What script does Languages in Pakistan use?

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Thanks for the detailed post. So are Pashtuns allowed to immigrate to Israel like other jewish people around the world?

I dont know, but I think so - Jewish people already fled the country; and there is only one remaining Jew as of now. They would probably need to convert to Juadism to migrate.

 

[Sugarcane]

Your pretty wrong there, people can only understand BASIC Urdu and not pure Urdu. Pure Urdu is heavily Persianized while Hindi draws portions of it from Sanskript. Try understanding Hindi news.

It's the use of Persian words which makes Urdu different from Hindi, otherwise the "BASIC Urdu" will become BASIC Hindi. Anyway as i said, it's not just about vocabulary, whole grammar and construction of sentences is Persian with one exception. Except the Anthem, how many Urdu poems are there where only "e" is used to make sentences? If the grammar of Anthem is normal thing in Urdu than there should be tons of poetry like that.

 

[Armstrong]

It's the use of Persian words which makes Urdu different from Hindi, otherwise the "BASIC Urdu" will become BASIC Hindi. Anyway as i said, it's not about just vocabulary, grammar is also Persian. Except the Anthem, how many Urdu poems are there where only "e" is used to make sentences? If the grammar of Anthem is normal thing in Urdu than there should be tons of poetry like that.

Urdu waisee kahan aap ko aatiii hai ?

Mutlab to Mutbul aur Paaon ko Pairrr kehnaa tou koi aap seh seekheiii !

 

[Sugarcane]

Urdu waisee kahan aap ko aatiii hai ?

Mutlab to Mutbul aur Paaon ko Pairrr kehnaa tou koi aap seh seekheiii !

Butt sahib - Pair is part of Urdu vocabulary, mutbul will also become sooner or later. In short Urdu will become the way Greater Punjab will speak not the other way.

 

[krash]

My mistake that's not called adverb, but whatever these words "(ka/kay/ki/raha/rahi/rahay/hay" etc.) are called are fundamental part of construction of sentences in Urdu. While "e" is used in Persian for this purpose. The myth of anthem being in Urdu can be busted easily by going on road and finding out how many people are able to explain the whole anthem accurately which should be quite easy considering everyone in Pakistan can understand Urdu.

No they are not. Start reading Urdu poetry or proper Urdu literature, you'll know what's what of what. Pick any famous Urdu poem and you'll find about a dozen instances of "e" being used to denote possession e.g. Shikwa, this btw I've already explained twice before. Furthermore, the omission of raha/rahi/rahay/hay is also found frivolously in Urdu poetry e.g. "Chand meri zameen, Phul mera watan".

I don't know anything about Persian, yet I am able to perfectly understand the Anthem except the word "Kishwar" and the verse "Jaan e Istiqbal". Still, while you're at it, going around on the road asking people if they understand what is being said in the Anthem, kindly do also ask them if they understand what's being said in Shikwa. Then go ask an English speaker if he understands what Shakespeare has written. There is a difference roughly the size of the Sun between what is literature and what is colloquial....

It's the use of Persian words which makes Urdu different from Hindi, otherwise the "BASIC Urdu" will become BASIC Hindi. Anyway as i said, it's not just about vocabulary, whole grammar and construction of sentences is Persian with one exception. Except the Anthem, how many Urdu poems are there where only "e" is used to make sentences? If the grammar of Anthem is normal thing in Urdu than there should be tons of poetry like that.

Errr.......there is.....you just haven't read it......

 

[dadeechi]

I dont know, but I think so - Jewish people already fled the country; and there is only one remaining Jew as of now. They would probably need to convert to Juadism to migrate.

Fled which country and where is this one jew?

 

[Sugarcane]

No they are not. Start reading Urdu poetry or proper Urdu literature, you'll know what's what of what. Pick any famous Urdu poem and you'll find about a dozen instances of "e" being used to denote possession e.g. Shikwa, this btw I've already explained twice before. Furthermore, the omission of raha/rahi/rahay/hay is also found frivolously in Urdu poetry e.g. "Chand meri zameen, Phul mera watan".

I have read Urdu poetry and literature and knows very well that "e" is used but haven't come across any poem other than anthem which is all totally based on Persian grammar and script, example you quoted is wrong "meri" "mera" are there to form basic structure of Urdu sentence so are rest of it, By the way almost all the compound words with "e" are Persian.

I don't know anything about Persian, yet I am able to perfectly understand the Anthem except the word "Kishwar" and the verse "Jaan e Istiqbal". Still, while you're at it, going around on the road asking people if they understand what is being said in the Anthem, kindly do also ask them if they understand what's being said in Shikwa. Then go ask an English speaker if he understands what Shakespeare has written. There is a difference of the Sun between what is literature and what is colloquial....

