What do the Quran and Hadith predict about the end of the Apartheid state of Israel?

[Foinikas]

Christians can put things of him that he never said, it's true, he never said he was god, but catholic people take him as god, and that is a great blasphemy in the eyes of all other abrahamic religions.

You should really read the New Testament.

 

[Corruptistan]

Agreed fully. No doubt in it. Christians, especially who believe in trinity are worst abusres to God, Jesus and his mother, merry.
They attribute all those things to Jesus and his mother that they themselves never teached or never said.

The trinity is influence from Roman and Greek paganism. As are their religious hierarchy, so-called "saints" (that they pray to directly!), main religious holidays (that ironically all collide with pre-Christian Roman and Greek pagan holidays!) etc. The Bible has been written by numerous authors whose life story we know very little about. Many/if not most Christians don't even belief in their Bible or what it says, many reject the entire Old Testament which is the foundation of the New Testament.

Look at all the Jewish sources about Prophet Isa (as). They are the best contemporary sources as he was a Israelite. Aside from the sect that originated with him and their later absurd claims (trinity etc.), all Jewish scholars and rabbis rejected this doctrine. Not a coincidence.

Christianity at its core is a Semitic religion. The trinity is the copy of the pre-Abrahamic Semitic pagan beliefs among some pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions, where the ruler (monarch) is the "son" of God (he is his enforcer on planet earth) while the spirit (was the unseen on earth and everything that was attributed miracles to), which was the concept used by powerful and ancient monarchs in the Arab world from Arabia to Mesopotamia, Egypt, Levant etc.

Interestingly the East Asian civilizations had a similar concept. It was created by the Chinese Emperors who mixed their rule with divinity. Later it was adopted by the Japanese and most recently used by Japanese emperors, most recent example being Hirohito during WW2 and his cult of personality.

This Chinese/East Asian concept is called "Mandate of Heaven" 天命

Mandate of Heaven - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Iranians (Zoroastrians) had/have a similar concept with the Shah (Kings of Kings) which was a title borrowed from the much older Semitic Mesopotamians.

This is also explained here below:

King of Kings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This title is also used in the Bible and derives from the Aramaic sar sarrani.

The title King of Kings was first introduced by the Assyrian king Tukulti-Ninurta I (who reigned between 1233 and 1197 BC) as šar šarrāni. The title carried a literal meaning in that a šar was traditionally simply the ruler of a city-state. With the formation of the Middle Assyrian Empire, the Assyrian rulers installed themselves as kings over an already present system of kingship in these city-states, becoming literal "kings of kings".[1] Following Tukulti-Ninurta's reign, the title was occasionally used by monarchs of Assyria and Babylon.[2] Later

King of Kings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anyway Christians are still "people of the book" but their main beliefs have unfortunately become corrupted given rise to such false beliefs.

 

[BHAN85]

You should really read the New Testament.

Jesus words are only in the 4 gospels, rest of New testament can be ignored.

I recommend read 4 gospels to everybody, it doesnt matter his beliefs.

I've read new testament and it's truly boring, like the 95% of bible.

But gospels are truly great.

 

[Foinikas]

The trinity is influence from Roman and Greek paganism. As are their religious hierarchy, so-called "saints" (that they pray to directly!), main religious holidays (that ironically all collide with pre-Christian Roman and Greek pagan holidays!) etc. The Bible has been written by numerous authors whose life story we know very little about. Many/if not most Christians don't even belief in their Bible or what it says, many reject the entire Old Testament which is the foundation of the New Testament.

Look at all the Jewish sources about Prophet Isa (as). They are the best contemporary sources as he was a Israelite. Aside from the sect that originated with him and their later absurd claims (trinity etc.), all Jewish scholars and rabbis rejected this doctrine. Not a coincidence.

WHAT GOD IS NOT: God is not an impersonal essence nor merely a "higher power." Neither are God and Trinity simply singular names for what would otherwise be considered three gods (i.e. terms which would hide polytheism).

WHAT GOD IS: Though the Trinity is a mystery beyond comprehension, two analogies are often used to help explain what Trinity means. The first references the sun, and the second references man.

The Sun: The sun is characterized by three elements. (1) The ball of burning gas is the source of all (like the Father). (2) The light is visible to all (like the Son). (3) The heat is felt, but not seen (like the Holy Spirit or Comforter).

The sun has never been the sun without its light and heat, and the light and heat cannot exist without their source. In addition, while they may co-exist, they do not produce each other in and of themselves. (ex. You can’t read by the light of a heating pad, nor can you count on getting warm wherever it is bright.)

