What is the biggest threat to Pakistan?

[Moonlight]

Me. I place Mullahism first. In politics the left is natural balance to the right. Mullahism destroyed the genuine left in Pakistan. It prevented the masses to seek change in the temporal world. Mullahism opposed social evolution which suited vested interests like the elites to continue in the plunder of the people. For instance Mullahists opposed land distribution. The elites have used Mullahism for over 70 years to shackle society. Today of course Mullahists have gained so much confidence that they now even threaten their past masters. Because they think they ought to be ruling the place. I know that kinda of sorts Marxists but then you always have useful insights in all political philosophies.

I would place Turkey as the best example because they are closest to us in culture. I would go for a uber-nationalist Pakistan.

Don’t you think this is just another form of corruption?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Cough Cough the same left under the PPP who plundered the wealth under ZA Bhutto and caused havoc to the economy thanks to Nationalization of key industries and plactating the feudals

Who said PPP ws left? Did Bhutto look to you 'left'?

 

[Yankee-stani]

Who said PPP ws left? Did Bhutto look to you 'left'?

Well Bhutto was big into pushing "Islamic Socialism" and the whole roti,kapri etc cant say the slogan as I dont speak Urdu at all that was pretty left wing ideals, or taking factories under state control,and blah blah

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Don’t you think this is just another form of corruption?

Very intelligent observation. I of course was sailing along within the restricted meaning of 'corruption'. But yes you indeed are right. That also can be construed as corruption in that it uses faith in a manner designed to profit.

Well Bhutto was big into pushing "Islamic Socialism" and the whole roti,kapri etc cant say the slogan as I dont speak Urdu at all that was pretty left wing ideals, or taking factories under state control,and blah blah

Slapping on Mao suit did not make Bhutto socialist. I think they call them 'champagne socialists' anymore then growing a beard makes you pious.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Slapping on Mao suit did not make Bhutto socialist. I think they call them 'champagne socialists' anymore then growing a beard makes you pious.[/QUOTE]

I mean taking over nascent and growing industry like banks and lending institutions as well as private and charitable trust schools and colleges is pretty socilaist and he did have a left wing ideals from his studies in the US as a Young adult

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Cough Cough the same left under the PPP who plundered the wealth under ZA Bhutto and caused havoc to the economy thanks to Nationalization of key industries and plactating the feudals

I would place Turkey as the best example because they are closest to us in culture. I would go for a uber-nationalist Pakistan.

Maybe a balance of Iran and Turkey is good for Pakistan at least the clerics in Iran promote science, and hi-tech[/QUOTE]

But Mullahism is even worse in Iran since Rouhani. Sectarianism as foreign policy is a very poor policy when you are surrounded by Sunni and Arab countries.

I say screw the Western Europeans, and Scandinavian's overated Multicultural s..iholes I prefer more nationalistic countries like China,Japan,Turkey,Azerbaijan,and Russia to a extent those Euro states are an extention of Yankee neo liberalism and ((them))

I agree as their foreign policy is just mirror of the US. However, we can look at their education and socialist policies for inspiration, esp if we plan to be an Islamic Social Welfare state.

Alleviation of poverty and providing economic/job growth should be priority.

Also we should prevent our poor, illiterate population from failing pray to TLP, PTM, TTP, LeJ, MQM, and recent reactionary anti-state policies of both N league and PPP.

Depends I see it like this as CPEC and the region slowly integrates the most cultural influence will be from Xinjiang,Gansu and Inner Mongolia so the heartland of Huis,Kazakhs, and Uighurs, tho Huis are just Han Muslims in general point is cultural interaction between Central, and East Asia plus Pakistan will continue to grow in the decades ahead

These groups have strong ethnic and racial ties with us. Most Pakistanis are descendants of invaders and migrants from Central Asia, particularly these regions in Western China and also from Uzbekistan.

Scythians, Parthians, Hepthalites all came from this region.

Han Chinese Traditional culture is more similar to Indians than it is to us. There is a reason why many of their social mores, religious practices, materialism, and dietary preferences are frankly off-putting to us.

We will always be closer civilizationally to Turks and Persians than others, due to our geographical location and religious-cultural norms.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Me. I place Mullahism first. In politics the left is natural balance to the right. Mullahism destroyed the genuine left in Pakistan. It prevented the masses to seek change in the temporal world. Mullahism opposed social evolution which suited vested interests like the elites to continue in the plunder of the people. For instance Mullahists opposed land distribution. The elites have used Mullahism for over 70 years to shackle society. Today of course Mullahists have gained so much confidence that they now even threaten their past masters. Because they think they ought to be ruling the place. I know that kinda of sorts Marxists but then you always have useful insights in all political philosophies.

I would place Turkey as the best example because they are closest to us in culture. I would go for a uber-nationalist Pakistan.

I would agree that Turky be the best example for Pakistan to follow but not entirely because you two nations have similar culture (if I understand correctly the culture you refer to language, wat of life etc). Rather it is the similarities in social and economical structure when Turkey had their reform which I consider is above culture.