There is difference between not being able to grasp what poet meant and not being able to understand because of use of borrowed uncommon vocabulary and grammar. Anyway you can test it other way, show the anthem and some other Urdu poem to Persian speaker, the one which he/she can understand better than Urdu speaker will of course obviously will be closer to Persian than Urdu.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Fled which country and where is this one jew?

Fled Afghanistan and the one jew is in Kabul and he tends to a Synagogue.

 

[dadeechi]

Fled Afghanistan and the one jew is in Kabul and he tends to a Synagogue.

When did this happen and where did they flew? to Israel? So not all Pashtuns got converted to Buddhism and Islam? Were there Jewish Pashtuns until recent years?

 

[Samandri]

Yes you can say that Pashtu, Sindhi, Punjabi (shahmukhi), Baluchi and Arabic you can write same way with minus or plus few alphabets.

Pashto is written in modified Arabic alphabets, not Persian.......while Urdu is written in Persian Alphabets which itself are derived from Arabic.

Is Pashto in Afghanistan also written in Persian script?

No

Thats a no-brainer question; Pashtuns follow Islam - and hold dear; Islam above all; even though they follow Jewish laws.

.

They dont follow Jewish laws............

 

[dadeechi]

Pashto is written in modified Arabic alphabets, not Persian.......while Urdu is written in Persian Alphabets which itself are derived from Arabic.


No


They dont follow Jewish laws............

How different are Arabic and Persian alphabets. For an outsider like me, both look the same.

Is there a easy way to identify whether it's Persian or Arabic?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Pashto is written in modified Arabic alphabets, not Persian.......while Urdu is written in Persian Alphabets which itself are derived from Arabic.


No


They dont follow Jewish laws............

Half of it is identical to Jewish law.

When did this happen and where did they flew? to Israel? So not all Pashtuns got converted to Buddhism and Islam? Were there Jewish Pashtuns until recent years?

Happened from a time span of creation of Israel to the Afghan civil war. They fled mostly to Iran and Israel.

 

[krash]

I have read Urdu poetry and literature and knows very well that "e" is used but haven't come across any poem other than anthem which is all totally based on Persian grammar and script, example you quoted is wrong "meri" "mera" are there to form basic structure of Urdu sentence so are rest of it, By the way almost all the compound words with "e" are Persian.

There you go again. The script and the grammar of the anthem is perfectly suited in Urdu just as well. The only two reasons you have thus far given of it not being the case is the use of "e" and the absence of "ka/kay/ki/raha/rahi/rahay/hay". First you said that the use of "e" made it Persian, then when you realized that "e" is frivolously used in Urdu as well you started demanding a poem which used only "e" for denoting possession. So now, on the one hand you agree that "e" is used abundantly in Urdu and yet, at the same time, you claim the anthem being in Persian because there is abundant use of "e" in it. You ask for a poem that only uses "e" to show possession where even the anthem, by your own admittance, does not use only "e" for it. Remember that "ka" in the middle there? So what is it? If you use only "e" then it's Persian and if you use "e" with a "ka" then it's Urdu? Settling the issue of the usage of "ka/kay/ki" i.e. words denoting possession, I had moved on to the matter of the auxiliary verbs "raha/rahi/raha/hay" because they are a completely different part of speech than e/ka/ki, etc. For that I gave you a very famous example where the stanza is completely free of any such auxiliary verbs and you dismissed it because there were words denoting possession in them i.e. "mera" and "meri".......How does the usage of "e" for possession denotion in a sentence negate the fact that there are no auxiliary verbs used!? Mate, you are all over the place....

Furthermore, all the compound words with "e" might be Persian but they are not just Persian any more. Urdu imported them a long time ago. Just like Persian imported "Arz, Quwah, Akhuwah, Saltanat, Hilal, Maazi, Haal," from Arabic. So what is it? Is the Anthem in Persian and Arabic?

There is difference between not being able to grasp what poet meant and not being able to understand because of use of borrowed uncommon vocabulary and grammar. Anyway you can test it other way, show the anthem and some other Urdu poem to Persian speaker, the one which he/she can understand better than Urdu speaker will of course obviously will be closer to Persian than Urdu.

Not being able to understand because of the use of uncommon vocabulary and grammar is exactly what I am talking about. You keep trying to pit literature against prose. Let's test it shall we? The following is a stanza from Shikwa (a very famous Urdu poem),

"Jurrat Aamoz Miri Taab-e-Sakhun Hai Mujh Ko
Shikwa Allah Se Khakam Badahan Hai Mujh Ko"

Look, there's "hai" and "ko" in it......but then it also has "e" in it.......
Anyway, kindly find me the regular Urdu speakers who can actually understand what Iqbal has said in this stanza. Deciphering what is said in the anthem compared to this poem is a joke for an Urdu speaker. We are talking about the literature of a language with a wealth of words and grammatical deviations such as Urdu's....

ps: For people who might want to listen to the whole poem is Nusrat's amazing style,

Even Iqbal's introduction by Nusrat is beyond Urdu prose.

