What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

[Surenas]

Wow, you are even more retarded then i thought.... how is the advancements Iran makes in the space program or in its BM program related to the economy ? you have IQ of a pinguin

Mod Edit..........How is that related to our economy? Any idea how much the regime spends on its missile program? At least post under your real name............

 

[SOHEIL]

some secular retards ...

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Please lets keep this thread clean of insults and name calling. Thanks.

 

[Arasteh]

Donkey. How is that related to our economy? Any idea how much the regime spends on its missile program? At least post under your real name, coward.

Mod Edit
Second... Iran has a 100+billion income yearly, how much you think the gov spends on the missile program ? you think they spend half of our income ? LMAo.. do you know how economy works ?
the space and BM program are no more then 5 bilion

 

[Serpentine]

From now on,every one who insults other ones, won't only see his/her posts edited.

Stick to topic and talk like a human being.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Ok I have a question. Why do some people think the economy of Iran is so bad? Now if we are talking about social freedoms and such then fine, but economy wise we are not doing terribly. Our economy is better then all but one of our neighbours and if God willing sanctions get lifted, I believe we will soar to much higher heights.

 

[Arasteh]

Many people dnt know anything about how the economy works yet they come and comment on it. What a joke

Ok I have a question. Why do some people think the economy of Iran is so bad? Now if we are talking about social freedoms and such then fine, but economy wise we are not doing terribly. Our economy is better then all but one of our neighbours and if God willing sanctions get lifted, I believe we will soar to much higher heights.

sanctions are motivation for us to build our dear country

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Ok I have a question. Why do some people think the economy of Iran is so bad? ... if God willing sanctions get lifted, I believe we will soar to much higher heights.

Sanction is the direct result of miss-calculating the strength of so called "enemies" and utilizing a wrong foreign policy. Now has resulted in a state which is one of the most isolated countries in the world. The question is not why the economy is weak. The question is why should we face the sanctions!

This is like a young 50kg wrestler who enters the arena of 95kg competitors and stubbornly wants to see his failure.

Although I accept that we are not in a sudden economic failure, I do not find it reasonable to compare Iran with countries like troubled Iraq, Afghanistan or more than 20 years dictator-shipped Turkmenistan by Nazarbayev.

I suggest a list of countries with population comparable with or less than population of Iran.

Country: population
Egypt: 83,804,000
Turkey: 74,724,269
Thailand: 65,926,261
South Africa: 51,770,560
Korea: 50,004,441
Malaysia: 29,580,000
Saudi Arabia: 28,376,355
United Arab Emirates: 8,264,070

GDP comparision (Data from World Bank):

Korea and Turkey seems to has similar economy structure with acceptable diversity in economy. Saudi Arabia boosts his economy by current oil prices. Lets to zoom more without figures from these three countries.

The government of Iran has decided since 2009 to be non-transparent in terms of official stats. I doubt, one covers his achievements if his performance is glorious!

Considering the projected economical contraction of Iran in 2013, South Africa, United Arab Emirates and Thailand all seems are going to completely out-perform Iran in term of GDP.

Malaysia with current trend will pass Iran in few years. Egypt now is in decision making. Troubled and ... future will speak about.

 

[The SiLent crY]

It is very interesting for me to know to how extend this topic is popular within Iranians.

All discussion about:

1. secularism,
2. pros & cons of secularism,
3. the readiness of the nation,
4. the importance of religion in diplomacy,
5. contradicts of religion and politic,
6. pros & cons of religious government,
7. personal freedom, social freedom, religion and secularism
8. secularism and anti-religion-ism
9. history of secularism in Iran and miss-understandings
10. secularism and minorities both religional and ethnical
11. secularism, religion and democracy

are all welcomed. In addition posts from international members are pleased, too.

Please do not hesitate to post any opposed idea and arguments. Please avoid any insult to any religion, races and countries which is clearly against FORUM RULES AND REGULATIONS and will definitely followed by treatment of MODs.

I myself believe that religion is a good factor in a government if the whole nation believe it and perform it otherwise it won't be useful like what you see in our current government and people .

