What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

[Ir.Tab.]

None. Thats what I'm trying to say. There is no 'atheism'.

"Not having beliefs in anything" could be a believe for itself!

 

[Surenas]

"Not having belief in anything" could be a belief for itself!

You are playing a word game now. Atheism isn't a believe.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Here is a map of secular nations (blue) versus nations with a state religion (red). It is interesting that almost all of the nations with a state religion are Islamic countries.

There are countries among blue colored part which their government is non-religious but they are not that free to be called as secular.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

There are countries among blue colored part which their government is non-religious but they are not that free to be called as secular.

All secular means is that religion does not interfere with government. It has nothing to do with freedom or democracy.

 

[jayron]

the only thing holding back Iran and its people is the government. most iranians I have met in US are secular and liberal.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

All secular means is that religion does not interfere with government. It has nothing to do with freedom or democracy.

True, in fact on the bases of the performance of some secular countries, secularism is projected as anti-religion in Iran. These two concepts ie. secularism and anti-religion-ism are not inevitably associated. That was what I tried to say on post #363 but apparently I have made a wrong statement.

 

[jayron]

The Iranians I know don't have typical Muslim names but names like Mitra, Novak and Nariman. Does it mean they have converted or just like to have Ancient Persian names?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

True, in fact on the bases of the performance of some secular countries, secularism is projected as anti-religion in Iran. These two concepts ie. secularism and anti-religion-ism are not inevitably associated. That was what I tried to say on post #363 but apparently I have made a wrong statement.

Yes. There are some countries which I would classify as both "secular" and "anti-religion". For example France with the headscarf (hejab) ban, which I do not believe is right. France took a problem they have, which is too much immigration, and dealt with it using the wrong solution.

Ir.Tab. what do you think will be future of Iran? Are you hopeful for secularism? Also you say you want language rights. What type of solution do you think people of Azarbayjan want? Do you want language rights in your own provinces, or on a national level?

The Iranians I know don't have typical Muslim names but names like Mitra, Novak and Nariman. Does it mean they have converted or just like to have Ancient Persian names?

Well it depends. I would say the majority of Iranians have Muslim names. However the upper and middle classes and also Iranians outside of Iran tend to favour Iranian names.

 

[Serpentine]

A secular government alone is not the solution.A secular, independent democracy,is the solution.
Regarding political independence, we are one of the best in the world, but without democracy, it means nothing.
I would like to see a free, prosperous independent and powerful Iran that has a strong saying in world affairs.
Secular is not anti-religion, it means equal towards every religion and belief.I don't consider many governments around the world who claim to be secular as truly secular ones, don't want to mention the names since it may start new argument.

Iran has a potential to be among top 10 economies and most powerful countries in the world.Iran's society is differnt from many other ME countries, regarding religious beliefs and liberal fractions.Comparing to Turkey for example which is supposedly a secular government, I think (not sure) we have more secular and liberals in our country than even Turkey.

Don't get me wrong, religion has strong influence in Iran, but there are many people who believe in religion (mainly Islam) and at the same time, prefer a secular government to rule Iran.

Some of the conditions I prefer for a secular democracy in Iran:
-Hijab should be free, people should wear what they like, but should not be allowed to break moral and cultural taboos either.
-There should be one official language (Persian), but all ethnic groups should be able to learn their mother tongue in school and have free media and newspaper in their own language.
-All religious groups should be free to follow their belief,no matter what they believe in.
-An economy that leans toward privatization and government has less influence on economy which leads to a competitive economy.
And in the end, by secular, I don't mean adapting western values or culture, we have our own shining and beautiful culture and we can have a secular government within this cultural circle.We can grow in our own way, while respecting each and every human with any kind of belief.

 

[jaibi]

In my opinion it's unlikely, unless the world becomes more flexible and accepting to Iranians, the moderating influences would be shunned due to the perceived threat they impose to Iranian nationalism.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Yes. There are some countries which I would classify as both "secular" and "anti-religion". For example France with the headscarf (hejab) ban, which I do not believe is right. France took a problem they have, which is too much immigration, and dealt with it using the wrong solution.

I think a better example is North Korea. So we reach a new conclusion. while secularism is vital it is not enough. We should demand a "liberal secularism".

