main factors: A) Muslim Identity, & B) River Indus. The competition and enmity India, as well as role of Army is attributable to first factor. The second factor is expressed in the shared cultural values, shared history, and hardy nature and outlook of the people.

3. It would be advisable to check out Ayaz Amir's background and current circumstances before agreeing with him according to own biases. He could not be in PPP; decided to join PML-N only grudgingly; wanted to get into PTI - failed; and then found himself out of National Assembly. These days he is found moaning about the predicament of Nation that did not get to enjoy his leadership in its National Assembly. His fondness for drink is well known and well articulated by himself. Not surprising he was shunned by PML-N.

4. His English readership (his Urdu columns are not much noticed) perhaps does empathize with him. But in practical political matters one can easily discount English-speaking 'Chattering Class'.

5. Hence, Ignoreable.



Your feelings are pretty same as those of Western journalists and Indian journalists. They just do not 'get' it.

I never knew drinking makes you bad Pakistani or somehow it takes the love of land out of you, All other writers parsa sufi mufti parhaizgar people? If you go by these standards 90% of Pakistani will loose their citizenship

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

The fear of India and the collective feeling of enmity with the Hindus especially among Punjabi Pakistanis.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Strangely Islam is one of the strongest bonds in Pakistan. In fact it is too strong to be called a strength. It is stronger than Pakistan itself.

1. The Army is the principle force. The ISPR etc play a vital role.
2. Presence of a perceived polar and hated opposite India on one hand and a dangerous Afghanistan on the other.

The fear of India and the collective feeling of enmity with the Hindus especially among Punjabi Pakistanis.

The Fear is in the subconscious. No one will admit it. It's easier to camouflage fear with 24 carat Hatred.

In the short run Pakistanis must make sure that Siasat is not hostage to dynasties alone.

 

[scorpionx]

Personally I humbly disagree with the view point that the fear of India holds Pakistan together. The notion that a fear can unite a mass as a nation is too unreasonable to accept. It can hold a small group together for a very small period against a particular invasion but for 70 odd years has been long enough to accept that Pakistan do have different aspects which have contributed significantly for keeping the country together.

But the very argument that common religion, language or culture are the eminent factors for cohesiveness of a country as a Nation is flawed to the core. The attempts to unify a mass by the above factors which have been made by several architects of independent Pakistan failed to set apart the idea of nationalism from religion.

The cohesive factors of a nation largely rests upon the state's effort to engineer a liberal and democratic society, not on something based on religious and linguistic dogmas. Pakistan as a nation will continue to be as it is today and the assumption that it will disintegrate into several pieces on sectarian grounds is far from reality in my personal opinion. Because unlike the popular belief this country is a country of a considerable pool of educated, religiously and culturally flexible,tolerant mass too. The voice of these people will always play a vital and indispensable part in binding the country together as a nation in future. As an Indian, I can't pray more than this for the impervious future of my own country.

 

[karan21]

The threat of India is whats keeping Pakistan together.

 

[Chak Bamu]

All i see is only negative,isnt there something positive to look forward to?
What can be done to bring back the feeling of ''Us,We,Pakistan''?

It is all there. Just a lot of dust on top.

We are a multi-ethnic nation which is going through a crisis of identity. We are unlike Turkey and what works for our brothers in Turkey does not necessarily work for us.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@third eye

1. Role of religion is a generality. The specifics of Pakistanis are determined by our geopolitical circumstances. The centrality of river Indus is a suppressed theme and your dismissal of it seems to be pointed in the same direction. Too bad. You asserted that religion alone can not keep a nation together and that there has to be something more. Well there you go. Our geography is what makes us who we are. It is no accident that Indus basin is predominantly Muslim. There are reasons for it being so.

2. Enmity with India or the strength of PA as an institution is a function of particular views of Muslim identity. These issues can not be assumed to be over-riding reasons for keeping Pakistan together. That is just faulty logic IMHO. For example, given better relations with India, we do not have to perpetuate enmity. That would be pointless. Too much has happened over past decades and I do not really see Pakistanis wanting to be Indians. So, I hope you can see that 'enmity with India' is actually a peripheral issue and not the central one. Similarly, given development of institutions, role of PA would infact be gradually limited. With this anticipated gradual loss of PA influence, Pakistan shall not cease to exist.

