What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

[GoldenRatio1618]

For PAF Which Combination will be Suitable ?
1. JF-17s ,JH-7B, F16 & F18
2. Su 35, F16s, JF-17, J-10c
3. JF-17s, F16s, JH-7b,J10c, J-31.
4. JF-17s, F16s, J31, F35
5. JF-17s,F16s,JH-7B,J11D
6. JF-17,F16s,JH-7B,J31
7. JF17s,JH-7B,F18,J31
8. Su-35,JF-17s,J31, F16s
9. Su-35,J31,JH7B,F18

 

[Signalian]

We must use 3 different type of jets not all same single engine multirole jets who will make whole in capability of PAF

PAF wanted to go for twin engined ones too but couldn't strike a deal.
JF17 is there to stay for a very long time.
F-16 can sit in hangars if they are struck by embargo.
F-7 and Mirages are to go soon or eventually.

It's absurd but PAF should start phasing and selling out F16, from the money collected J 10 should be bought.( not gonna happen )

Use avionics suite of J 31 on J10 to make it a more capable aircraft.

Lastly acquire J31 and use J20 avionics suite on it.

Three types : JF 17, J 10 and J31 are good enough.

and with our limited sam we are at IAF mercy

Incorrect.
IAF would have already bombed the hell out of Pakistan if we were at IAF mercy.

Regarding SAM, a fully layered SAM network is expensive however SAMs at important places like airfields etc are vital and are in place. SPADA 2000 is a good acquisition.
Rest is covered by PAF.

 

[Signalian]

paf has did blunders and it was not bound to happen..
Mirage 2000 and jaguar was on plate in 80's and in 90's but they choose 2-3 decades old mirage III/V..
in early 2000 rafale was on plate with all means but they choose f-16 and that is of only 18..

M2K was not on offer when F 16 was offered. PAF went after M2K itself later .Secondly, cost was another issue when they became available. The only 4th gen aircraft that PAF had was F-16 till JF-17 was added.
PAF also evaluated Tornado, Mig 29, Su 27 but went for F-7 and initiated JF-17 program.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The mirage F1 was available---a very potent platform---. It could have taken out anything in the russian arsenal in afg---even the mirage 3/5 were superior to what the russians had.

The off course the focus should have been on the mirage 2k----. The problem with the paf is a lack of strategic vision---it is on the verge of being ' stupid '.

This organization should not be allowed to buy an aircraft---they should only assess it and let another party make the decision and place the order.

 

[New World]

M2K was not on offer when F 16 was offered. PAF went after M2K itself later .Secondly, cost was another issue when they became available. The only 4th gen aircraft that PAF had was F-16 till JF-17 was added.
PAF also evaluated Tornado, Mig 29, Su 27 but went for F-7 and initiated JF-17 program.

M2k and F1 was plate along with jaguar but paf choose old and about to outdated Mirage III/V which they had in their arsenal for 2 decades and reject the new and powerfull technology.
in early 20's paf did same mistake by rejecting rafale and selecting f-16.. and now they are desperate to counter same rafale which they had rejected few years earlier..

i will second the sir @MastanKhan 's comment that paf has no future and strategic visions and they are just time passing and enjoying on our taxes..

 

[Signalian]

M2k and F1 was plate along with jaguar but paf choose old and about to outdated Mirage III/V which they had in their arsenal for 2 decades and reject the new and powerfull technology.
in early 20's paf did same mistake by rejecting rafale and selecting f-16.. and now they are desperate to counter same rafale which they had rejected few years earlier..

i will second the sir @MastanKhan 's comment that paf has no future and strategic visions and they are just time passing and enjoying on our taxes..

This is where the cost factor comes in and also why I said that it was inevitable.
French planes started to get out of pocket, be it M2K or F-1 or Rafale.

If PAF had gone for F-1 even, maybe bought 50-80. Then fewer numbers of M2K after that and in 2000's even fewer number of Rafale for cost issues. There just wouldn't be numbers ever. This is why going for older Mirage III/V was planned, numbers in a certain price range. F-7 made up numbers for PAF. JF-17 is a light aircraft, it can replace all obsolete aircrsft on 1 on 1 basis. When J-10 was planned, starting numbers were 36-40 and speculated were eventually 150.

