Khafee
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Glad you said it.Not any more. Did you follow the last Indian PM visit to Russia? It was a damp squib.
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Glad you said it.Not any more. Did you follow the last Indian PM visit to Russia? It was a damp squib.
Second biggest arms customer of Russia is India their armed forces uses 70 to 75% Russian weapon, so why you think that their think is no Indian influence? Care to explainNot any more. Did you follow the last Indian PM visit to Russia? It was a damp squib.
Second biggest arms customer of Russia is India their armed forces uses 70 to 75% Russian weapon, so why you think that their think is no Indian influence? Care to explain
As the deal between india and france is almost done for 36 rafale , what will be the answer of PAF to this acquisition of IAF , RAFALE is miles ahead of anything we have in our inventory , it will shift the balance of power even more , PAF might go for
36 F16 Block 61 (V)
36 J10C
Australian F18 (but pak must not go for american again )
36 J11D if russia allows
36 SU35 ( difficult to get and maintain )
F15 eagle ( very difficult )
36 eurofighter ( if pakistan can get them then its gonna be the most prime fighter of asia )
or shift the funds to J31 and procure them in large numbers
opinions please
He was referring to pakistan. "But one thing is sure, those Rafales will cause more Trouble and damage than Su30 MKI..........to pakistan"
SU is a proven airframe and a best seller in markets .
MKI is a combination of Indian and Western avionics .
So it has its own advantage .
But except JV JF 17 Chinese is not a player in market .
Pace of R&D .If you have ability to create some thing like C17,C130j,AC 130,B2 or F22 within two decade successfuly we can say something about that .
Nowhere .
AFAIK PRC bought S400 and in process of buying Su35 .
Both of them are Russian.
Once again, what do you define as "proven", and what is the inherent worth of possessing such a quality? Every single aircraft undergoes an evaluation, or "proving" stage if you will, before they are certified for service and/or export. When was the last time that real combat experience warranted a drastic change in an aircraft's capabilities or design? The terms "combat tested" or "proven" do not change a platform's specifications.
If we take a look at a comparison of the timelines of major Russia/Chinese/US military projects, it is very apparent that the three nations progress at different paces. Hence, having a head start in one field of military research does not guarantee that you will continue to hold that lead over your rivals.
And yet none of those sales are implicit of a particular need.
I really can't get to your POV in your post up untill now ?
Sorry ,
But you are accepting in your post that that dam stupid F*16s were not able to fly when in kargill we needed them the most ?
I mean with so much money & time & the precocious lives of our soilders were just wasted for the dam machine which can't defend us when we needed them most ?
Bvr wasnt quite was the problem then , it was spares .
What you think , that problem has been resolved now ?
No ,no & never .
& who told you F*16s comes cheaper ?
Just imagine a machine , which isn't working the time we needed it the most , but we are paying millions of $$$ to keep it as show pices & hope our enemy won't attack us ?
My god thats what I call , living over the moon
Sorry again ,
You think our enemy would be waiting to attack us when we will have 150+ thunders & plus dam spareparts prone F*16s ?
No our enemy won't be waiting , they will get us when we are at our lows ?
& without new high tech multirole fighter we will keep standing in our lows , dreaming that dam F-16s will work for us this time ?
& with F16s our enemy has technical advantage that it can put preasure in America to not to send any spares in any conflict with them ?
Basicly F*16s given to Pakistan back in 80s were part of protection from soviet air force in Afghanistan ?
It wasn't meant to defend our selves with our arch rival ?
Sorry ,
We have passed many decades by now , we have experimented that stupid logic , & came like a slap during kargill that , we can't protect ourselves from our enemy with our dam F*16s .
So by now we need to bring a balance in out strategy & in our fleet leading fighter jets ?
Which can be used at any time at any place ?
Russians are more interested in Islamic world not just because for selling their super sukhois but also to share trade , & power ?
With that strategy , they won't be listening to anyone hurting their global plans ?
Be it India ,USA , or anyone else ?
If they were listening them , then today they shouldn't be selling a screw to China , whose air force is mainly made by Russia ?
& I don't want to go into details , that neither India or america wants to see PLAAF getting stronger day by day ?
If they could have stopped Russia , they would have done that decades ago ?
PAF needs good multirole fighters immediately , it has option going with China its most trusted source on projects like J*31s !
PAF also can order 60 +J*10Ds , J-16s at anytime ?
At the same time they can push Russia for 24 plus SU*35s .
if we can have that , force of 100+ high end fighters , I'm sure that at any given time we can defend ourselves from our given enemy , even if it is having the dam American mad rapptors F*22 ?