I hope you can see that any thesis that places existence of Pakistan at the mercy of enmity or India or preponderance of PA influence is faulty. I could go on, but I hope I have clarified my position enough that you get a general picture, or at least understand my perspective.

3. Pakistan's current problems are attributable to our internal contradictions. Pakistan is still a young country and there are some issues that have not been effectively addressed. We can no longer brush them aside. It is a rite of passage for us and there are no short cuts.

4. If one takes Islam out of the equation, then we are left with a diffuse geographic reality. River Indus would not suffice as a unifying force by itself. And diffused commonalities I alluded to in my earlier post would not overcome ethnicity issues. I may wish for a 'Greater Punjab', a Sindhi might wish for 'Sindhu Desh', a Baluch might strive to establish 'Greater Baluchistan', and a Pakhtoon might want to establish 'Greater Pakhtoonistan'. It would take a at least a century or more for Pakistani identity to supercede all others. And even then, in case you have noticed, Pakistan's borders are not defined by any unique geographic feature.

@OrionHunter

1. A person's background has everything to do with what they say. You are taking issue with "shooting the messenger" because you happen to agree with him; had that not been the case, you would not have bothered to spring to his defense. I have tried to establish a context with a few words. If you do not agree, then so be it.

2. Muslims have generally stressed universality. Nationhood is a practical matter and that is it. Nationalism as a supreme ideology is a poison and disease. Humanity is a family. It can not be divided into competing and often-warring entities in the name of nationalism. No disease or ideology can compare with number of lives lost to nationalism - The two world wars are a testament to this fact, not to mention a lot that happened before and after. Incidentally, Jamiat-Ulema-e-Hind opposed creation of Pakistan because they questioned role of religion in creation of nationhood.

3. No need to bash you my friend. You have a POV. We can agree to disagree civilly.

@xyxmt

I hope you are not advocating breaking Pakistani laws. Mercifully Pakistan is a 'dry' country. If someone is given to enjoying Alcoholic drinks, then let them do so privately. Advocating changes to laws by declaring that every one drinks is an insult to most Pakistanis who do not drink, frown upon it, and support prohibition of Alcohol. If Mr. Ayaz Amir associates with people who like to drink Alcohol, then that does not give him the right to make stupid declarations. It is offensive to say the least.

Our country is being torn apart by extremists on both sides. It is clear which side does Mr. Ayaz Amir choose if one reads his oft repeated points.

@nick_indian and @karan21

You have very simple ideas. I wonder how you come upon them?

@scorpionx - Thanks my friend. You are clearly a minority among PDF Indian members.

 

[T-123456]

It is all there. Just a lot of dust on top.

We are a multi-ethnic nation which is going through a crisis of identity. We are unlike Turkey and what works for our brothers in Turkey does not necessarily work for us.

Well,we dont want to lose our only real ally(brother).
If something is wrong in Pakistan,we are worried and thats why we hope this crisis will be history soon.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Well,we dont want to lose our only real ally(brother).
If something is wrong in Pakistan,we are worried and thats why we hope this crisis will be history soon.

No worries brother. No worries. It is a disease that we are facing, and some people make it sound like death for their own purposes.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Maybe this war against primitivism which our sham democracy is trying to run away from is our historic opportunity to break away from the habits of the past, habits which have cost us so much and prevented us from becoming a nation, and forge a new beginning. But provided we don’t shirk this fight because without sacrifice and blood and toil there are no new beginnings.

Yes. It is more than a historical "opportunity". It is a historical necessity. In the 21st century, if Pakistan cannot organize its affairs to fully eliminate polio, then it can do nothing that matters to its people. Until Pakistani society expunges the elements that keep it from being a 21st century nation, it will be left so far behind that it will merge with Afghanistan in quality of life.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

@third eye

@nick_indian and @karan21

You have very simple ideas. I wonder how you come upon them?

@scorpionx - Thanks my friend. You are clearly a minority among PDF Indian members.

I was perhaps incorrect to suggest that it is the only reason. But, it is certainly one of the most important reason. A threat and fear of invasion and annexation is a strong deterrent against parting ways for the various ethnicities in Pakistan. In fact , I can say with full honesty that China's threat and the experience of a disunited/fractured India in history which was colonised is a strong reason which keeps modern India together as well.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

WHy you want Pakistan should not be told and talked about??

Because like i said the things holding us together in actual sense is something no one will ever know.
U will be told like rest of Pakistanis when the right time will come, but as of now be patient.