With Chinese aircrafts, comes flexibility of price and now good technology. In past PAF even got free aircrafts from China. Recently, PAF got F-16's from aid package from USA. In 5 billion USD, PAF couldn't upgrade older F-1 and Mirage2k and acquire 18 Rafale only from France.

I never said PAF did the right thing by going for F-16's in 1980's or even in 2005, but that's a different topic.

 

[New World]

This is where the cost factor comes in and also why I said that it was inevitable.
French planes started to get out of pocket, be it M2K or F-1 or Rafale.

If PAF had gone for F-1 even, maybe bought 50-80. Then fewer numbers of M2K after that and in 2000's even fewer number of Rafale for cost issues. There just wouldn't be numbers ever. This is why going for older Mirage III/V was planned, numbers in a certain price range. F-7 made up numbers for PAF. JF-17 is a light aircraft, it can replace all obsolete aircrsft on 1 on 1 basis. When J-10 was planned, starting numbers were 36-40 and speculated were eventually 150.

With Chinese aircrafts, comes flexibility of price and now good technology. In past PAF even got free aircrafts from China. Recently, PAF got F-16's from aid package from USA. In 5 billion USD, PAF couldn't upgrade older F-1 and Mirage2k and acquire 18 Rafale only from France.

I never said PAF did the right thing by going for F-16's in 1980's or even in 2005, but that's a different topic.

F-16's induction iin 80's was right decision but after sanction paf lost 15 year to order new high end fighter..
in early 20's 72 jets were planned and were divided in 36 for western jet and 36 for eastern jet.. if paf had ordered rafale that would be 36 jets not like 18 f-16.. and the other advantage for rafale induction was the weapon and avionic packages for JF-17 which now paf is begging to get avionic and weapon packages for JF-17..

 

[Signalian]

F-16's induction iin 80's was right decision but after sanction paf lost 15 year to order new high end fighter..
in early 20's 72 jets were planned and were divided in 36 for western jet and 36 for eastern jet.. if paf had ordered rafale that would be 36 jets not like 18 f-16.. and the other advantage for rafale induction was the weapon and avionic packages for JF-17 which now paf is begging to get avionic and weapon packages for JF-17..

15 years weren't lost.

PAF spent money and time in manufacturing an aircraft and that's where most of the funds went. Before this PAF would have funds available to buy anything off the shelf but things changed after 1990's.

Firstly staring in 90's, Most of the available funds went into sabre II project which eventually became JF-17.

Secondly,After that PAF went for 2 different types of AWACS and air refuellers. This was not 80's or pre 80's that force multipliers could be ignored. This required funds.

Thirdly, funds have also been allocated towards manufacturing 66 JF-17 so far. More different kinds of weapons were bought for JF-17.

Fourthly, JF-17 project is still continuing and funds are engaged in design and production work for Block -3.

its hard to imagine any funds left to buy 36 Rafale aircrafts, including related weaponry and other support equipment. It's costing Qatar 7 billion USD for 24 Rafale .

If PAF gets into J-31 project or acquisition, this would again require funds and there won't be any spare funds to buy a new aircraft.

India can start a manufacturing project ( Tejas ) and acquire aircrafts ( SU-30 etc )side by side, and it did. Pakistan has to compromise somewhere.

As for avionics and weapons package for JF-17, PAF found Chinese avionics comparable to western and decided to incorporate that in JF-17.
I think RC-400 is french and was being chosen. It's still not AESA.
KLJ 7 is doing the same job. I don't think PAF is begging anyone, PAF is satisfied with Chinese hardware and wants to incorporate Chinese AESA in block 3.

J-31 can help more in induction and weapons suite for JF-17 than Rafale, it's a generation ahead.

I'm going to repeat myself about 5 billion USD package for 18 new F-16's. it wasn't just 18 aircraft, PAF modernised the whole F-16 fleet under this package and brought them at almost same level , well 90% same. That's 18 + 32 = 50 with related weaponry. I'm not sure if option of another 18 block 52 is covered in it or not.

 

[MastanKhan]

M2k and F1 was plate along with jaguar but paf choose old and about to outdated Mirage III/V which they had in their arsenal for 2 decades and reject the new and powerfull technology.
in early 20's paf did same mistake by rejecting rafale and selecting f-16.. and now they are desperate to counter same rafale which they had rejected few years earlier..

i will second the sir @MastanKhan 's comment that paf has no future and strategic visions and they are just time passing and enjoying on our taxes..

