what will be pakistan's answer to rafale

[batmannow]

Rafale vs SU-35

Dassault Rafale vs Sukhoi SU-35
Overall rating table

CATEGORY DASSAULT RAFALE SUKHOI SU-35
BVR Rating
RAFALE VS SU*35
90% 80%
Armament
7.8/10 8.1/10
Technology
7.7/10 8.1/10
Avionics
8.0/10 8.2/10
Maneuverability
9.5/10 8.4/10
Rate of Climb max.
300 m/s – 60k ft/min
max. 280 m/s – 55k ft/min

Thrust/Weight
1.13 1.10

Service Ceiling
17 km – 55k ft 18 km – 59k ft
Speed
2.00 Mach 2.25 Mach
Fuel Economy
0.27 km/l – 0.63 NM/gallon
0.19 km/l – 0.44 NM/gallon
Unit Cost
90.000.000 USD /65.000.000 USD

Overall Rating very good very good
BVR Armament Comparison

CATEGORY DASSAULT RAFALE SUKHOI SU-35
BVR AAM missile
rafale su*35
MBDA Meteor/ Vympel R-77M
Nation
NATO /RUSSIA
Year in
2013 /1998
Range (mile)
62 / 99
Range (km)
100 /160
Range (NM)
54 /86
Speed (mph)
2640 /2970
Speed (km/h)
4248 /4779
Speed (Mach)
4 /4,5
Weight (lb)
407 /497
Weight (kg)
185 /226
Unit Cost
$1.600.000 /Unknown
BVR Rating
90% /80%
Dogfight (armament: only cannon)

DASSAULT RAFALE /SUKHOI SU-35
Cannon
GIAT 30M/719B GSh-30-1
Caliber (mm) 30 /mm 30 mm
Rate of Fire(rpm)
2500 rpm /1800 rpm
Muzzle Velocity (m/s)
1025 m/s /850 m/s
Size Point (10% to 30%)
30% /NO
Maneuverability (x/10)
9,5 /8,4
Thrust/Weight Ratio
1,13 /1,10
Total Points 65 /33
Probability of winning
66%/ 34%
General data table


DASSAULT RAFALE SUKHOI SU-35

Length
15.27 m – 50 ft 1 in
21.90 m – 72 ft 10 in
Wingspan
10.80 m – 35 ft 4 in 15.30 m – 50 ft 3 in
Height 5.30 m – 17 ft 3 in 5.90 m – 19 ft 4 in
Weight 10,100 kg – 22,6k lb 18,500 kg – 41k lb
Power
2 x 75 kN – 17k lbf 2 x 142 kN – 32k lbf
Armament

DASSAULT RAFALE SUKHOI SU-35
14 HARDPOINTS vs 14 HARDPOINTS
1 × 30 mm GIAT 30/719B cannon (125 rounds) 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon (150 rounds)
MBDA MICA IR/EM (AAM missile)
Vympel R-27R, R-27ER, R-27T (AAM missile)
Magic II (AAM missile)
Vympel R-27ET, R-27EP, R-27AE (AAM missile)
MBDA Meteor (AAM missile)
Vympel R-77, R-77M1, R-77T (
AAM missile)
MBDA Apache (AGM missile)
vs

Vympel R-73E, R-73M, R-74M (AAM missile)
SCALP EG (AGM missile) Kh-31A, Kh-31P

Anti-radiation (AGM missile)

AASM (AGM missile)
Kh-59 (AGM missile)
AM 39 Exocet (AGM missile)
Kh-29T, Kh-29L (AGM missile)
ASMP-A (nuclear AGM missile)
KAB-500L, KAB-1500 (bomb)
Paveway II (bomb)
FAB-250, FAB-500 (bomb)
LGB-250 (bomb)
B-13, S-13 (rocket)
B-8, S-8 (rocket)
S-25LD, S-250 (rocket)
Facts – Dassault Rafale vs Sukhoi SU-35

Sukhoi SU-35 is cheaper.
Dassault Rafale is more economical.
Sukhoi SU-35 is faster.
Sukhoi SU-35 is better armed.
Dassault Rafale is better dogfighter.
Dassault Rafale is smaller than Sukhoi SU-35.

 

[madmusti]

 

[Bheemsen]

You dont only need answers to rafale , even if India conclude this expensive deal you will have to deal with 44 squad of 4 and 4+ gen fighters by 2020.
16 squad of Su30mki (272+40) (Around 80 super upgraded with aesa)
3 squad of tejas Mk1 a + 1 squad on Mk1
3 squad of upgraded mirage2k
3 squad of MiG 29 UPG
3 squad of naval Mig 29 K
5 squad of highly upgraded jaguar drain 3 strike jets
7 squad of Mig21Bison (BVR capable interceptors)
3 squad of Latest Rafael 36+18 follow on

This all will be sure shot done till 2020.