I do agree that we need a government that is mostly separated from religion but if this secularism want to make Iran a puppet and dependent country like all the previous ones then the blood people pay for it would be a waste .

I think we need a secular government that ends all the limitations that the religion has brought for our country , in this case no one would be forced to do what he doesn't believe and everyone would do what he wants .

All the Iranians know the advantages of a Secular government and there is no need to write about them but the question is that , Can a Secular government in a rich country like Iran that has located in ME stay independent ? could the previous secular regimes do that ?

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Thanks S00R3NA, you are one of those I wait for his ideas. A religious one but a patriot.

I myself believe that religion is a good factor in a government if the whole nation believe it and perform it otherwise it won't be useful like what you see in our current government and people.

I know you are talking about majority of shia, but in a larger scope, is it possible that all the nation believe a single ideology?

I do agree that we need a government that is mostly separated from religion but if this secularism want to make Iran a puppet and dependent country like all the previous ones then the blood people pay for it would be a waste .

This should be the way a patriot thinks, proves your highness. I do not deny our previous governments as dictatorships were puppets. As they have no root within the nation, they had to be dependent on others. Secularism was not the reason of that dependence, the dictators are responsible for. They just abused the concept of secularism to fight with people personal ideologies.

I found my country in danger, and I am in strife to save the same country that people have given their blood for. I am not sure this is the true answer. But I am sure if we cover our problems, the same puppet makers will solve it for us.

I think we need a secular government that ends all the limitations that the religion has brought for our country, in this case no one would be forced to do what he doesn't believe and everyone would do what he wants.

So do you think a change could be the solution? Our problem is that we has found it costly, too!

All the Iranians know the advantages of a Secular government and there is no need to write about them but the question is that , Can a Secular government in a rich country like Iran that has located in ME stay independent ? could the previous secular regimes do that ?

Those "only in name" secular regimes were obsolete dictatorships. A dictatorship never could defend the interest of his nation as he finds that against his own interests. Norway as an oil rich secular independent state proves it is possible.

 

[The SiLent crY]

Mod Edit..........How is that related to our economy? Any idea how much the regime spends on its missile program? At least post under your real name............

Hi dude .

I think your avatar might bring tension amongst Iranian members , please change it .

Good Luck .

 

[TurAr]

I myself believe that religion is a good factor in a government if the whole nation believe it and perform it otherwise it won't be useful like what you see in our current government and people .

I do agree that we need a government that is mostly separated from religion but if this secularism want to make Iran a puppet and dependent country like all the previous ones then the blood people pay for it would be a waste .

I think we need a secular government that ends all the limitations that the religion has brought for our country , in this case no one would be forced to do what he doesn't believe and everyone would do what he wants .

All the Iranians know the advantages of a Secular government and there is no need to write about them but the question is that , Can a Secular government in a rich country like Iran that has located in ME stay independent ? could the previous secular regimes do that ?

Can i ask what do you mean by independence? It would be nice if you can explain it with giving examples: which secular country is independent, which one is not? Why?

Thanks.

 

[Serpentine]

Can i ask what do you mean by independence? It would be nice if you can explain it with giving examples: which secular country is independent, which one is not? Why?

Thanks.

If S00r3na allows me to say my opinion regarding this:

I think by independent, he means that country shouldn't be under strong influence in political decision makings from major powers.Independence doesn't mean not having economical and military cooperation with others.For example, in my personal opinion, Canada is a secular advanced country, but it barely has any saying in world affairs and it exactly follows what U.S and UK do.You can barely find any examples contradicting the one I mentioned for Canada.

Independence means deciding what's best for your country, not what's best for others.

 

[TurAr]

If S00r3na allows me to say my opinion regarding this:

I think by independent, he means that country shouldn't be under strong influence in political decision makings from major powers.Independence doesn't mean mean not having economical and military cooperation with others.For example, in my personal opinion, Canada is a secular advanced country, but it barely has any saying in world affairs and it exactly follows what U.S and UK do.You can barely find any examples contradicting the one I mentioned for Canada.