Hi,

So---F16---pakistan picked out the pretiest girl---the indians picked out the 2nd most pretty---the M2K----.

Then the angry congress thru acid on the face of our pretty girl.

The issue of strategy and game plan never entered the minds of the paf or they were extremely arrogant----.

My personal analysis goes towards arrogance---belligerence and a total lack of understanding and looking at the bigger picture.

If paf had gone for the F 1 and then the M2K---the enemy had nowhere to go to get a tier fighter aircraft of western origin.

Paf is the same air force that also had rejected the Hawkeye---saying they were not good enough for them---and then 10 years later realized that they screwed up.

Saving money is not everything---and that was proven when the air force was not ready for kargil---made all frigging excuses of sanctions---lied to the public---.

Sanctions or no sanctions---it was their job to eqip the air force with the right numbers of operatable aircraft---and the paf failed miserably---.

The only thing it has is excuses and SOB STORIES.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Current choice should be SU 35 and J11 D
Then J31 for next decade choice

 

[princefaisal]

For PAF Which Combination will be Suitable ?
1. JF-17s ,JH-7B, F16 & F18
2. Su 35, F16s, JF-17, J-10c
3. JF-17s, F16s, JH-7b,J10c, J-31.
4. JF-17s, F16s, J31, F35
5. JF-17s,F16s,JH-7B,J11D
6. JF-17,F16s,JH-7B,J31
7. JF17s,JH-7B,F18,J31
8. Su-35,JF-17s,J31, F16s
9. Su-35,J31,JH7B,F18

250 JF-17, 100 (Su-35, J-16), 100 F-16, 50 J-31

 

[Paksanity]

Are you guys not considering that in 80s Pakistan's GDP growth was highest in its history? And that is why we could pay for weapons! And 2000s have the lowest growth years of our economy. Bring economy back on its legs and you will have what you want. Or you can keep yourself in imaginary lands with thousands of Jets of your personal liking.

Under the circumstances, PAF did best with whatever resources it was given. It couldn't be better than this. As a matter of fact, one of the Air Chief got so annoyed with the situation that he declared openly to media that PAF is no longer able to secure Pakistan's aerial borders unless something is done urgently by political government. Such kind of statement never comes out of military.

 

[Basel]

Well that is understandable. It's the last thing on the agenda. Nonetheless, having it, or an alternative is a plus.

Btw we can BLAME @MastanKhan in to turning us into JH7B believers

And PAF, PN hate that jet.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Hi,

The mirage F1 was available---a very potent platform---. It could have taken out anything in the russian arsenal in afg---even the mirage 3/5 were superior to what the russians had.

The off course the focus should have been on the mirage 2k----. The problem with the paf is a lack of strategic vision---it is on the verge of being ' stupid '.

This organization should not be allowed to buy an aircraft---they should only assess it and let another party make the decision and place the order.

The mirage F-1 was a lost oppertunity
the mirage F-1 would have been great back in the 90s and early 00s the mirage F-1EQ shot down an Iranian F-14, i remember reading back on this forum called acig.org that 2 things NATO were slighly unsettled of were the SU-24s and F-1EQs back in dessert storm due to there ECM/BVR ability, it was a lost opportunity for PAF. the F-1s would have given PAF something the chinese mig-21 clones couldn't. And it possibly would have stopped some of this F-16 obssesion

 

[Max Pain]

Truth be told. Russian and Chinese aircraft require huge and cumbersome maintenance. Spares are also an issue because these are not readily available in quality from the original sources. A rough estimate would put serviceability at 50% of the inventory. In PAF, BAF and, to a much larger degree in IAF, these have killed a lot of pilots. On the other-hand US/Western sources come with heavy conditionals. Therefore Pakistan would do well to JV with Turkey, Indonesia and such true friends to become independent in aircraft production.

Nah I've never heard a single instance of complains regarding chinese when it comes to Maintainance,
i mostly came across the Russian ones.
we have been pretty satisfied with the Chinese jets.
Remember we even tweaked the F-6 jet to fire sidewinders, installed martin bake ejection seats and even an italian radar.
so the Chinese ones are even Tweakable.
Something we cant enjoy with American products.