What US can do if China dumps its debt

[anon45]

The priorities are like this: Food+water -> Stability+security -> Economic opportunities -> Opportunities for self-actualization.

"Free speech" doesn't rank that highly, although if you notice... one of our Chinese members isn't a big fan of Hu Jintao (putting it lightly) and that is perfectly fine.

Since when does stability, security, and economic opportunity rank on a scale with freedom of speech? Unless China's government is only giving a false sense of security there shouldn't need to be a 'ranking between them because free speech isn't a concept that will jeapordize those priorities.

The ranking should more be like this


Food & water ->[Self-actualization,Stability+Security]->Economic opportunity


Food & water is indeed the most important, as what freedom can there be without the freedom to live?

But stability and security is not something that needs to be achieved while ignoring Opportunities for self-actualization as you put it. Both can happen at the same time. Economic opportunity should spring from both.

 

[gambit]

Democracy is great when it exists in "developed" countries like those in Europe (Switzerland etc.) and in East Asia (Japan etc).

That is a loaded word wide open to interpretations. The US was not a 'developed' country when the US Constitution was written. But then again, the country was 'developed' compared to whom and 'not developed' compared to who else? This is a stale argument because it presupposed people are naturally stupid requiring to be led by a mythical benevolent dictator who will step aside whenever the people ask.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That is a loaded word wide open to interpretations. The US was not a 'developed' country when the US Constitution was written. But then again, the country was 'developed' compared to whom and 'not developed' compared to who else? This is a stale argument because it presupposed people are naturally stupid requiring to be led by a mythical benevolent dictator who will step aside whenever the people ask.

OK sure. Here is the question though.

China is often labeled as the leader of the "developing world"... and the Chinese economy is larger than all the other BRIC nations combined. We are also the fastest growing major economy on Earth.

Tell me, which large developing country (preferably a democratic one) is doing better than China?

I don't pretend that China's political system is perfect, nor would I label China as a "Communist" country, since the ideology is quite different. However, "developing" countries haven't exactly been doing well with democracy nowadays, my previous examples being Nigeria, South Africa, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Both can happen at the same time. Economic opportunity should spring from both.

I'm sure it can, someone just needs to find a way to do it.

Just look at a list of large developing nations.

None of them have reached the level of economic success that China has, much less doing it in combination with reaching a high level of human rights that would be acceptable in a developed country.

Right now, it looks like it's one or the other, I haven't seen any large developing nation that has successfully accomplished both at the same time.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Not really.

Democracy is great when it exists in "developed" countries like those in Europe (Switzerland etc.) and in East Asia (Japan etc).

However, how does it fare, in large "developing countries"?

Some examples: Nigeria, Democratic Republic of the Congo, South Africa, etc.

The closest example you can get of a developing country that is of a similar "size" to China, is India. Yet China is now the 2nd largest economy on Earth and India isn't even in the top ten largest economies. Even though we started from the same place, China's economy is four times bigger than India's and growing faster too.

That is not necessarily a failure of democracy, but a failure to apply democracy to developing nations.

from our point of view a poor democracy is always better than a rich autocracy(No offence ). we think we have the best possible system which is democracy..yes as you said we are not in top ten but we certainly are not filed..actually we have performed quiet well despite of our hugely diverse culture,language,religion and cast and add to that huge population(in china govt can control it easily but here govt can only advise can't impose ), poverty etc.
all these makes function of democratic system difficult but we still managed fairly well.
and many developed countries looted india like countries to run their industrialization and modernization.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

from our point of view a poor democracy is always better than a rich autocracy(on offence ). we think we have the best possible system which is democracy..yes as you said we are not in top ten but we certainly are not filed..actually we have performed quiet well despite of our hugely diverse culture,language,religion and cast and add to that huge population(in china govt can control it easily but here govt can only advise can't impose ), poverty etc.
all these makes function of democratic system difficult but we still managed fairly well.
and many developed countries looted india like countries to run their industrialization and modernization.

China is following the East Asian model of development. Which means "developing" the country under an autocratic government, then after the country is developed, political liberalization.

Same thing happened in South Korea, Taiwan, etc.

I think this model works for China, and if Indians are happy with their model then that is good as well.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

China is following the East Asian model of development. Which means "developing" the country under an autocratic government, then after the country is developed, political liberalization.