I think culture is certainly a factor but not to be elevated to a strategic level. Things from different culture do look foreign but looking through the wrap there are a lot of commonalities. When China looked for the “model” that it can learn and follow in early years, culture similarity was not that important a consideration. We have nothing in common with UK and France in culture but it didn’t stop the scholars at that time study extensively about the context (ie social, political and economical structure, key parties/players, key events etc). These are the areas that one looks for commonality and try to extract useful experience.

Our admiration of China is limited to economic, scientific, and military spheres. Chinese civilization and social norms are still very alien to Pakistan and most Muslim countries.

It is important for us to learn from and study China, Japan, Germany, Turkey, and the Scandinavian countries to further develop our society.

Absolutely it is entirely up to you people.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I would agree that Turky be the best example for Pakistan to follow but not entirely because you two nations have similar culture (if I understand correctly the culture you refer to language, wat of life etc). Rather it is the similarities in social and economical structure when Turkey had their reform which I consider is above culture.

Out of the various countries that Pakistan could learn from, Turkey is closest to us. It's hard to define but for instance I am almost at sync with most Turkish members. The reason is their roots are Muslim but they very progressive. In the same way I am Muslim but being brought up in UK I have a outlook which is not comfortable with the stale, failed and retrogressive politics of Pakistan. Ideally as you mention one ought to treat this subject as buffet lunch. You liberally pick and choose what you think is best. UK, Germany, France, USA or whatever. But unlike Chinese, in Pakistan for whole variety of reasons it's not so simple as choosing freely from the 'buffet lunch' of success stories.

UK. No. Germany. No. France. No. USA. No. In fact any mention of that will entail howls of "westoxified" or "libtards" etc. However Turkey is seen very positively in Pakistan and thus using Turkey as examplar stands more chance of success.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Okay guys please in order of three vote what you consider the biggest threats to Pakistan. I list -

1. Mullahism
2. India
3. Afghanistan

Mullahs are not a threat. There are good Mullahs and also bad Mullahs.

Only Liberal Libturds, Extremists, and India are the threats.

Out of the various countries that Pakistan could learn from, Turkey is closest to us. It's hard to define but for instance I am almost at sync with most Turkish members. The reason is their roots are Muslim but they very progressive. In the same way I am Muslim but being brought up in UK I have a outlook which is not comfortable with the stale, failed and retrogressive politics of Pakistan. Ideally as you mention one ought to treat this subject as buffet lunch. You liberally pick and choose what you think is best. UK, Germany, France, USA or whatever. But unlike Chinese, in Pakistan for whole variety of reasons it's not so simple as choosing freely from the 'buffet lunch' of success stories.

UK. No. Germany. No. France. No. USA. No. In fact any mention of that will entail howls of "westoxified" or "libtards" etc. However Turkey is seen very positively in Pakistan and thus using Turkey as examplar stands more chance of success.

Funny you mention Ataturk's reforms. You know very well Muslims of Pakistan would not accept that.

1) State secularism
2) Changing of the script
3) Dress reforms

Why should we follow Turkey's reforms? We should follow Islamic teachings.

Why should we decimate our culture and traditions to please others.

Turkey is not an Islamic country nor does it claim to be one.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

UK, Germany, France, USA

The thing is possibly because of the colonial era anything remotely western is a no no in Pakistan. It's led to a very twisted society where we don't mind moving to the west for economic benefit, we don't mind enjoying the fruits of the west but any attempt to copy the attributes that underpin western success will lead to howls and screams.

There is almost a equation in Pakistan which is stamped in the minds of the majority. Tradition is the solution to everything and attributes that underpin western success are evil. So in practice this means to make progress Pakistani's insist on looking at a past [mythical]. Our leaders are aware of this. That is why they will dress, talk, and kowtow to tradition ever so carefull not to be accused of being 'westoxified'.

In China, Japan or even Turks this particular phenomenon does not exist. I think this thinking is product of the colonial period and sign of defeatism.

 

[MultaniGuy]

The thing is possibly because of the colonial era anything remotely western is a no no in Pakistan. It's led to a very twisted society where we don't mind moving to the west for economic benefit, we don't mind enjoying the fruits of the west but any attempt to copy the attributes that underpin western success will lead to howls and screams.

There is almost a equation in Pakistan which is stamped in the minds of the majority. Tradition is the solution to everything and attributes that underpin western success are evil. So in practice this means to make progress Pakistani's insist on looking at a past [mythical]. Our leaders are aware of this. That is why they will dress, talk, and kowtow to tradition ever so carefull not to be accused of being 'westoxified'.

In China, Japan or even Turks this particular phenomenon does not exist. I think this thinking is product of the colonial period and sign of defeatism.

Even when Japan and South Korea developed their countries, they did not change their scripts eventhough they are harder to learn.