There is a thin line between foreign influence and independence. Every single country on earth is shaping some of its policies due to foreign influence. USA, as the most influential country is affecting the policy making process of almost every country, including Iran.

With that being said, i see that many Iranians tend to think their country is independent, and labelling others as not being so. But the thing is, according to their definition of independence, Iran is not independent either. Iran's economy has taken a huge damage from the foreign influence a.k.a. sanctions, and it is almost completely isolated.

Independence means deciding what's best for your country, not what's best for others.

Do you think what Iranian politicians are doing right now is the best for the country? Do you think, Iran is independent?

 

[The SiLent crY]

I know you are talking about majority of shia, but in a larger scope, is it possible that all the nation believe a single ideology?

Absolutely not , I think during the revolution and a decade after that we had that situation in Iran and majority believed in shiism , but nowadays every thing has changed , Firstly people are not that religious like 20 years ago , Secondly the youth ( especially educated ones ) don't have similar views like what their fathers or grandfathers had and most Iranian regular people have learned to respect other ideologies , views , religions and cultures and none of them ( the regular ones ) is gonna to fight and start a war for religion and such stuffs in these days .

As I said in previous post , Religion is good and completely useful and can help a country to advance ( as all you see in Islam is encouraging people to trying hard , studying and not giving up ) IF all the people believe in it and perform it in both their lives and work but all we see in Iran is using the religion for personal interests , the government or in other word all the people in Iran use the religion as a tool .

At the end add that Iran needs a secular government which respects all the religions , cultures and etc . The main religion can be what the majority believes like other countries in the world .

This should be the way a patriot thinks, proves your highness. I do not deny our previous governments as dictatorships were puppets. As they have no root within the nation, they had to be dependent on others. Secularism was not the reason of that dependence, the dictators are responsible for. They just abused the concept of secularism to fight with people personal ideologies.

I found my country in danger, and I am in strife to save the same country that people have given their blood for. I am not sure this is the true answer. But I am sure if we cover our problems, the same puppet makers will solve it for us.

I think a rich and important country like Iran will never be able to have an independent government , The current one that is a religious government which had the goal of reaching independence but you've seen what the superpowers did to stop it and a secular one will be treated like this if doesn't obey for them .

In my opinion if any secular government takes power in Iran , It will have hard days to choose independence which brings the superpowers' pressure or dependence and being a tool . ( For this issue I ask people to read the history of Iran in the last 200 years ) .

So do you think a change could be the solution? Our problem is that we has found it costly, too!

I think Islam is good and respectable but it can't be useful for a nation that doesn't care about it and use it as a tool . I think we need a government that is mostly separated from religion ( not completely as you still see lots of people believe in religion and cutting all ties will bring tension in society ) . Just look at some of the problems : Most of people that are in charge ave been chosen because of their religious beliefs not their proficiency , Our tourism has been destroyed because of the limitations of religious laws , Millions of talented Iranians and brains have left Iran because of the Muslim extremists , no one invests in our country and our investor working in Turkey and Gulf states because of our government's crazy limitations and politics and ...

Religion in a personal belief and shouldn't be a part of the government and ... . It doesn't matter who you are , what you believe , where you have come from , all matters is that , You are an Iranian and have to do your job or duty as well as possible , In this case Iran will advance .

Its embarrassing to see around 7 millions of our countrymen abroad and calling them betrayers , Hypocrite and ... . We have to prepare the country to help them come back and work together to build Iran which is not gonna happen by such government .

I'm a Muslim and have lived in a religious family but unlike my grandparents and parents I respect all other religions , ideologies and have no problem with them and apart from these stuffs use Islam in my own life not forcing people to do what I believe .

A friend of mine once told me that " Heaven is not forced and some people might not want to go there but the government wants to make every single person Muslim to send him to heaven " .

Those "only in name" secular regimes were obsolete dictatorships. A dictatorship never could defend the interest of his nation as he finds that against his own interests. Norway as an oil rich secular independent state proves it is possible.

I think if a secular government wanted to be like them , I'd prefer the current system .