Man: It is said that each human has been made in the image of God, and as such each human bears similarities to our Trinitarian Lord and God: (1) Man's nous (i.e. complete mind and heart; including intellect, creativity, feelings, morality, intuition, etc.) is like the Father. (2) Man's flesh (both tangible and a temple of the Holy Spirit), is akin to the Son who became incarnate and was filled with the Holy Spirit. (3) Man's life (or breath) is akin the Holy Spirit.

Man (any human) is all three. There is never a time that man has existed (or could exist) without all three. For a human nous cannot exist without a body and life, a human body does not exist--at least at the start--without a nous and life, and a human life cannot exist without a nous and body.

The benefit and limitation of analogies: Each of these analogies is good at expressing a three-ness and one-ness with no polytheism. However, according to Saint Gregory the Theologian, trying to go further to comprehend unbegotten-ness (Father), begotten-ness (Son), or procession (Holy Spirit) leads to insanity. Therefore the Church traditionally approaches God in divine mystery (and apophatically), content to encounter Him rather than comprehend Him (for it is impossible for the created to comprehend the ineffable Creator).


Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one), which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[6] In discussing God's relationship to his creation, Eastern Orthodox theology distinguishes between God's eternal essence, which is totally transcendent, and his uncreated energies, which is how he reaches humanity.[6] The God who is transcendent and the God who touches mankind are one and the same.[6] That is, these energies are not something that proceed from God or that God produces, but rather they are God himself: distinct, yet inseparable from God's inner being.[7]

Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a single God who is both three and one (triune); the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, "one in essence and undivided".[6] The Trinity, three distinct, divine persons (hypostases), without overlap or modality among them, who each have one divine essence (ousia, Greek: οὐσία)—uncreated, immaterial, and eternal.[8] The Father is eternal and not begotten and does not proceed from any, the Son is eternal and begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternal and proceeds from the Father.[6] Eastern Orthodox doctrine regarding the Trinity is summarised in the Nicene Creed.[9] The essence of God being that which is beyond human comprehension and cannot be defined or approached by human understanding.[10]

Jesus words are only in the 4 gospels, rest of New testament can be ignored.

I recommend read 4 gospels to everybody, it doesnt matter his beliefs.

I've read new testament and it's truly boring, like the 95% of bible.

But gospels are truly great.

So basically,you are talking like the Evangelicals. The fundamentalist Protestants in USA,who have no patristic tradition and here we're not talking about just patristic tradition,but you're discarding the whole Acts of the Apostles,the Epistoles and the Revelation!

 

[Corruptistan]

WHAT GOD IS NOT: God is not an impersonal essence nor merely a "higher power." Neither are God and Trinity simply singular names for what would otherwise be considered three gods (i.e. terms which would hide polytheism).

WHAT GOD IS: Though the Trinity is a mystery beyond comprehension, two analogies are often used to help explain what Trinity means. The first references the sun, and the second references man.

The Sun: The sun is characterized by three elements. (1) The ball of burning gas is the source of all (like the Father). (2) The light is visible to all (like the Son). (3) The heat is felt, but not seen (like the Holy Spirit or Comforter).

The sun has never been the sun without its light and heat, and the light and heat cannot exist without their source. In addition, while they may co-exist, they do not produce each other in and of themselves. (ex. You can’t read by the light of a heating pad, nor can you count on getting warm wherever it is bright.)

Man: It is said that each human has been made in the image of God, and as such each human bears similarities to our Trinitarian Lord and God: (1) Man's nous (i.e. complete mind and heart; including intellect, creativity, feelings, morality, intuition, etc.) is like the Father. (2) Man's flesh (both tangible and a temple of the Holy Spirit), is akin to the Son who became incarnate and was filled with the Holy Spirit. (3) Man's life (or breath) is akin the Holy Spirit.

Man (any human) is all three. There is never a time that man has existed (or could exist) without all three. For a human nous cannot exist without a body and life, a human body does not exist--at least at the start--without a nous and life, and a human life cannot exist without a nous and body.

The benefit and limitation of analogies: Each of these analogies is good at expressing a three-ness and one-ness with no polytheism. However, according to Saint Gregory the Theologian, trying to go further to comprehend unbegotten-ness (Father), begotten-ness (Son), or procession (Holy Spirit) leads to insanity. Therefore the Church traditionally approaches God in divine mystery (and apophatically), content to encounter Him rather than comprehend Him (for it is impossible for the created to comprehend the ineffable Creator).


Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one), which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[6] In discussing God's relationship to his creation, Eastern Orthodox theology distinguishes between God's eternal essence, which is totally transcendent, and his uncreated energies, which is how he reaches humanity.[6] The God who is transcendent and the God who touches mankind are one and the same.[6] That is, these energies are not something that proceed from God or that God produces, but rather they are God himself: distinct, yet inseparable from God's inner being.[7]

Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in a single God who is both three and one (triune); the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, "one in essence and undivided".[6] The Trinity, three distinct, divine persons (hypostases), without overlap or modality among them, who each have one divine essence (ousia, Greek: οὐσία)—uncreated, immaterial, and eternal.[8] The Father is eternal and not begotten and does not proceed from any, the Son is eternal and begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternal and proceeds from the Father.[6] Eastern Orthodox doctrine regarding the Trinity is summarised in the Nicene Creed.[9] The essence of God being that which is beyond human comprehension and cannot be defined or approached by human understanding.[10]

It is utter blasphemy in the eyes of Muslims and Jews to belief in such an absurd and contradicting concept like the Christian trinity. In fact I will go as far and say that it is an insult to the status of God. One of the worst blasphemies out there. You are basically saying that God is so weak that he died at the hands of mere humans?
Christianity, due to heavy Roman and Greek pagan influences which are well-known and documented thoroughly by historians, is the only Abrahamic religion that has this belief. The belief of saints (praying to them instead of God) is also unique to Christianity. There are many recorded murderers/bad people that have become saints by the Church, Catholic and Orthodox alike. How can any person pray to such people and hope for salvation?

God only sends Prophets, he does not need ordinary people (so-called Saints) etc. I could go on.

The video that I posted tell it very precisely.

Many parts of the Bible (New Testament) were written 100-200 years after the death of Prophet Isa (as). Translated from one language to another. Likely corrupted in the process too. We don't know almost anything about many of the authors of the Bible. All this are huge question marks and red flags.

Each to their own.

 

[Foinikas]

God only sends Prophets, he does not need ordinary people (so-called Saints) etc. I could go on.

According to whom? Prophets are saintly people too. Don't you know?

 

[Corruptistan]

According to whom? Prophets are saintly people too. Don't you know?

Prophets are directly guided by God and are only limited to a select few people. They are a rare appearance and are intended to guide people/nations that have led astray (forgotten the previous universal messages of the previous prophets) etc. We as Muslims belief that Prophet Muhammad (saws) is the final Prophet because his Prophetic message mirrors that of all the other known prophets. We belief that nothing new (groundbreaking in terms of core beliefs) will ever arrive again because Prophet Muhammad (saws) was a final messenger in a long list of Prophets who had the same core beliefs/messages from God. Mainly the belief in his oneness (monotheism) and submission to him and his will.

Prayer, alms, fasting, pilgrimage, belief in God and his Prophets, his holy book (s), Day of Judgement, predestination etc.

Muslims don't deny all of the Bible or Torah, only the beliefs that go against the Prophetic beliefs such as for instance trinity in the case of Christianity.

The main doctrinal difference between Islam and Judaism is that Jews don't belief in Prophet Muhammad (saws) and that they still await their Messiah. Otherwise the doctrinal beliefs are identical by large and in line with the universal Prophetic messages.

On the other hand the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have literally 10.000's of saints (many documented as mass murderers, for instance some of the Spanish/Portuguese "Saints" that the Catholic Church made saints after conquests of Latin America, many war mongering kings have been made saints as well etc.) if not 100.000's and new "saints" are being created each year if not each month!

Now those same Christians are praying to such people (normal people like you and me) like they would be praying to God! Not only that, there are specific saints for specific occasions. If your car is stolen you pray to saint x or y, if you seek a wife or a husband, you pray to saint x or y etc.

This is like pre-Christian Roman and Greek polytheism where you had a pantheon of Gods, a God of love, a God of War etc. that you prayed to depending on the context of your wishes.

Jews and Muslims have a completely different understanding of monotheism and the universal Prophetic message.

Therein lies the main difference between Islam and Judaism on one hand and Christianity on the other hand, irrespective of all 3 religions being Abrahamic.

 

[BHAN85]

So basically,you are talking like the Evangelicals. The fundamentalist Protestants in USA,who have no patristic tradition and here we're not talking about just patristic tradition,but you're discarding the whole Acts of the Apostles,the Epistoles and the Revelation!

Well but I'm not saying that gospels are true, I cant know it, I'm saying that those books are wisdom about human ethics.

I wouldn't recommend read St Paul delusions even to my worst enemies, what a boring guy.

And Revelations is a good book to read only under the influence of hard hallucinogens drugs, the only way to understand it .

I'm talking about Jesus as philosopher, not as divine character.

He was a great philosopher, a great man, a master of human ethics. I know that, but I can't know if God exists or not.

 

[Foinikas]

On the other hand the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have literally 10.000's of saints (many documented as mass murderers, for instance some of the Spanish/Portuguese "Saints" that the Catholic Church made saints after conquests of Latin America, many war mongering kings have been made saints as well etc.) if not 100.000's and new "saints" are being created each year if not each month!

