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What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

A naval air arm, already exists. I think what you meant is a Naval Fighter Arm, with dedicated fighters under the Navy.

Given the grievances of the other forces against PAF, it makes sense why PA has built up it's air defence capabilities, and continues to do so. IF the PN were to ask for dedicated squadrons under their command, that would be understandably justified.

The more I think about it, the more PN fighter squadrons makes sense to me.

Yes i meant Naval Fighter Air Wing in presence of which, PAF will be able to do its job in a better way and PN can synchronize well with its sea based fleet and employ tactics envisioned to their area of concerns. PAF can supervise the process of inducting a separate fighter air arm and training of the pilots thus minimizing the resources cost. Later on, joint studies can be conducted to develop the tactics and missions curriculum with the combined input from both forces.

ok what makes a jet, an air superiority fighter jet ?????

i mean, if a jet(JH-7B) is loaded with BVR missiles, ew suite, a heavy radar, can't it become an air superiority jet ??

and if dog fighting is a must for air superiority role then F35 when inducted by an any Airforce will need another jet, to save it duirng an air to air fight as F35 is not a dog fighter,... so the air superiority role is empty ??

Those are a lot of addons which you've proposed in JH-7B. If it's a matter of 'IFs' and 'BUTs' then lots of things can be done to a Super Mushak also to turn it into a COIN platform but each aircraft is designed to fulfill specific roles and requirements and thus those characteristics during aircraft design are focused which maximizes those requirements achievements.
So in simpler words JH-7B can be configured for an air superiority role. But resources are required to make it optimize for that role but it would make JH-7 a different aircraft altogether which would be less feasible than to create a new aircraft with the needed set of requirements.
 
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Yes i meant Naval Fighter Air Wing in presence of which, PAF will be able to do its job in a better way and PN can synchronize well with its sea based fleet and employ tactics envisioned to their area of concerns. PAF can supervise the process of inducting a separate fighter air arm and training of the pilots thus minimizing the resources cost. Later on, joint studies can be conducted to develop the tactics and missions curriculum with the combined input from both forces.



Those are a lot of addons which you've proposed in JH-7B. If it's a matter of 'IFs' and 'BUTs' then lots of things can be done to a Super Mushak also to turn it into a COIN platform but each aircraft is designed to fulfill specific roles and requirements and thus those characteristics during aircraft design are focused which maximizes those requirements achievements.
So in simpler words JH-7B can be configured for an air superiority role. But resources are required to make it optimize for that role but it would make JH-7 a different aircraft altogether which would be less feasible than to create a new aircraft with the needed set of requirements.
* in the end better to get SU*35 or J-16s which don't need much of expensive upgrads & are ready for lock & fire ?


CHINESE AIR FORCE TAKES DELIVERY OF NEW J-16 STRIKE FIGHTERS
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Posted May 8, 2014
By the end of April 2014, the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of a regiment of J-16 multirole fighters, with an expected initial operational capability in late 2014. Marrying the survivability and air combat power of the Russian Su-30MKK airframe with the Xian JH-7A's versatile arsenal, the Shenyang J-16 strike fighter is notable for its full suite of fully indigenous Chinese guided munitions. While the Su-30MKK was restricted to firing only Russian-made antiship and bunker busting bombs, the domestically designed JH-7A carried a full range of Chinese super and subsonic anti-ship missiles, air to air missiles, satellite guided bombs, cruise missiles and electronic countermeasure (ECM) jammers. However, the JH-7 did not have radar guided air to air missiles, which makes it vulnerable to other fighters common in the region such as the F-16.

J-16%201601%20-%2031.12.13.jpg

Goneless via www.top81.cn

J-16

J-16, with production number #1601 painted on the right side of the cockpit, is the first production J-16 delivered to the PLAAF. The J-16 provides China with a comprehensive aerial combat and precision bomber capability in one airframe.