Same thing happened in South Korea, Taiwan, etc.

I think this model works for China, and if Indians are happy with their model then that is good as well.

we indians will be more comfortable with a politically liberal and much more transparent china.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

we indians will be more comfortable with a politically liberal and much more transparent china.

Sorry, but what point are you trying to make?

I'm sure it would make India happy, but our job is not to make India happy.

China's highest priorities are stability, and economic development. This will continue to be true for the foreseeable future.

 

[HongWu]

There is no brainwashing as you describe as there is no need for it, plain and simple. Further, the demographics of the USA are far more stable than ANY other major power, including China's.

There are radical white americans for sure, but trust me, ALL immigrants fall in love with the country that welcomes them so openly and provides them all the tools for their eventual success. I know. I am one of them.

American politics is getting more and more vicious. What happens when there are domestic political groups using violence? North versus South divide? Democrats versus Republicans divide? Coastal states versus fly-over states divide?

China may hold $1 trillion in US debt, but also holds $2.8 trillion in currency reserves. That is the bigger issue.

The only way is to do trading in RMB or other foreign currency, especially oil transactions. Influence in the Middle East will be very important to making RMB a global reserve currency.

You are a closet racist who pretends he is not to be politically correct. Insinuating that US IQ is falling and implying Chinese have more of it and statements like


inevitably betray your true thoughts. You sir, are not even bold enough to accept your true thoughts.

He is not being racist, he is being racialist. There is a huge difference.

 

[VCheng]

Also, VCheng, do you find it wrong that your country of origin is allied to a "Communist state"... and your country of adoption is in an economic partnership with a "Communist state"?

I have no problems with either of those.

Pakistan is my birthplace and I will always love it.

China's alignment is only for as long as its national interests are being served. Already, China is India's biggest trading partner.

My adopted homeland is China's biggest market, and I see this economic partnership continuing for benefit of both.

Why would you even think that I might have a problem with that?

China's culture and civilization go back thousands of years, while communism has been there for only little more that half a century. That it will not last in its present form in the overal scheme of things is my prediction.

 

[casual]

it won't happen

 

[cross1993]

The USA political criminals more than the China. The world's largest number of political prisoners in the USA.

Please look at your query:
The USA political criminals, Puerto Rico, vieques.

Falun Gong is a cult.
Germany report:<Twenty-six characteristics of a cult>
Falun Gong there each characteristics.

PS: Falun Gong funds from USA. it is the anti-government organizations and espionage organization.

 

[cross1993]

How the Americans to deal with the cult?
Are the same all over the world.

American-funded cult to interfere in China, it will provoke hostility and mistrust.
We do not believe the Americans. It will be excluded who accept American assistance.

 

[gambit]

OK sure. Here is the question though.

China is often labeled as the leader of the "developing world"... and the Chinese economy is larger than all the other BRIC nations combined. We are also the fastest growing major economy on Earth.

Tell me, which large developing country (preferably a democratic one) is doing better than China?

I don't pretend that China's political system is perfect, nor would I label China as a "Communist" country, since the ideology is quite different. However, "developing" countries haven't exactly been doing well with democracy nowadays, my previous examples being Nigeria, South Africa, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Easily debunked......After the defeat of Nazi Germany, two new Germanys came to be. One sided with the US and allies. The other sided with the Soviet Union and allies. Both received aid and other assorted assistance in other areas to rebuild from their respective sponsors. So why was there such a gross disparity in living standards between the two? The word 'developed' is loaded because even though the original Germany was utterly defeated in war, its citizens were not ignorant savages but quite educated. Their factories may have been destroyed but the knowledge on how to rebuild those structures were never lost, if anything, given the intellectual might and assistance of the US and the USSR, that knowledge actually improved. But the result for decades since partition was that East Germany was poorer than West Germany in many ways and no better than an example of that disparity was Berlin. I have been in East Berlin when it existed so that ought to give you an idea how old am I. Between the two Berlins, I will take West Berlin any day and so will anyone here.

Communism is a failure from day one. China's rise today is no thanks to communism but from the selective discard of crucial elements of communism so that elements of capitalism can save China. Adopted wholesale from the Soviets, communism made a laughing stock out of a country that has an enviable history that goes back several thousands years. The China of today could have been the China of yesterday and everyone in the CCP knows it.