What if PAF has to defend on two fronts?

[Kharian_Beast]

Nation wants to see action not reaction.

 

[x_man]

well , i dont mind if you cant see , IAF flying SU30's on lahore , karachi , faisalabad, sialkot, its already 3 times this week that , IAF BREAK INTO OUR AIRSPACE, still you think that they are just , looking some tea shop to drink tea! than its oky & fine

Not quite true….while there were incursions few days back but it didn’t happen again….Everyone is cool atleast for now and no new incursions have been reported since then…If the IAFs intentions were to check response, I am sure they have got the answer and PAF will continue to do their job...Nobody is sitting on it..

Media is unnecessarily trying to hype this incursion issue as well for their own vested interests …Don’t fall for their yellow journalism…

 

[ajpirzada]

How can we include Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar as allies when mother China itself won't help us in the UN Security Council...

I knew all that nakli cheen aur pakistan dosti was horse radish, it's time we relied on ourselves as so many are suggesting and make our stance firm and stop pussy footing around.

bro china has helped us many time in UN. they stopped UN resolution three times before this mumbai attack. after this mumbai attack there was already too much pressure even on china. also this time our gov did not ask china to block the resolution. china did come fwd in a big way. they were the only one who assured us full support. moral, financial and material. they even contacted our joint chief to know what our immediate requirenments were so that they could be met without any delay if the war breaks out. though our army said they are self sufficient but still it was a big thing. no one supports anyone in such a big way. i am really greatful to china for their support. sometimes even a thought of someone standing behind u makes u come out of the situation

 

[batmannow]

Move in US to get Pakistan aid stopped
December 17, 2008 Wednesday Zilhaj 18, 1429
dawn news
By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Dec 16: US politicians with close links to India have quietly launched a campaign to persuade the incoming Obama administration to stop US aid to Pakistan.

“I do not believe in aiding countries that aid terrorism,” said US Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey.

Declaring Pakistan a “failed State” Congressman Frank Pallone, another Democrat, said he opposed giving billions of dollars in aid to Pakistan because he believed it would be used against India.

Gary Ackerman, a pro-Indian Democratic Congressman from New York who has long advocated stopping US military aid to Pakistan, urged Washington to review its policy towards Islamabad after the Mumbai attacks.

“The implication for us is that there are bad guys still out there, and we’re going to have to learn how to deal with them, because our friends are getting sucked into this big-time,” said Mr Ackerman, who chairs the House subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia.

Some of these lawmakers may move a resolution in the US Congress after the inauguration of the new president on Jan 20, strongly condemning Mumbai attacks and urging lawmakers to stop military assistance to Pakistan.

A $15 billion, 10-year aid package already proposes to attach US military assistance to Pakistan to its performance in the war against terror, authorising the US administration to stop the aid if it finds that Islamabad was not doing enough to fight terrorism.

One of the primary movers of the bill, Senator Joseph Biden, is now the vice-president-elect. He chaired the Senate’s powerful Foreign Relations Committee before the November election. A former Democratic presidential candidate, Senator John Kerry, will replace him as chairman of the committee and is also expected to back the bill to provide generous economic assistance to Pakistan.

But the move by pro-Indian American politicians can harm this effort. Diplomatic observers in Washington feel that while it may not be possible to stop US aid to Pakistan because of the country’s strategic importance, the lawmakers may succeed in attaching unfavourable conditions.

Even some of these pro-Indian lawmakers realise Pakistan’s strategic importance. Senator Menendez, while emphasising the need to attach US aid to Islamabad’s performance in the war against terror, also cautioned a gathering of Indian-Americans in New Jersey this week not to stir an India-Pakistan war because such a conflict “might lead to drastic consequences”.

He urged India to come out with all the evidence it had to link Mumbai attacks to Pakistan.“We have an obligation to bring terrorists to justice. Lashkar-e-Taiba must be brought to justice,” he said.