Publically available photos of the J-16 are hard to come by, given the work of Chinese censors. What we do know is that despite their similar missions, the J-16 is actually built on a different Su-27 Flanker airframe than the Su-30MKK (notable differences include the J-16's cropped vertical fin tails vs. the Su-30MKK's square topped vertical fin tails). The J-16 is the strike version of the J-11BS, a twin seat version of the Su-27K. The most important upgrade to the J-16 is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which is more powerful than the slotted array radars that the Su-30 and JH-7A have. The AESA radar allows the J-16 to intercept enemy aircraft at longer ranges than either of its predecessors, and to attack multiple surface targets simultaneously. The AESA radar would also be datalinked to other Chinese platforms, including unmanned vehicles, to increase their situational awareness.
J-16%201612.jpg

lt.cjdby.net

J-16 Multirole Fighter

The J-16 strike fighter is based off of the Su-30MKK Flanker. Having a two person crew allows for a dedicated weapons sensor officer, seated in the cockpit's rear, to focus on finding targets, managing electronic warfare and controlling precision guided munitions.

This addition offers a wider set of options for Chinese military planners. Multirole fighters like the Tornado IDS, F-15E Strike Eagle and now the J-16 are well suited for the challenges of high tech conventional warfare, by combining the air combat capability of fighters with the guided munitions capability of bombers. The J-16's survivability and long range means it can match and even outnumber enemy fighters before going on to bomb their airfields, command centers and ships. And on the defensive, the J-16 can switch to a full air to air missile load to defend Chinese airspace against enemy aircraft.

General characteristics

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 21.9 m (72 ft)
  • Wingspan: 14.7 m (48.25 ft)
  • Height: 6.36 m (20.85 ft)
  • Wing area: 62.04 m2 (667.80 ft2)
  • Empty weight: 17,700 kg (38,600 lb)
  • Loaded weight: 26,000 kg (58,000 lb)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 35,000 kg (77,000 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × WS-10A afterburning turbofans
    • Dry thrust: 89.17 kN (20,050 lbf) each
    • Thrust with afterburner: 135 kN (33,000 lbf) each
Performance

Armament

  • 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
  • Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:

Beast in arena
Could be time & money saver device paf needs so long ?
 
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but can any of heavy fighter jet do this take off from land ?
super takeoff of SU*35 , the fortress in the air .
 
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@Irfan Baloch ,you realy dont have much of a choice,either Chinese or Chinese.
When do you want or need this fighter jet?
Can you wait another 15 years,your options might increase?
 
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Sorry to poke fellows but Which Twin engine fighter in your list (in numbers which Pakistan can afford) can cross india's multiple defensive layers of great coverage of SAMs (S-400, S-300, S-125 Neva/Pechora, Akash Missile, Trishul, SPYDER SAM, PAD and AAD, Barak-8 /MR-SAM Program) & Huge number of Fighter Planes (SU30, Mig 29, Mirage 2000) etc and do multiple deep strike mission and come back safely?
 
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Sorry to poke fellows but Which Twin engine fighter in your list (in numbers which Pakistan can afford) can cross india's multiple defensive layers of great coverage of SAMs (S-400, S-300, S-125 Neva/Pechora, Akash Missile, Trishul, SPYDER SAM, PAD and AAD, Barak-8 /MR-SAM Program) & Huge number of Fighter Planes (SU30, Mig 29, Mirage 2000) etc and do multiple deep strike mission and come back safely?
SU-35m with modification's of J17 LEVEL 32 in numbers can at least destroy half of the equipment mentioned in your post at any time .
 
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@Irfan Baloch ,you realy dont have much of a choice,either Chinese or Chinese.
When do you want or need this fighter jet?
Can you wait another 15 years,your options might increase?

Depends on how situation evolves in our east and south. If Rafale-M ends up in Arabian Sea or Naval strength of India is propped up by US significantly, it could be real soon to restore balance. How soon TFX can be expected to be ready for export?
 
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Depends on how situation evolves in our east and south. If Rafale-M ends up in Arabian Sea or Naval strength of India is propped up by US significantly, it could be real soon to restore balance. How soon TFX can be expected to be ready for export?
Probably 10 to 15 years(if ever)
 
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Probably 10 to 15 years(if ever)

Hmmm....I think PAF has already started looking at options and may take a decision close to 2020-2022 with deliveries close to 2023-2025. About the same time when 5th Gen will appear to our east. If TFX development doesn't hit a snag, it might be available for evaluation by 2021-2022 (still under development though). I would love to see it as option.
 
