What do you think of cousin marriages ?

[Hamza913]

Well what if the first cousin himself is a product of inbreeding? With time they will get closer and closer

Yes, but even then the risk remains low in general terms. To do it to the point where it gets as high as even 10% just doesn't happen unless non genetic factors are at play. To the few families who actually manage to inbreed this long (it would take 4 generations of first cousin banging on BOTH sides to achieve this), they will be such a small proportion of the population that they won't really add much to the number of disabled in the country.

where does it say 'pakistanis' have defect rate of 3% in the link i gave?

The second one. You can find more links saying the same online.

 

[livingdead]

Yes, but even then the risk remains low in general terms. To do it to the point where it gets as high as even 10% just doesn't happen unless non genetic factors are at play. To the few families who actually manage to inbreed this long (it would take 4 generations of first cousin banging on BOTH sides to achieve this), they will be such a small proportion of the population that they won't really add much to the number of disabled in the country.



The second one. You can find more links saying the same online.

plz paste the relevant line coz I cant find it in the link..
its possible to have 3% defect rate for a group yet contribute to 30% of total population(of all babies with defects)... why is it absurd?

 

[Hamza913]

plz paste the relevant line coz I cant find it in the link..

Nvm it sad BiB babies not Pakistani ones.

However, it did say babies born from cousin marriages had a roughly 6% defect rate. Still ultimately low. A similar study in Pakistan was conducted showing that birth defects are at roughly 5% in Lahore (despite over 50% of people marrying their first cousin):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188785

 

[livingdead]

Nvm it sad BiB babies not Pakistani ones.

However, it did say babies born from cousin marriages had a roughly 6% defect rate. Still ultimately low. A similar study in Pakistan was conducted with similar results:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188785

the link you gave does not have direct relation with consanguineous marriage.. might be a contributing factor but we dont know how much...
in any case, as per this study , 6% defect rate, contributes to 33% of the all defects(neither is specifically about pakistanis.. dont conflate stats plz)... which is pretty huge.

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

There is a Hadith of Prophet (PBUH) which says something like (i am not exactly sure) Best migration out of one for Woman, Money, ... and Deen is one which is for Deen.
Follow what Al-Quran and Sunnah tell us.
There is another Hadith:"Allah ki rassi ko thamy rakho".
In todays era of fitnas and marriage beuros, marriages in family (who one knows better than out of family) or any-other 'credible' sources is preferred in case out of family.
I have tried to infer something something according to this particular situation in this saying "Wiser enemy (out-of-family) is better than foolish friend (in family)".

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

So what do you think of it ? bad genes?, inbred? disease? lower iq? smaller height? Pakistan should they introduce law and testing.

I vaguely remember reading that iran has introduced a program where you can do a test to find out if you and partner are to have healthy baby or not. I forgotten the name of this program. Anyone that knows could you please help.

From my observation most cousin marriages have children with eczema and slow motor skills. They fall ill easily, and have weak immune system.

its not true that mostly cousins marriages effected on kids health. i know parents having unhealthy babies and they are not cousins. yes there is test you can do before marriage we have here in qatar aswell.
if cousin marriage was bad from any point of view islam would have banned it. so dont buy anything west feeds you

 

[Arefin007]

successive cousin marriage over generations could lead to mental and health defects

 

[Hamza913]

the link you gave does not have direct relation with consanguineous marriage.. might be a contributing factor but we dont know how much...
in any case, as per this study , 6% defect rate, contributes to 33% of the all defects(neither is specifically about pakistanis.. dont conflate stats plz)... which is pretty huge.

Don't be silly. We both know for a fact cousin marriages regularly occur in Pakistan, yet the defect rate in Lahore is still 5% as per this study.

Do you realise how incredibly stupid that sounds? In order for Pakistanis to contribute to 1/3 of the genetic defects in the UK (yes it is specifically Pakistanis), Pakistanis would have to contribute a total of (roughly) 0.6% to the country's overall birth defects (2% is rate of defection). Since the Pakistani community makes up 3% of the UK, that means 1/5 of Pakistanis would have serious defects. Do you realise how stupid this sounds?

Another stupid claim is that Pakistanis are 13 times as likely to give birth to a defective child. Again, impossible since it would mean the rate of birth defects among Pakistanis would need to be about 26% (!). This simply isn't true.

its not true that mostly cousins marriages effected on kids health. i know parents having unhealthy babies and they are not cousins. yes there is test you can do before marriage we have here in qatar aswell.
if cousin marriage was bad from any point of view islam would have banned it. so dont buy anything west feeds you

If it was bad then it wouldn't be ingrained into so many cultures. Even the Europeans did it (only stopped recently).

Not to mention that according to scientists, humans started as a mere few thousand in Africa. There would have been some inbreeding no doubt. In fact, some even state as many as 80% (!) of marriages throughout human history have been between 1st cousins and closer (!).

 

[Rusty]

There are 7 Billion humans on the planet... why do people need to marry their cousins?
It's so gross, even nature is telling us to stop it.