The thing is possibly because of the colonial era anything remotely western is a no no in Pakistan. It's led to a very twisted society where we don't mind moving to the west for economic benefit, we don't mind enjoying the fruits of the west but any attempt to copy the attributes that underpin western success will lead to howls and screams.

There is almost a equation in Pakistan which is stamped in the minds of the majority. Tradition is the solution to everything and attributes that underpin western success are evil. So in practice this means to make progress Pakistani's insist on looking at a past [mythical]. Our leaders are aware of this. That is why they will dress, talk, and kowtow to tradition ever so carefull not to be accused of being 'westoxified'.

In China, Japan or even Turks this particular phenomenon does not exist. I think this thinking is product of the colonial period and sign of defeatism.

Dude, there is nothing wrong in wearing western business suits. Who is against that in Pakistan? LOL?

At international conferences like the Davos meeting even Imran Khan wore a Western Business suit.

Its for national issues Imran Khan dresses in traditional clothes.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Mullahs are not a threat. There are good Mullahs and also bad Mullahs.

Only Liberal Libturds, Extremists, and India are the threats.


Funny you mention Ataturk's reforms. You know very well Muslims of Pakistan would not accept that.

1) State secularism
2) Changing of the script
3) Dress reforms

Why should we follow Turkey's reforms? We should follow Islamic teachings.

Why should we decimate our culture and traditions to please others.

Turkey is not an Islamic country nor does it claim to be one.

Please read this. This idiot lives in Canada but is a clinical exhibit of a what I was talking about. Essentially everything he swims [a secular western Canada] in, he does not want Pakistani's to have. But it's all fine for him to live, breath, eat, sleep the western dream. Bizzare.

@GeraltofRivia

 

[MultaniGuy]

Please read this. This idiot lives in Canada but is a clinical exhibit of a what I was talking about. Essentially everything he swims [a secular western Canada] in, he does not want Pakistani's to have. But it's all fine for him to live, breath, eat, sleep the western dream. Bizzare.

@GeraltofRivia

LOL why you are living in UK, you idiot? Why are you calling me an idiot? You are such a hypocrite.

I know many Pakistanis who are living in USA as well.

Since Canada is not Pakistan, I have different expectations for Canada, you joker.

You are also living the western dream as well.

Next time, avoid the name calling.

My vote was for

1. Corruption
2. Mullahism
3. Others - (illiteracy)



i agree to an extent, Mullahs are against the education of girls, but when their own mother or daughter gets sick then they go looking for a lady doctor. Anyway we can only lump lack of female education to mullahism but what about boys not getting education.

Somewhat amused by your comment. Everybody is for the education of girls in Pakistan. Anyone who is against education of girls should be jailed.

Japan and China is a better example for Pakistan than is Turkey.

Retain your unique culture but industrialize and develop your country.

Please read this. This idiot lives in Canada but is a clinical exhibit of a what I was talking about. Essentially everything he swims [a secular western Canada] in, he does not want Pakistani's to have. But it's all fine for him to live, breath, eat, sleep the western dream. Bizzare.

@GeraltofRivia

Wow you punk, you think you are always right? You think I cannot disagree with you? Grow up.

You are living in UK, you hypocrite. And you said it yourself that you have been raised in UK and is out of touch with Pakistan. lol.

Please read this. This idiot lives in Canada but is a clinical exhibit of a what I was talking about. Essentially everything he swims [a secular western Canada] in, he does not want Pakistani's to have. But it's all fine for him to live, breath, eat, sleep the western dream. Bizzare.

@GeraltofRivia

Kind of idiotic of you to mention Turkey.

Why should we change our script and clothing? A little retarded to mention that. Why should we decimate our culture? lol.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Somewhat amused by your comment. Everybody is for the education of girls in Pakistan. Anyone who is against education of girls should be jailed.

Japan and China is a better example for Pakistan than is Turkey.

Retain your unique culture but industrialize and develop your country.

Nothing in my comment was meant to be for anyone's amusement, all i did was state the facts. As for you saying everybody is for education of girls in Pakistan, maybe you havn't been in Pakistan for the past 4 decades but this is what mullahs are chanting everyday.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Nothing in my comment was meant to be for anyone's amusement, all i did was state the facts. As for you saying everybody is for education of girls in Pakistan, maybe you havn't been in Pakistan for the past 4 decades but this is what mullahs are chanting everyday.

Show me which Mullah is saying do not educate girls?

Is this what Tariq Jameel and Dr. Israr Ahmed said?

Please be realistic. The last time I visited Pakistan was in 2007.

Nothing in my comment was meant to be for anyone's amusement, all i did was state the facts. As for you saying everybody is for education of girls in Pakistan, maybe you havn't been in Pakistan for the past 4 decades but this is what mullahs are chanting everyday.

My Mother is a Medical Doctor from Allama Iqbal University. And my Aunt is a graduate from Quaid-i-Azam University in Geophysics.

Who is stopping girls from getting educated.

Those who are against girl's education in Pakistan seriously need a reality check and are idiots.

Who can our nation ever develop and industrialize?