PAF will only have max 4 squad of F16 and 7 squad of jf17 to stand up to these rest all in your inventory are useless.

Jai Bheem , Jai Bharat.

 

[CHI RULES]

The PAF in defensive posture do not require huge number of hi tech jets . Further F7PGs oif Pak are still new birds, may be prepared as viable interceptors by some up gradation.
Till 2020 there are vital chances that PAF will induct J31 as many modifications have been going on in it. The J31 in limited numbers if deployed even in limited numbers along with JF17s block III and upgraded F16s shall be a great challenge for any adversary.
Further there are vital chances that Pak may go for capable SAM systems for long range high altitude SAM systems like FD2000. Due to less strategic depth only few batteries shall suffice the defensive needs of Pak, at least to defend big cities like Isl, Kchi/Gawadar and Lahore meanwhile other areas may be defended by medium/low level SAM systems like LY 60,Aspide etc.

I am quite assured that being expensive doesn't mean that cheaper adversary can't challenge it. The human factor shall always be there. We have recent example of Yemen where KSA and allies despite using latest and hi tech weapons are facing stiff resistance from Houtis. They have lost many jets and latest tanks like Abrams against Militia.

Further we have evident example of Falkland war where few Mirages with handful ASHMs of Argentine stuck heavily on British Naval assets.

Even Block II JF17s are capable enough to challenge any offensive fighter jet. It has Spanish Indra EW suite and other gadgets, Further JF17-block III shall have further upgraded features as confirmed by PAF officials and IHS janes like AESA radar (most Prob EU origin), EW suite( EU origin also already in use) , IRST etc. Being light fighter may be an advantage instead of disadvantage as light weight also adds more agility and smaller volume also brings low RCS. The body will have more composite materials making it further stealthy.

The JF17 though a multi role fighter but it's prime responsibility is Air defense not deep penetration missions, which may be done in future by J31.

India can't deploy all of it's squadrons against Pak it;s pathetic and silly approach to count squadrons again and again. Further operational availability of SU30 shall remain a problem through out life span.

 

[Bheemsen]

The PAF in defensive posture do not require huge number of hi tech jets . Further F7PGs oif Pak are still new birds, may be prepared as viable interceptors by some up gradation.
Till 2020 there are vital chances that PAF will induct J31 as many modifications have been going on in it. The J31 in limited numbers if deployed even in limited numbers along with JF17s block III and upgraded F16s shall be a great challenge for any adversary.
Further there are vital chances that Pak may go for capable SAM systems for long range high altitude SAM systems like FD2000. Due to less strategic depth only few batteries shall suffice the defensive needs of Pak, at least to defend big cities like Isl, Kchi/Gawadar and Lahore meanwhile other areas may be defended by medium/low level SAM systems like LY 60,Aspide etc.

I am quite assured that being expensive doesn't mean that cheaper adversary can't challenge it. The human factor shall always be there. We have recent example of Yemen where KSA and allies despite using latest and hi tech weapons are facing stiff resistance from Houtis. They have lost many jets and latest tanks like Abrams against Militia.

Further we have evident example of Falkland war where few Mirages with handful ASHMs of Argentine stuck heavily on British Naval assets.

Even Block II JF17s are capable enough to challenge any offensive fighter jet. It has Spanish Indra EW suite and other gadgets, Further JF17-block III shall have further upgraded features as confirmed by PAF officials and IHS janes like AESA radar (most Prob EU origin), EW suite( EU origin also already in use) , IRST etc. Being light fighter may be an advantage instead of disadvantage as light weight also adds more agility and smaller volume also brings low RCS. The body will have more composite materials making it further stealthy.

The JF17 though a multi role fighter but it's prime responsibility is Air defense not deep penetration missions, which may be done in future by J31.

India can't deploy all of it's squadrons against Pak it;s pathetic and silly approach to count squadrons again and again. Further operational availability of SU30 shall remain a problem through out life span.

I will shave my head bald if J31 even enters production till 2020 , Chinese themselves have put project on back burner and not ready to invest till they find a partner ready to invest on this , highly unlikely in 4 yrs. F7PG isnt a BVR fighter

 

[CHI RULES]

I will shave my head bald if J31 even enters production till 2020 , Chinese themselves have put project on back burner and not ready to invest till they find a partner ready to invest on this , highly unlikely in 4 yrs. F7PG isnt a BVR fighter

I wrote expected date of J31 induction 2020 based on info by timline given for production by Chinese officials and considering urgency of India to get latest jets as PAF has o mantain minimum counter measures. Even if their is one to two years delay pls shave ur head. F7PG can be upgraded to have some BVR capability quite easily considering that their is sufficient life in these jets. Even some people claim that they still have some BVR capability.