 

[livingdead]

Don't be silly. We both know for a fact cousin marriages regularly occur in Pakistan, yet the defect rate in Lahore is still 5% as per this study.

Do you realise how incredibly stupid that sounds? In order for Pakistanis to contribute to 1/3 of the genetic defects in the UK (yes it is specifically Pakistanis), Pakistanis would have to contribute a total of (roughly) 0.6% to the country's overall birth defects (2% is rate of defection). Since the Pakistani community makes up 3% of the UK, that means 1/5 of Pakistanis would have serious defects. Do you realise how stupid this sounds?

Another stupid claim is that Pakistanis are 13 times as likely to give birth to a defective child. Again, impossible since it would mean the rate of birth defects among Pakistanis would need to be about 26% (!). This simply isn't true.



If it was bad then it wouldn't be ingrained into so many cultures. Even the Europeans did it (only stopped recently).

Not to mention that according to scientists, humans started as a mere few thousand in Africa. There would have been some inbreeding no doubt. In fact, some even state as many as 80% (!) of marriages throughout human history have been between 1st cousins and closer (!).

i did not make that conclusion... if we join both reports for illustration:
Lets say total babies born(all ethnicity) = 1000
total babies born with defects(all ethnicity) @1.7 defect rate = 17
number of pakistani baby with birth defect(30%) = 5.1
total number of pakistani babies born(3.4%)= 34

defect rate among pakistani babies = (5.1/34)*100 = 15%

This is the worst case conclusion... it does not mean 15 perfect of pakistani adults are with defects.

I dont care about lahore case study because they did not make it a parameter in the study.... you can make all sorts of conclusion, am not getting effect of unknown variable. Instead they used the economic status as the focus and the variation due to that.

 

[Hamza913]

i did not make that conclusion... if we join both reports for illustration:
Lets say total babies born(all ethnicity) = 1000
total babies born with defects(all ethnicity) @1.7 defect rate = 17
number of pakistani baby with birth defect(30%) = 5.1
total number of pakistani babies born(3.4%)= 34

defect rate among pakistani babies = (5.1/34)*100 = 15%

This is the worst case conclusion... it does not mean 15 perfect of pakistani adults are with defects.

I dont care about lahore case study because they did not make it a parameter in the study.... you can make all sorts of conclusion, am not getting effect of unknown variable. Instead they used the economic status as the focus and the variation due to that.

15% is not possible, literally no study has yielded such a high result. Again, even in Lahore, the rate is still 5%.

Dude, it says clear as crystal that the defect rate was 5%. If cousin marriages were as bad as you say, it should be 15% minimum (should probably be higher since Pakistanis in Pakistan live in worse conditions and marry their cousins more frequently). You denying this is plain stupidity.

I also don't think you can cite any study proving your claims. Not an article, but an actual scientific study. Go ahead and try, I'll wait.

 

[livingdead]

15% is not possible, literally no study has yielded such a high result. Again, even in Lahore, the rate is still 5%.

Dude, it says clear as crystal that the defect rate was 5%. If cousin marriages were as bad as you say, it should be 15% minimum (should probably be higher since Pakistanis in Pakistan live in worse conditions and marry their cousins more frequently). You denying this is plain stupidity.

I also don't think you can cite any study proving your claims. Not an article, but an actual scientific study. Go ahead and try, I'll wait.

lol.. why would I go around searching for articles to satisfy your standard of believing what is true? I have never done that in any argument ever here.. he he.... too lazy (may be @Roybot with his awsome skills can do it.)
I still think lahore report does not necessarily contradict the finding in UK.. its uptu you/others to make sense of that...
Whether 15 percent is too high is upto people knowledge in that area to suggest, am not NHS worker nor pakistani.. may be you can do an unscientific poll here and see what other pakistanis think.. (although that proves nothing, it might prove that its not as 'stupid' as it sounds )
I just wanted to demonstrate others its not really crazy number, probably higher that some expect.

 

[Divergent]

In this day and age people find their own.

 

[truthseer]

There is a Hadith of Prophet (PBUH) which says something like (i am not exactly sure) Best migration out of one for Woman, Money, ... and Deen is one which is for Deen.
Follow what Al-Quran and Sunnah tell us.
There is another Hadith:"Allah ki rassi ko thamy rakho".
In todays era of fitnas and marriage beuros, marriages in family (who one knows better than out of family) or any-other 'credible' sources is preferred in case out of family.
I have tried to infer something something according to this particular situation in this saying "Wiser enemy (out-of-family) is better than foolish friend (in family)".

None of these recommend cousin marriage. None are even about marriage.

Islam doesn't forbid cousin marriage, nor does it say that it is the better option. It is not forbidden because Hazrat Ali (A.S) married Fatimah (A.S). But it is not preferred one way or another, it is allowed.

 

[Azadkashmir]

The defects could be related to modern vaccines/injection they give to babies. I never trust some of the modern medicines. I know babay budday folks in pak 70s years old marrying young 20 yr old and making babies and Some still can run and climb over walls. I think go full natural is best. just breast milk from mother that's it.