Congressman Pallone, however, went over the top while condemning Pakistan.

“Pakistan is essentially a failed state. I do not believe the central government controls most of the territory of the country,” he declared.

 

[TOPGUN]

Dude is on some serious drugs !!!!!!!

 

[batmannow]

Not quite true….while there were incursions few days back but it didn’t happen again….Everyone is cool atleast for now and no new incursions have been reported since then…If the IAFs intentions were to check response, I am sure they have got the answer and PAF will continue to do their job...Nobody is sitting on it..

Media is unnecessarily trying to hype this incursion issue as well for their own vested interests …Don’t fall for their yellow journalism…

Ignorance, confusion or a sinister deliberateness?

Wednesday, December 17, 2008, Zil Hajj 18, 1429 A.H
THE NEWS.COM
BY Shireen M Mazari

The post-Mumbai signals coming from the leadership in Islamabad has proven one thing: ignorance is a costly burden the nation of Pakistan has to bear. But increasingly the question that keeps coming to the fore is whether our leaders are truly mired in their own ignorance, or in a state of genuine confusion, or is there a more sinister agenda being played out. After all, even the most ill-informed leader has at his disposal expertise and some institutional history from the national civil and military bureaucracy – even if one were to forget the growing relevancy of specialised professionalism. So is something seriously wrong with the Pakistani leadership today or is there a covert agenda that is being played out? Let us look to the facts that have hit us since Mumbai.

The most recent incident was the incursion of Indian fighter planes into Pakistani airspace at two sensitive spots – Lahore and AJK. Given that the Indians had been ranting and raving about carrying out surgical strikes against targets in Muridke and AJK, these intrusions were significant. Yet, in the mildest of language the Pakistan Air Force, which mercifully proved quick to scramble in response, referred to these violations of Pakistani airspace as “technical violations” – that is they did not penetrate deep into our air space. But there was never any doubt that the intrusions were probes into our scramble time. But what did our political leadership do? They immediately went to bat for the Indians by referring to the intrusions as “technical faults” – similar I suppose to PIA’s many delays! In fact the president even used hand actions, perhaps to show his aerial knowledge to the British prime minister standing next to him, to explain how the “technical fault” had occurred! Now, the disturbing question is: were the president, prime minister and information minister really unable to distinguish the meaning of “technical fault” and “technical violation”. It is distressing because apparently the military had briefed these leaders on the meaning of the latter! It is only on seeing the helpful role being played by the Pakistani leaders that the Indians went along and said no intrusion had really taken place except inadvertently. Inadvertently and simultaneously, in two different locations? I ask you how gullible the Indians think we are – or perhaps they are judging us by our present leaders!
War in not a feasible option for India or Pakistan but surgical strikes are definitely being contemplated by the Indians. After all, they are seeing our governments’ (previous and present) acquiescence to constant drone attacks targeting our nationals including women and children so they feel they may “get away” with a few surgical strikes especially with US and UK backing. But the key to their success would lie in their ability to get their planes back safely. Hence the need to test our scramble time. It is in this context also that the controversial call to the president makes sense – again a test of our ability to move to alert status. On Monday, December 15, there was some news flowing in that at 11:30 am Indian intrusions had again taken place along Narowal, near Kalakhatai and Narang Mandi but that the GoP had blacked out this news from the media. However, this information could not be officially verified. What was known was that now NATO planes had joined US drones in violating our airspace in Balochistan near Chaman. So what is happening? Is our military losing its ability for rapid response to military threats against the country? Or is there something more sinister going on at the covert level?

After all, it is now becoming evident that the US is targeting our military and its related organisations, especially the ISI. Ever since the ISI fell out with the CIA about a year ago, it has become a target of US intrusiveness. Apart from the rantings of the US administration, equally ignorant but failed American politicians are also now telling us to “bring the ISI under Islamabad’s control” - presumably meaning “civilian control”. Perhaps these ignoramuses need to be informed that the ISI is already under prime ministerial control. Instead, our political leadership continues to allow such poisonous foreigners to hold forth on issues they are barely informed about. And we know how the US acts on ignorance – Iraq is the present reminder but US history is replete with such horror stories of imperial arrogance. While on the subject, perhaps our president could have reminded Britain’s Gordon Brown that it is his country that has been refusing to sign an extradition treaty with Pakistan – so why should we now make unilateral concessions once again?