Yes sure & PAF s doctrine ends or starts with F*16s ?lolzz
So you said that your MKI is battle proven, your MIGS are battle proven, your MIRAGES are battle proven, that word Battle proven is a insane word you CRAPY Indian, and as for copy and paste so why you jealous for China your beloved CRAPY LITTLE AIRCRAFT is also copy of JAS-37,you loser IndianProven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .
Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.
Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?
I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .
Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .
Pls stop that bias right there ?Do you know anything about procurement procedure of tri services and what kind of issue arises? When you have most corrupt people in government which don't provide necessary funds for procurement to military what they want then F-16 love is way to go because our military love western equipment due to quality and advancement.
If one sided battles like operation desert Strom is in your counting then count SU-34 bieng used in sirya by Russians ?Modern versions of battle tested platforms.
Mirages are battle tested ?Do you want proof ?Ask to those soldiers in your nation who paticipated in kargil war ?
Mirages pounded them.Mirages are even bettr because our test subject was Pak soldiers.
you shitty Pakistani.
Save that to yourselves.
We are buying items from US because we need them for now ,only for now for certain purposes.
Who are you to decide Indias foreign policy ?
Russia still remain as tge most important partner of India .US can only dream such a level of friendship.
We wont trust US whatever it is.
Indians always have a socialist idealogy.
GoI uses them only for now for our national interest.
There wont be regular importing of defence equipments in future .So US wont get a Russian type deal .
Buy raffales & beg Russia for the rest of Indian airforce armed with , SUs ,MIGS ?Modern versions of battle tested platforms.
Mirages are battle tested ?Do you want proof ?Ask to those soldiers in your nation who paticipated in kargil war ?
Mirages pounded them.Mirages are even bettr because our test subject was Pak soldiers.
you shitty Pakistani.
Save that to yourselves.
We are buying items from US because we need them for now ,only for now for certain purposes.
Who are you to decide Indias foreign policy ?
Russia still remain as tge most important partner of India .US can only dream such a level of friendship.
We wont trust US whatever it is.
Indians always have a socialist idealogy.
GoI uses them only for now for our national interest.
There wont be regular importing of defence equipments in future .So US wont get a Russian type deal .
I don't want to sound harsh to Pakistani brothers but just my 2cents...
1) India has China too to worry about. Not every weapon that we induct is aimed at Pakistan. Our current inventory of Su-30MKIs and Mirages/ MIG-29 are more than enough to keep PAF at bay.
2) RAFALE once inducted woiuld be Aisa' best fighter. 36 plus whatever addons (as posted by many senior Indian members the final number could well be around 126) will mostly be to have a counter to China's Air Force till the time we induct PAK-Fa or AMCA
3) Frankly speaking, with a 2.3 trillion $ economy growing at 7.4% annually (worlds fastest growing major economy), this conventional gap between Pakistan-India is only going to increase manifolds. Our defence budget today is around 50 billion USD (only 1.5%of our GDP). Imagine in 10 years when we will be a 7-8 trillion USD economy (even taking a mere 7.5% growth rate), our defence budget will be close to 250 billion USD.
Pakistan's best bet is to have a sound defensive capabilities including anti-aircraft defence shields/ radars and hope that we two neighbours don't go to war at all.
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA
Don't cover your stupidity by calling other stealing. Ignorant to the most. You can even reverse a bolt when others present the whole platform to you. Can you even build a Mig21 variant? No even a rifle and bullet proof jacket.Proven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .
Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.
Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?
I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .
Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .
Lets just put things in Prespective
_____________Rafale ------------------------ vs ------------------JF Thunder
Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft) -------------------------------------------Length: 14.93 m (49 ft) ------------------(Tie)
Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)----------------------------------------Wingspan: 9.45 m ------------------------(Tie)
Empty Wight 10,300 kilograms (22,700 lb)----------------------Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)--- THUNDER
Loaded weight: 15,000 kilograms (33,000 lb)------------------Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)---- Rafale
High Speed : Mach 1.8 (1,912 km/h, 1,032 knots)------------speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)--Thunder
Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi) with 3 drop tanks ---------Combat radius: 3,482 km --------------Tie
BVR -----------------------------------------------------------------------PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range) -----Tie
AESA ----------------------------------Arriving Soon ---------(Momentary advantage)
Targeting pod (Yes) -------------------------------------------Yes (Tie)
Fancy Helmet (Yes)---------------------------------------------(Momentary advantage)
Number of Jets INDIA (0) --------------------------------------Pakistan (65)