What is being done with Islam !!!!!

[Seadog1]

Nobody is justifying anything.
I am pointing out your selective myopia towards Islam and your assertion that Muslim societies are the worst offenders against women.

And I haven't even begun to talk about Christians in Africa, or the rampant infanticide of female infants and foetesus in East Asian cultures.

Regarding your post about women witnesses, here's an excerpt from that site I liked earlier. Here is is again:

Women in Islam Versus Women in Christianity and Judaism - A comparative Study

Another issue in which the Quran and the Bible disagree is the issue of women bearing witness. It is true that the Quran has instructed the believers dealing in financial transactions to get two male witnesses or one male and two females (2:282). However, it is also true that the Quran in other situations accepts the testimony of a woman as equal to that of a man. In fact the woman's testimony can even invalidate the man's. If a man accuses his wife of unchastity, he is required by the Quran to solemnly swear five times as evidence of the wife's guilt. If the wife denies and swears similarly five times, she is not considered guilty and in either case the marriage is dissolved (24:6-11).

On the other hand, women were not allowed to bear witness in early Jewish society. 12 The Rabbis counted women's not being able to bear witness among the nine curses inflicted upon all women because of the Fall (see the "Eve's Legacy" section). Women in today's Israel are not allowed to give evidence in Rabbinical courts. 13 The Rabbis justify why women cannot bear witness by citing Genesis 18:9-16, where it is stated that Sara, Abraham's wife had lied. The Rabbis use this incident as evidence that women are unqualified to bear witness. It should be noted here that this story narrated in Genesis 18:9-16 has been mentioned more than once in the Quran without any hint of any lies by Sara (11:69-74, 51:24-30). In the Christian West, both ecclesiastical and civil law debarred women from giving testimony until late last century. 14

If a man accuses his wife of unchastity, her testimony will not be considered at all according to the Bible. The accused wife has to be subjected to a trial by ordeal. In this trial, the wife faces a complex and humiliating ritual which was supposed to prove her guilt or innocence (Num. 5:11-31). If she is found guilty after this ordeal, she will be sentenced to death. If she is found not guilty, her husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing.

Besides, if a man takes a woman as a wife and then accuses her of not being a virgin, her own testimony will not count. Her parents had to bring evidence of her virginity before the elders of the town. If the parents could not prove the innocence of their daughter, she would be stoned to death on her father's doorsteps. If the parents were able to prove her innocence, the husband would only be fined one hundred shekels of silver and he could not divorce his wife as long as he lived:

Why in the world would worry about what a book said,,500, 1500 or 2000 years ago. I am not going to killl some one, stone some one, or start beating women over what some book says....and I think any one is just a dumb *** that does,,the bible and the Quran were written for people that lived a long long time ago....and this idea we are good because some else some where on earth is worse is not going to do us much good either. Me thinketh you all protest too much,,,,I think you know that the way women are treated in Pakistan is wrong, you just dont have the guts to admit it.

 

[VelocuR]

^ come on, man seadog1. YOU have no common sense to post it like this. You are idiot and silly. It is wasting our times to explain further to you a two years old kid. !!!

It is perhaps you are in very lack of knowledges, religion, people, history and keep blasphemy on Islam.

Please repack your bag and leave it.

 

[New Shivaji]

If you guys have any problem with how some people pratice Islam or things related with Islam - You guys fight it out amoung yourselves , You dont have to bring in India or Hinduism into your fights.

 

[Seadog1]

God...seadog1 read my post did i say these days stoning takes place? i mentioned shooting...you can write a billion words i've proved from the US own departments about he domestic violence in US if only you could read you wouldn't have done the stupidity of moving round and round in a circle get it through you think skull read my post and read emo girl's post you unless you don't want to accept the reality. I quote a verse in repose to the verse you took from Quran point out men are the cause in Islam. Hope you get my point other wise after this i would declare you a citizen of lunatic states.

How many cases of Rape do you think would be reported in the USA if to prove it you had to have 4 Male Christians as witnesses and if you could not prove your case you could end up in prison for 5 years or more. By the way I think there is less spouse abuse in USA ten in Canada.

 

[sonicboom]

deleted..............

 

[sonicboom]

Thanks FE.

Ref Highlighted part above , if we talk of equality, why can the lady not have four husbands ?

Why are all laws in favor of the male ?

Why men were allowed to have 4 wives in Islam?

Just to add:
It's because men traditionally supported women (and still do) and a single woman would have had a very difficult time supporting herself without a man. It was important for women to get married and since women outnumbered men in natural human populations (even today i.e., India) and also the men were marching off to war at the time of the Prophet which would have reduced their numbers, men were allowed to take up to 4 wives (if they could treat them well and support them all and with the permission of the first wife) to ensure that more women had husbands.

General reasons:

Men (generally) have stronger urge for sex than women and so the man may want sex more often than the single wife would allow. On the other hand, it would be very rare for the man to say no to his wife if the woman wants sex (even if daily).

Why women can't have 4 husbands?

If a woman marries 4 men and she gets pregnant and a child is born, then how would the mother and child know who was the father of the child (unless the child has some very distinguishing features)? You may not care who your father is, but some of us do care and Islam puts great emphasis on father. (And remember that does not occur if a man has 4 wives.)

 

[Luftwaffe]

Seadog1 i am done preaching you..now its your fingers and google search engine Canada by far is down the list and US tops in North/South America and these are world statistics i am not mocking around if a country has less abusive domestic violence then there is no need for 7+ government departments to receive take action and monitor domestic violence cases. Don't compare apples to Oranges a violent nation vs a peaceful nation no comparison we spend billions of Heath while US spends billions to kill. results are on the table..don't troll anymore oh and one of your last post suggested virginity is not a matter of concern in the US when you become a father someday with your daughter in the US you will care about it i hope just to clear a point. I hope you're not that Pakistani burger family guy.