And what of the now-forgotten blunder of the prime minister declaring to send the ISI DG to India without realising the consequences. Was this mere ignorance, confusion – given how the presidency then distanced itself from this decision and eventually the GoP declared that that was never the intent – or again a failed move in a more sinister agenda?
Which brings one to yet another absurdity – that of the UN Security Council Al Qaeda and Taliban sanctions Committee (originally set up under UNSC resolution 1267 of 1999 where first it was just targeting Taliban and then Al Qaeda was added on) adding the Jamaat-ut-Daawa and four Pakistanis to its terror list as defined by the requirements of the 1267 committee. These names had been there for some time but on earlier occasions the committee, comprising 15 members of the UN Security Council, had failed to put them on the proscribed list. This was a result of our professional diplomacy and support from allies like China. From information acquired from highly reliable sources, it appears that the Chinese once again approached us but we chose to allow the committee to put these names on the proscribed list. One absurd explanation is that our government felt this would ease pressure on Pakistan – pressure on what? Another case of a costly ignorance, confusion, or something more sinister? After all, with the ISI and the Pakistani military being targeted, all these moves spurred by the US in the UN Security Council when linked together move us further down an abyss where the eventual target will be our nuclear assets. Or is the larger picture not visible to the present leadership – both civilian and military?

Ironically, the ignorance of the US and its allies is such that they let the UN Security Council ban a dead man – Mohammad Ashraf. He apparently was the finance secretary of the Daawa but died six years ago in Hyderabad, according to a Pakistani news report. The UN really should have better information before it acts. But what is even more bizarre is the declaration by our political leaders, including the foreign minister that Daawa is not a terrorist organisation – then why was there no proactive diplomacy in the corridors of the UN? (The committee’s meetings are closed-door meetings but the agendas are published beforehand within the UN and interested states can get more details from their allies in the UN Security Council.) Of course, eventually some of the information will be given to the GoP regarding intelligence received from certain countries which led to the move in the first place. But the damage has been done.

Even more disturbing is the fact that the UN Security Council’s anti-terror committees are seemingly targeting only Muslim groups and entities while other extremist groups using violence are being ignored. After all, if rogue elements in the Indian army have been in cahoots with Hindu extremists of the VHP and RSS to carry out terror attacks against Pakistanis – such as the Samjhauta Express attack, why are these names not being considered by the UN Security Council? Why is our leadership silent on this count? By ignorance, confusion or sinister design? After all, the VHP and RSS can be linked to the BJP and to the Indian army so they would all come under the purview of the UN Security Council surely? Why is Pakistan inactive on this count?
I leave it to fellow concerned Pakistanis to connect the dots for themselves (it’s all in the linkages which reveal the bigger picture) to see where we are being led since 9/11, either by a fatal ignorance, confusion or sinister design.

The writer is a defence analyst. Email: callstr@hotmail.com

I HOPE THAT ,THIS ARTICAL WOULD NOT FALL IN THE "YELOW JUORNALISM " LIST!
ALSO i agree , that there are some sort of biasness in our media, but still there are quit good peoples around, so we cant simply take things out , which we dont like to hear, to the list of yellow journalism!


Well, "unnecessarily trying to hype" the issue?
just , can i ask what if , PAF did the same thing to INDIA, thn what thier media would be doing in that case?

 

[ajpirzada]

i would really hope that pakistan stop gettin aid from US. atleast we will be in a position to make independent decisions. and bec US doesnt want that to happen so the aid wont stop.

