Whatever

[Joe Shearer]

That's weird, so they practice any kind of exogamy or cousin marriages are allowed??

Do Haryanvi Ranghars or Muley Jat practiced it (who are in Pakistan BTW), I guess not because UP Ranghars don't do too..

I really don't know. I knew about Meos because they triggered the TJ movement, and they were mentioned in the literature.

 

[Naofumi]

I really don't know. I knew about Meos because they triggered the TJ movement, and they were mentioned in the literature.

This document mentions a couple of communities like Gujjar-Bakarwals, Meos and some villages in Assam who are still gotra-exogamous but overall the norm is gone among Muslims.

 

[Cliftonite]

@Cliftonite How are you? When did you tested positive? Did you had symptoms?

Sorry. Just saw your post. I'm doing fine.Got a high fever last week with a strong headache. I got tested immediately. The fever went down to 100F. Then I completely lost my sense of smell and taste, still haven't gotten it back. And developed irritation and cough in my throat.

Oxygen levels are still above the normal range at 95-97.

Yes, but I didn't want to comment; Muslims, especially Pakistani Muslims, think they know all about Indian/South Asian sociology and correcting them is not easy; I'd rather stick a knitting needle in my eye.

This clan exogamy is known as gotra among caste Hindus (it doesn't exist elsewhere). The Jats have been in the news most often about gotra, thanks to their damned khap system; khaps are gotra-based panchayats, with wide powers of corporal or even capital punishment (needless to say, with no legal sanction whatsoever). How it works is that I, from Kashyap Gotra, may not marry anyone else from Kashyap Gotra; but I may marry a Dhanvantari or a Maudgalya or any other, all within the Vaidya/Baidya caste. Each caste has its own set of gotras; names might be held in common; so, Kashyap is found among Brahmins. The system works the same.

Now, when individuals, families or whole clans are converted, they lose caste, hence they lose gotra. There is then no more restriction in marrying outside the gotra. However, what tends to happen is that even though converts have lost caste and gotra, they tend to marry within the former caste, treating it like a tribe. So a Muslim Bhatti will try to marry another Bhatti, but not to any kind of rigid extent; it becomes a preference, not a rule. A Muslim Jat will try to marry another Jat, but it's not a big deal. Among Muslims and among Sikhs, anyone can marry anyone else. Having said that, the preference thingy can get extreme; so a Jat Sikh doesn't get married to a Khatri or to a Mazhabi. Some Khatri families are valued and distinguished above others, since they are descended to one or the other Guru, and Jats have no problem marrying into those.

Very broadly, the gotra and the caste are gone, only the memories of the caste remain as a tribal identity (quite bogus, par dil ko behlane ke liye), and people marry within their tribe. No formal restriction, however. Nor among the Sikhs.

Very true.

This is what I keep mentioning to @Naofumi but he doesn't listen. It's hard to wipe away remnants of caste. It remains in the forms of biradaris in Pakistan but it's exactly how you mentioned it. A preference. Not a rule set in stone. As opposed to India, where they live in different areas and the top castes don't eat food cooked by lower castes etc etc.

 

[ghazi52]

They were traveling in the same car now they stop for prayer

 

[Naofumi]

This is what I keep mentioning to @Naofumi but he doesn't listen. It's hard to wipe away remnants of caste. It remains in the forms of biradaris in Pakistan but it's exactly how you mentioned it. A preference. Not a rule set in stone. As opposed to India, where they live in different areas and the top castes don't eat food cooked by lower castes etc etc.

You should read the whole conversation

Interesting. I didn't know some of this. Must go and find a textbook on it.

Also,
https://aleemudasir.wordpress.com/2017/02/18/casteism-in-kashmir-my-observations-and-experiences/
You can check roundtableindia.com , Masud Alam Falahi's work in Urdu (I don't if it's available in Pakistan), for Sikh one it's well documented too - I watched a documentary once..
www.dalitmuslims.org/2008/08/caste-and-social-hierarchy-among-indian.html

Moreover, many on PDF itself admit many things, you know I can quote that again.

Now, when individuals, families or whole clans are converted, they lose caste, hence they lose gotra.

If by this, you mean that Muslims lose gotra identification then it's clearly false, Joe. Gotra is there in many communities..

 

[ghazi52]

Kerala Mango

 

[Avicenna]

Enjoy!

 

[MastanKhan]

 

[Nilu Pule]

@Naofumi, @Cliftonite, @Nilu Pule, @fisher1, @W.11, @letsrock, @Avicenna,

Please, do you have anything to say on this?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-do-you-deal-with-losing-interest-in-enthusiasm-for-life.587131/

- PRTP GWD

Inject testosterone in your buttcheeks

 

[fisher1]

Some mod deleted my post where i called him to Islam.

Why so much hatred of Islam by mods here?

Wow

 

[Musings]

Sorry. Just saw your post. I'm doing fine.Got a high fever last week with a strong headache. I got tested immediately. The fever went down to 100F. Then I completely lost my sense of smell and taste, still haven't gotten it back. And developed irritation and cough in my throat.

Oxygen levels are still above the normal range at 95-97.

Have you recovered now? Did you test positive?

 

[Cliftonite]

Have you recovered now? Did you test positive?

Yeah I tested positive. Not recovered yet but recovering.

 

[Musings]

Yeah I tested positive. Not recovered yet but recovering.

Look after yourself bro - rest - stay hydrated - and paracetamol to reduce temperature. I hope and pray for you

 

[Cliftonite]

Look after yourself bro - rest - stay hydrated - and paracetamol to reduce temperature. I hope and pray for you

Thank you!

 

[Naofumi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1274690207321935872

@Cliftonite @jamahir