Or maybe you'd prefer Sabri Brothers,

 

[Jaggu]

Quite different (as the below image shows). I can totally believe that Shahmukhi was the more common script pre-1947 given that the Sikh Empire even at its peak of Ranjit Singh used Persian (with its perso-arabic script like Shahmukhi) as the court languagscripten today of course Shahmukhi is more common given that Pakistan has way more Punjabis than India.

During Ranjit Singhs period Fasri was the Lingua Franca. When the British took over they replaced Farsi and imposed Urdu on Punjab.

the late 1800s saw a Muslims Hindus of South Asia getting nationalistic. This nationalism became visible in the language movements of Hindi and Urdu in UP. The Hindus promoted Hindi and Muslims promoted Urdu.

Seeing this many Hindus influenced by Arya Samaj movement in Punjab began promoting Hindi aswell. Urdu was likewise promoted by the Muslims.

Sikhs who had just lost political power a few decades earlier saw their Punjabi identity as the unifying factor to which Punjabi people should unite under instead of Hindi and Urdu which were UP languages. Sikhs began promoting Punjabi language in the Gurmukhi script which was based on the ancient Landa script of Punjab.

Sindh also had its own indigenous script. The Kashmiri language also had its own script as did the region of Jammu/Mirpur dogri areas. These scripts are now extinct. Gurmukhi is now the only indigenous surviving script of North India which has not been swallowed up by Hindi and Urdu.

 

[Sugarcane]

There you go again. The script and the grammar of the anthem is perfectly suited in Urdu just as well. The only two reasons you have thus far given of it not being the case is the use of "e" and the absence of "ka/kay/ki/raha/rahi/rahay/hay". First you said that the use of "e" made it Persian, then when you realized that "e" is frivolously used in Urdu as well you started demanding a poem which used only "e" for denoting possession. So now, on the one hand you agree that "e" is used abundantly in Urdu and yet, at the same time, you claim the anthem being in Persian because there is abundant use of "e" in it. You ask for a poem that only uses "e" to show possession where even the anthem, by your own admittance, does not use only "e" for it. Remember that "ka" in the middle there? So what is it? If you use only "e" then it's Persian and if you use "e" with a "ka" then it's Urdu? Settling the issue of the usage of "ka/kay/ki" i.e. words denoting possession, I had moved on to the matter of the auxiliary verbs "raha/rahi/raha/hay" because they are a completely different part of speech than e/ka/ki, etc. For that I gave you a very famous example where the stanza is completely free of any such auxiliary verbs and you dismissed it because there were words denoting possession in them i.e. "mera" and "meri".......How does the usage of "e" for possession denotion in a sentence negate the fact that there are no auxiliary verbs used!? Mate, you are all over the place....

Furthermore, all the compound words with "e" might be Persian but they are not just Persian any more. Urdu imported them a long time ago. Just like Persian imported "Arz, Quwah, Akhuwah, Saltanat, Hilal, Maazi, Haal," from Arabic. So what is it? Is the Anthem in Persian and Arabic?

Not being able to understand because of the use of uncommon vocabulary and grammar is exactly what I am talking about. You keep trying to pit literature against prose. Let's test it shall we? The following is a stanza from Shikwa (a very famous Urdu poem),

"Jurrat Aamoz Miri Taab-e-Sakhun Hai Mujh Ko
Shikwa Allah Se Khakam Badahan Hai Mujh Ko"

Look, there's "hai" and "ko" in it......but then it also has "e" in it.......
Anyway, kindly find me the regular Urdu speakers who can actually understand what Iqbal has said in this stanza. Deciphering what is said in the anthem compared to this poem is a joke for an Urdu speaker. We are talking about the literature of a language with a wealth of words and grammatical deviations such as Urdu's....

ps: For people who might want to listen to the whole poem is Nusrat's amazing style,

Even Iqbal's introduction by Nusrat is beyond Urdu prose.

Or maybe you'd prefer Sabri Brothers,

If all the Persian vocabulary and Persian grammar/structure is used than why it's somehow offensive to call the product as Persian? Persian had been in our region (especially in what today is called Pakistan) for centuries, our poets used to do poetry in Persian even their work of Urdu is heavily influenced by Persian while Urdu brought by British,

I can keep trying to tell you that other example you are bring have the structure which is not Persian and we can keep running in circles without agreeing. I also used to claim what you are saying (even on PDF), it's only when i came to Iran and learned Persian than realized that calling it Persian makes more sense than Urdu.