 

[Moorkh]

religion is a very personal thing for a person.

why cant it just be assumed that the women in question are following some other religion which borrows from islam.

one of my muslim friends said a muslim is a person who follows the teachings of the quran and believes in Allah

so since the women in question are not following the teachings of the quran or atleast the interpretation you have(which might be the right one), they are not muslims.

since they are not muslims they can not be demonised for breaking islamic laws!!!

they are just following their own personal religion which is derived very closely from Islam

 

[VelocuR]

First woman to lead Muslim prayers angers traditionalists

Amina Wadud leads men and women in prayer in March 2005 at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in New York

LINK

17 October 2008

Islamic history will be made in the heart of Oxford today when a woman Muslim scholar leads Friday prayers and delivers the khutba, or sermon, for the first time in Britain.

Professor Amina Wadud, visiting scholar at the Starr King School of the Ministry, Berkeley, California, received death threats after she led a service in New York three years ago. That event was held at an Anglican church after mosques refused to host it.

At 1pm today on Oxford's Banbury Road, Ms Wadud will deliver a sermon at the start of a conference on Islam and feminism at the University's Wolfson College. Organised by the Muslim Educational Centre Oxford (Meco), the event has attracted fierce criticism from traditionalists, who claim that the Koran insists on men leading prayers.

Police will be on hand to ensure protests do not spill over into violence.

Taj Hargey, a veteran of anti-apartheid struggles in South Africa currently engaged in post-doctoral research at Wolfson College, is Meco's chairman. "Our situation is simple," Mr Hargey said. "The golden rule of the Koran is that whatever is not expressly prohibited is permitted.

"Literalists interpret the Hadith [the sayings of Prophet Muhammad] as implying a woman should never lead a community. But even within the Hadith there is a woman called Umm Waraqa whom the Prophet allowed to lead prayers in a household and to teach her neighbour. Though it recognises biological differences between men and women, the Koran absolutely specifies gender egalitarianism.

"The people opposing this are the Wahhabi, Deobandi; misogynistic segments of Islam. They don't believe in the innate equality of men and women." (??-lie)

Born in 1952 to a Methodist father and a mother of Muslim heritage in Maryland, Ms Wadud, who has written books on the Koran and memorised most of it, first delivered a Friday sermon in Cape Town, South Africa, in August 1994. Seen as a pioneering feminist, her last book, Inside The Gender Jihad: Women's Reform In Islam (2006) was partly an experiment in autobiography, and included details of the threats to her life in New York.

That sermon, delivered to about 100 men and women, led to a concerted attempt by some Muslim scholars to have her removed from the academic position she then held at Virginia Commonwealth University.

Today, she will be speaking on justice to several hundred men and women, and her sermon having a mixed audience has angered Conservative members of the Muslim community. Mokh-tar Badri, vice-president of the Muslim Association of Britain, said: "With all respect to sister Amina, prayer is something we perform in accordance to the teachings of our Lord. It has nothing to do with the position of women in society. It is not to degrade them. This is something divine, not human. We do it the way it has been ordained by God. Women can lead prayers before other women but before a congregation of men and women, a man must lead.

"This is not confined to Islam. Catholics don't appreciate female priests."

Last week, Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "We have no dealings with Taj Hargey. His organisation has no affiliation with mainstream groups in this country."

Meco has 200 supporters. Its chairman is no stranger to controversy. In 1983, Mr Hargey was jailed in his native Cape Town for anti-apartheid protests.

"Look at what [suffragette] Emmeline Pankhurst did," he said. "People told her she was mad but now we worship her. In time people will say similar things about Amina Wadud."

A protestor and a worshipper talk things out following the prayer. His sign said "Amina Wadud is not a Muslim according to the Qur'an and Sunnah

Outside, Mohammed Nussrah, a 21-year-old Brooklyn resident had been protesting with five or six other peers, claiming that Wadud and the congregants had gone against the teachings of Islam.

"She is violating Islamic law…This woman here, is just changing that whole concept. She says its time to reform Islam; that's the name of the group, they're called progressive Muslims," he ranted. "As Muslims, we are followers of God, we hear and we obey. Whatever the Qur'an says, we take it with no questions, we have no opinions here; we have no comments; we have no suggestions. We just hear and we obey. And we know for sure in Islam, women cannot lead men in prayer. And what's she doing here today, she's violated a law which has been going on for more than 1400 years. Now, she can repent or she'll definitely burn in hell."

 

[VelocuR]

By the way, I FOUND HER NAME I remember: Asra Nomani. (in picture she is in the middle with no hijab^^... Look up her history. Yes, bashing on Islam.






Imam rejected her a few times. She is lack of knowledges in Islam and she think women are degraded and less respected in Islam which is absolutely not true. She is simple idiot.

 

[asq]

this is really shame full...these women have to be punished..

Your sarcasm is very obvious and is repugnant. dude.

do not indulge into something u have no clue about. dude.

 

[Atheist]

Lol - so funny...Muslims here are worried about prayer styles - at least these people are even thinking about GOD - what about those who kill people on the name of GOD

 

[asq]

Lol - so funny...Muslims here are worried about prayer styles - at least these people are even thinking about GOD - what about those who kill people on the name of GOD

As i said U.have no clue about Islam. dude.

 

[Aslan]

self deleted

 

[Aslan]

Lol - so funny...Muslims here are worried about prayer styles - at least these people are even thinking about GOD - what about those who kill people on the name of GOD

Don't worry about it dude you people are not even worth it. Have a nice day and be happy about the fact that you were able to show how low your upbringing has been that you cant even respect others religion.