Apart from some expectations based on my own analysis other facts like inability of IAF to bring all squadrons on Pak front and especially operational capability/readiness of SU30 are proven by ur own country reports. Pls check and then respond.

 

[Bheemsen]

I wrote expected date of J31 induction 2020 based on info by timline given for production by Chinese officials and considering urgency of India to get latest jets as PAF has o mantain minimum counter measures. Even if their is one to two years delay pls shave ur head. F7PG can be upgraded to have some BVR capability quite easily considering that their is sufficient life in these jets. Even some people claim that they still have some BVR capability.

Apart from some expectations based on my own analysis other facts like inability of IAF to bring all squadrons on Pak front and especially operational capability/readiness of SU30 are proven by ur own country reports. Pls check and then respond.

Su30 operational capability is set to rise by 75% with Russia opening 4 mantainence facility across India for choppers and jets already been discussed in many posts , Regarding 41 squad strength(excluding navy) i stated is bare minimum in worst case scenario and MOD is working on to increase it to 50 by 2025 via another 4+ gen aircraft being considered in Make in India also FGFA is making progress , if PAF is interested in j31 which looks promising they should immediately join in joint development like jF17 to give it required push.

BTW my post had date of 2020 with 3.5 yrs jf17 will be only block 2 , no long range sam negotiations going for pak so is j31 so none will be in service by 2020 all ur mirages 40+ yrs old will be post retirement so will be half of f7pg just like Indian mig 27 and half mig 21 non bison upgraded mothballed for spares apart from these 100 odd hawk trainers will be weaponized for CAS also f16 and jf17 availability in paf is max 75% any number above this is pure hallucination also many of your f16 are second hand and old aged airframe max paf will field 12-13 odd capable fighters squad , f7pg isn't as good as mig 21 bison .

 

[salarsikander]

Hi,

As soon as Rafel comes, the answer to them will come in swift reply. But the 16bn Dollar question is when are they coming?

 

[Paksanity]

Su30 operational capability is set to rise by 75% with Russia opening 4 mantainence facility across India for choppers and jets already been discussed in many posts , Regarding 41 squad strength(excluding navy) i stated is bare minimum in worst case scenario and MOD is working on to increase it to 50 by 2025 via another 4+ gen aircraft being considered in Make in India also FGFA is making progress , if PAF is interested in j31 which looks promising they should immediately join in joint development like jF17 to give it required push.

BTW my post had date of 2020 with 3.5 yrs jf17 will be only block 2 , no long range sam negotiations going for pak so is j31 so none will be in service by 2020 all ur mirages 40+ yrs old will be post retirement so will be half of f7pg just like Indian mig 27 and half mig 21 non bison upgraded mothballed for spares apart from these 100 odd hawk trainers will be weaponized for CAS also f16 and jf17 availability in paf is max 75% any number above this is pure hallucination also many of your f16 are second hand and old aged airframe max paf will field 12-13 odd capable fighters squad , f7pg isn't as good as mig 21 bison .

For ages we are hearing the blabbering "we are buying this and modernising that". When you are done please come to us. You will find us ready and waiting.

 

[New World]

for the God's sake can we buy SAM..

 

[Bheemsen]

For ages we are hearing the blabbering "we are buying this and modernising that". When you are done please come to us. You will find us ready and waiting.

What ever mentioned in my post apart from rafale is already in progress and deals finalized.

--Jai Bheem , Jai Bharat.

 

[Paksanity]

What ever mentioned in my post apart from rafale is already in progress and deals finalized.

--Jai Bheem , Jai Bharat.

When I see them flying in India then we shall talk. Your deals have been finalising for decades. When Rafales land with India flag painted on them, come back to us. This forum is filled with nonsense of what you are about sign and what negotiations are going on. By that time we will have reply ready for you. Now beat it.

 

[randomradio]

I will shave my head bald if J31 even enters production till 2020 ,

Your hair's safe. 2024.

 

[Bheemsen]

When I see them flying in India then we shall talk. Your deals have been finalising for decades. When Rafales land with India flag painted on them, come back to us. This forum is filled with nonsense of what you are about sign and what negotiations are going on. By that time we will have reply ready for you. Now beat it.

Su 30 mki 272 already ordered with 230 delivered additional 40 order in process additional 40 talks in progress , Super 30 program on track , contract signed with Russia for 4 mantainence facility and additional spares stockpile to increase su30 availability by 75% , mirage 2000 upgrade already in progress to be completed by 2019 , Mig29 UPG already in progress with 10 already upgraded project to finish by 2018-2019 , Jaguar Darin 3 test flight in progress upgrades to finish by 2020 , combat hawk already being negotiated with additional 20+ hawk jet trainers ,rafale deal price negotiation in progress. even without Rafales IAF will have 40+ squad strength soon of 4 and 4+ gen fighters

--Jai Bheem , Jai Bharat.