Ir.Tab. what do you think will be future of Iran? Are you hopeful for secularism?

The future of Iran will be very dark, if, instead of accepting and solving our problems, we cover them with extravagance religious attitudes, or in contrast with History, and mostly propaganda.

Also you say you want language rights. What type of solution do you think people of Azarbayjan want? Do you want language rights in your own provinces, or on a national level?

I has talked about all minorities rights up to now no need to say Azeries are the biggest minority in Iran. I want a developed democratic Iran in which every one is proud of his country. The danger of race supporters is not that much but when minorities see an offensive movement which endangers their heritages they might react harshly to it.

 

[Surenas]

The thing is that Iran has to reform politically, religiously and economically, or otherwise a lot of long-term damage would be caused.

1) Politically: this situation can't continue anymore. A large portion of Iran's society - moderates, reformists and secularists - are excluded from the political arena, while hardliners and conservatives are dominating every aspect of Iran's society. You simply can't exclude such significant portion of a society. There is no unity anymore, and if they don't reform, it could led to more schism.

2) Religiously: the most damage has been done to the religion itself. Islam, even if most Iranians still hold on to it, has been destroyed in Iran. The regimes links every decision they make to Islam, which has resulted in Iranians blaming everything on Islam. There are a lot of mullahs who are seeing this too, and therefore argue that secularism is not only a solution to protect the rights of minorities, but is also a way to 'save' religion in Iran.

3) Economically: face it. Our economy has been destroyed. We are excluded from world's market, and that will stay if we continue on this path, and don't give in to some demands of the west, even if that's unfair. We could develop economically, but not with this current condition.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

The thing is that Iran has to reform politically, religiously and economically, or otherwise a lot of long-term damage would be caused.

We need this type of discussions here. realistic one I mean.

1) Politically: this situation can't continue anymore. A large portion of Iran's society - moderates, reformists and secularists - are excluded from the political arena, while hardliners and conservatives are dominating every aspect of Iran's society. You simply can't exclude such significant portion of a society. There is no unity anymore, and if they don't reform, it could led to more schism.

Apparently regime counts on the fact that nation will never enters a harsh response and they have closed every path that leads to a soft change. Dangerous solution, isn't it? On both possible occasion it will cost a lot for the nation, unfortunately.

2) Religiously: the most damage has been done to the religion itself. Islam, even if most Iranians still hold on to it, has been destroyed in Iran. The regimes links to link every decision they make to Islam, which has resulted in Iranians blaming everything on Islam. There are a lot of mullahs who are seeing this too, and therefore argue that secularism is not only a solution to protect the rights of minorities, but is also a way to 'save' religion in Iran.

The semi middle ages in information age you mean. There are still lots of religious people in Iran, That is why I try to find a solution not violating personal life of people. Otherwise it wont be popular in Iran.

3) Economically: face it. Our economy has been destroyed. We are excluded from world's market, and that will stay if we continue on this path, and don't give in to some demands of the west, even if that's unfair. We could develop economically, but not with this current condition.

Apparently we will continue until we launch a human to the space! What will happen next I have no idea!

 

[Surenas]

Apparently regime counts on the fact that nation will never enters a harsh response and they have closed every path that leads to a soft change. Dangerous solution, isn't it? On both possible occasion it will cost a lot for the nation, unfortunately.

Yes, that's correct. The regime has closed a peaceful path towards reformism or change, and thats dangerous. If people think that they can change something peacefully, the only solution they can think of is violence. They could use violence to stop this, but for how long? How long can you continue on this path?

The semi middle ages in information age you mean. There are still lots of religious people in Iran, That is why I try to find a solution not violating personal life of people. Otherwise it wont be popular in Iran.

There are still a lot of religious people in Iran, but the youth is becoming more anti-religion by the day. Even conservative blogs are talking about this every day.

Apparently we will continue until we launch a human to the space! What will happen next I have no idea!

Yes! Launching monkeys to space and firing missiles! Regime's solution to all our problems.

 

[Arasteh]

Yes! Launching monkeys to space and firing missiles! Regime's solution to all our problems.

........................................... how is the advancements Iran makes in the space program or in its BM program related to the economy ? ................

Mod Edit: You said you will behave,so do it.