 

[batmannow]

US spy planes again violate Pak airspace
Wednesday, December 17 2008, Zilhaj 18, 1429
Pakistan Observer .com

Wana—US spy planes and jet fighters on Tuesday violated Pakistan’s airspace and hovered over villages of South Waziristan, bordering Afghanistan.

Two US jetfighters intruded into Pakistan airspace and returned back to Afghanistan after hovering over Angoor Ada, security sources in Wana said.

The flights of CIA-operated US spy planes is continuously increasing and at least 5 drones at a time violated Pakistan airspace and continued hovering over Wana and its adjoining areas for some time but after firing by tribesmen they were returned to Afghanistan.

After continuous violation of Pakistan airspace by the CIA-operated spy planes and US jet fighters, an emergent Jirga of tribal chieftains was held in Wana Bazaar in which they strongly protested the violation of country’s airspace and termed it an open aggression.

Malik Ali Muhammad while addressing the Jirga said that US is increasing hatred against it by violating country’s airspace and firing missiles there. He said Government instead of verbal protest should take practical steps to stop violation of country’s airspace by US otherwise tribesmen would take steps on their own.—Online

 

[fatman17]

Congressman Pallone, however, went over the top while condemning Pakistan.

“Pakistan is essentially a failed state. I do not believe the central government controls most of the territory of the country,” he declared.

well i have only one message for congressman pallone - EAT MY DUST !!!

 

[fatman17]

pls merge this thread with the technical reasons of the intrusion thread or vice-versa

 

[fatman17]

Yet, in the mildest of language the Pakistan Air Force, which mercifully proved quick to scramble in response

well i am not surprised here. SirMuradK and x_man can verify this. the PAF even during "peace-time" always operates on a war-footing albeit depends on the threat level of the enemy. most front-line squadrons operate under QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) conditions.

 

[Super Falcon]

I still maintain that India is going to attack, even after we give her everything.

If I was the leader of Pakistan, I would've sent out a message that if we have enough intel that an attack from India is imminent, we won't hesitate to preemptively strike at any location within India.

I should remind you Sheikh Rasheed's attitude, "Hamla toh India ka **** bhi nahi karsakta". Obviously he doesn't know for sure, but its that kind of aggressive attitude that makes us Pakistanis. We used to take it from no one, not even Clinton was able to push us around when we were much weaker. A disciplined aggression is key here. It will ultimately reach to regional peace.

i agree with you friend but how does this hole zardari know about it he stil think that there is no threat from india

 

[Janbaz]

Nothing's gonna happen. Even with America's blessing's our neighbours dont have the testicular fortitude to launch preemptive strike.

The AF and military will rise to the occassion and lead the nation even if the democratic government cant deliver. The people cannot be defeated neither can the army which has 160 million backers.

 

[A1Kaid]

You know stupid Musharraf has really placed Pakistan in a bad position allowing the CIA and USA military to conduct drone attacks and Black OPS to operate within the Tribal regions. Eating up the 10 billion dollar that was given to Pakistan as AID, corrupt Generals and military leadership did not spend the money wisely. Musharraf's bad policies are a major reason why Pakistan finds itself in a despicable state. It was Musharraf "indispensible ally of the West" who took orders from Western leaders...Now Western Leaders have a perception of Pakistan as a obedient country a Lamb state that will take orders from Washington or 10 Downing Street.

Now we find ourselves with a pathetic Western A** kissing Government led by Sharabi Zardari and the clowns called the PPP...Shame Inshallah Pakistan will see better days.

Damn policy makers, complete idiots. Develop the Economy just do that first...

 

[A1Kaid]

The US does not hesitate to do drone or hellfire missile attacks in Pakistan, but they DARE NOT DO THAT to IRAN!!! Why because Iran is defiant IRAN is exhibiting cleverness/stubborness and "Disciplined Aggression". US will not dare to strike Iran as it has been striking Pakistan, and WERE suppose to be the NUCLEAR POWER!!!