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Probably 10 to 15 years(if ever)
if ever ever & ever & itS coming from a nation which has no or above no level of experience in fighter jet making industry ?
wow !

Hmmm....I think PAF has already started looking at options and may take a decision close to 2020-2022 with deliveries close to 2023-2025. About the same time when 5th Gen will appear to our east. If TFX development doesn't hit a snag, it might be available for evaluation by 2021-2022 (still under development though). I would love to see it as option.
I.don't know about that TFX thing will ever be produced in numbers or it will vanish in the dark pages of the fighter jet history ?
but I'm sure.,.by 2020 our expected enemy will have a thunderous airforce maybe PAKFA & good support fighter jets like Rafael S in good numbers ?
so then what we will.be doing.then waiting and imagining for a drawing called TFX to defend us in our skies ?lolzz
 
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Hi,

Thank you for your comments----. 8 F16's---supposedly at 150 million a piece----. That is 1.2 billion dollars----.

Secondly---going by your strong defense comments---before----2005 when pakistan was ready to purchase 72 F16---the tone of the opponent was different---the moment it finds out that the order has been cancelled---the tone and relationship changed.

Pakistan cannot be judged on standard nation management----due to the fact that its opponent is almost 5 times itsd size---just like Israel has a massive number of opponents to face---.

It all begins with a timely procurement of equipment---in a stair step progression---. When you buy the Mirage 2K ---20 years ago----then 20 years later you do not need to worry equipping the air force with a similar capability aircraft---that put us now at 20 years + 5 years for integration----a total of 25 years behind the clock.




Hi,

The time wasted in prayers was the reason that Genghis Khan corned the Shah's infantry in a narrow area.

As Shah missed the opportunity by 1/2 a day or maybe by a few hours----as is estimated---the infantry could not be positioned to form battle line to ITS STRENGTH-----.

For fundos---it is very difficult to swallow that fact----.


No matter how we solve this equation, the JH7-B comes out a winner;

However I'd like to add another domain; i.e manufacturing.
Right now PAF is only focused on manufacturing the single engine JF17;
JF17 may or mayNOT grow out to be the evolving platform that we want.
Thus there is a need to diversify in the manufacturing domain as well.

Secondly I yourself or someone who knows , to comment on the ukranian capability regarding the RD93
I heard they made some breakthroughs ?
 
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No matter how we solve this equation, the JH7-B comes out a winner;

However I'd like to add another domain; i.e manufacturing.
Right now PAF is only focused on manufacturing the single engine JF17;
JF17 may or mayNOT grow out to be the evolving platform that we want.
Thus there is a need to diversify in the manufacturing domain as well.

Secondly I yourself or someone who knows , to comment on the ukranian capability regarding the RD93
I heard they made some breakthroughs ?
How JH7 B is the winner ?
 
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if ever ever & ever & itS coming from a nation which has no or above no level of experience in fighter jet making industry ?
wow !
Wow what,what do you know about Turkish aerospace industries?
The only thing we lack is an indigenous engine,all the rest can be provided by Turkish companies.
I said ''if ever'' because of cancelations,we tend to cancel alot of projects.
Ever heard of TAI Turkiye,Aselsan Turkiye?
Request Rejected
ASELSAN | Reliable Technology - HomePage
So,calm down,you are not talking to a fanboy.
 
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if ever ever & ever & itS coming from a nation which has no or above no level of experience in fighter jet making industry ?
wow !


I.don't know about that TFX thing will ever be produced in numbers or it will vanish in the dark pages of the fighter jet history ?
but I'm sure.,.by 2020 our expected enemy will have a thunderous airforce maybe PAKFA & good support fighter jets like Rafael S in good numbers ?
so then what we will.be doing.then waiting and imagining for a drawing called TFX to defend us in our skies ?lolzz

Let's wait till appropriate time. Our nation wasn't born building aircraft either. I don't think fifth Gen aircraft will appear in South Asia before 2025.
 
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@Irfan Baloch ,you realy dont have much of a choice,either Chinese or Chinese.
When do you want or need this fighter jet?
Can you wait another 15 years,your options might increase?
I agree that Chinese jets seem most probable options
but why you think in 15 years options will increase? you are pointing at your own project? if so there will be T-129 like restrictions on us.
 
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