I cannot talk about Catholic Saints,only Orthodox and the ones that we have in common,but God's Grace works through them. Through such people,who have achieved a level of spiritual height and thus can perform miracles,sometimes understand one's thoughts or see events of the future. All with God's Grace. I guess,you don't have saintly people in Islam?

Well but I'm not saying that gospels are true, I cant know it, I'm saying that those books are wisdom about human ethics.

I wouldn't recommend read St Paul delusions even to my worst enemies, what a boring guy.

And Revelations is a good book to read only under the influence of hard hallucinogens drugs, the only way to understand it .

I'm talking about Jesus as philosopher, not as divine character.

He was a great philosopher, a great man, a master of human ethics. I know that, but I can't know if God exists or not.

This is where you start becoming blasphemous and offending now. When you talk like this. And it's time to respect and back off.

 

[Corruptistan]

I cannot talk about Catholic Saints,only Orthodox and the ones that we have in common,but God's Grace works through them. Through such people,who have achieved a level of spiritual height and thus can perform miracles,sometimes understand one's thoughts or see events of the future. All with God's Grace. I guess,you don't have saintly people in Islam?


This is where you start becoming blasphemous and offending now. When you talk like this. And it's time to respect and back off.

In Islam there is no concept of saints as it is understood in Christianity. Neither in Judaism for that matter.

"Saints" in Islam, mostly used among Sufis, are essentially people that were regarded as especially pious during their time on this earth or who were believed to have been marked by a special divine favor or given exceptional gifts by God. Praying directly to such saints is blasphemy as per the Islamic and Judaic doctrine. Essentially respected/knowledgeable Muslims of their time who were often scholars of Islam. Some Sufi sects do it though but it is considered a sin by orthodox Islam because you are supposed to pray directly to God and not through the intermediary of ordinary humans no matter how pious or good those people were. Divine worship is limited to God and God alone, not humans.

Anyway if you want to know my honest opinion about Christianity in relation to Islam and Judaism, then the main difference is the trinity, how saints are regarded by Christians and rest are small theological differences that are not of big importance to the overall belief system and core tenants. Similarly in regards to Judaism, it is the Judaic rejection of Prophet Muhammad (saws) as the Messiah.

Having said that, I am a big proponent of Abrahamic understanading, cooperation (whenever possible) etc. but there are theological differences at the end of the day that each person has to decide on their own, where they stand. To me, Islam makes the most sense and has the clearest, most uncorrupted (from what I have studied so far) connection to the universal Prophetic doctrine and its core tenants of which the most important is the worship of God and monotheism among others that closely follow.

 

[BHAN85]

This is where you start becoming blasphemous and offending now. When you talk like this. And it's time to respect and back off.

I'm saying I can't know it certain things.

I'm judging those books by human point of view. Gospels are great books, 10/10, they deserve top mark in Amazon sellings.

St Paul is a boring writer, maybe he was God-inspired, maybe not, but I dont like him, it's my personal opinion about a man.

I asked to a philosophy student who ended his degree if she ever read 4 gospels, and she said no. I can't believe it, but that's due to western religious nutjobs that make the great humanistic ideas of gospels to be seen like crazy things.

 

[imadul]

I don't believe in traditions (most of them), you can call me Quranist, Pervaizi or whatever, doesn't matter to me. There are enough contradictions when it comes to traditions vs Quran. For me there is only one Hadeeth and that is Quran, nothing outside it.

I can go into details of where these 5 times daily ritual of Namaz came from, Hajj, Wudhu etc. but that would be too much for many to handle.

Any selfless good person is Mehdi and Isa Peace be upon him is not coming back (totally illogical and a borrowed fantasy)

I remember you said something like that, some previous topic...
That's fine. I am not trying to change you.

 

[imadul]

Jesus Christ is the Messiah. He has come. The Scriptures were fullfilled.

Can you plz give some more information?
Greek Orthodox dont believe in the second coming of Jesus?
Does Eastern Church believe that too?

Catholics believe in Rpture.
Thanks

 

[Foinikas]

Can you plz give some more information?
Greek Orthodox dont believe in the second coming of Jesus?
Does Eastern Church believe that too?

Catholics believe in Rpture.
Thanks

Greek Orthodox are Eastern Orthodox. We believe in the Second Coming of Jesus.

I quoted you some parts in a post earlier.

 

[Tamerlane]

You should really read the New Testament.

If you have 3.5 hours to spare for the redemption of your eternal soul then watch the following video. It gives you an academic view of why the claim that Jesus was crucified is not certain. It also provides a background of the origins of the gospels and how Paul took over Christianity from Jesus’ brother James.

Subscribe to Paul Williams’ channel, Blogging Theology, for very detailed discussions with Muslim and Christian scholars from top universities.