What are the chances of equipping Pakistani F-16 with Turkish SOM-B2

[Ali_Baba]

@Khafee but missile has been integrated by Turkey so the situation is way pass the integration phase the only thing left here is to know that can we buy them?

Turkey has the integration permission as the missile is clearly hanging with the wing of that F-16 of turkey.

The 250km range means we can buy the missile and the integration done by Turkey means they have permission. Now the question is can we buy them?

Turkeys version of the F16s(essentially their software) has differences compared to PAF variants, that would require an integration effort. Turkeys F16s are full Nato standard variants with all of the goodies, PAF versions are not. They are on a different software release.

 

[BHarwana]

Turkeys version of the F16s(essentially their software) has differences compared to PAF variants, that would require an integration effort. Turkeys F16s are full Nato standard variants with all of the goodies, PAF versions are not. They are on a different software release.

Please look at the image and you can see the targeting pod and version of F-16 being used to test both are available in Pakistan.

 

[Khafee]

Turkey is doing the integration for them selves all we need to do is buy. We don't need any approval for integration we can buy them off the shelf from Turkey now the main question is what is Turkish status on missile sales to foreign countries. Once turkey has integrated it missile can be fired from Pakistani F-16 as well because TAI did Pakistani F-16 upgrades on Turkish standards.

There seems to be a bit of an ambiguity in your statement.

PAF F16's were upgraded as per LM's standards, by Turkey. They did not add anything new from their end.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

We don't need to spend any R&D money, Turkey has done it. The missile is already on the wing of an F-16 in the image in OP. RA'AD is already on JF-17.


JF-17 has RA'AD, F-16 don't have them so SOM-B2 is available.

JF 17 doesnot have RA'AD

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee but missile has been integrated by Turkey so the situation is way pass the integration phase the only thing left here is to know that can we buy them?

Turkey has the integration permission as the missile is clearly hanging with the wing of that F-16 of turkey.

The 250km range means we can buy the missile and the integration done by Turkey means they have permission. Now the question is can we buy them?

The Question is NOT "if you can buy them."

The Question is "will the US give you permission for it"

Turkey will be ready to sell in a heartbeat, but without US approval:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what...th-turkish-som-b2.615834/page-2#post-11409039

 

[BHarwana]

The Question is NOT "if you can buy them."

The Question is "will the US give you permission for it"

Turkey will be ready to sell in a heartbeat, but without US approval:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what...th-turkish-som-b2.615834/page-2#post-11409039

Well that is the exact question I am asking. Because Turkey has integrated the SOM-B2 already and the same targeting pod which Pakistan uses is on the Turkish F-16 in the image. Although Pakistan uses is for JF-17. The only question remains that is if Turkey uses US made parts in SOM-B2 than there is an issue of US permission.

JF 17 doesnot have RA'AD

It has.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Well that is the exact question I am asking. Because Turkey has integrated the SOM-B2 already and the same targeting pod which Pakistan uses is on the Turkish F-16 in the image. Although Pakistan uses is for JF-17. The only question remains that is if Turkey uses US made parts in SOM-B2 than there is an issue of US permission.


It has.

Not till now

 

[Yaseen1]

no need of integrating alcm on f16 instead we should integrate alcm on jf17 block 3

 

[war&peace]

With all due respect, if we had permission to upgrade our F16s to carry SOWs, why would we need Turkish system when we got our own impressive arrays of SOWs? We developed H2 and H4 way back in early 2000s that's nearly two decades ago. Not counting Raad 1/2 and extended range unspecified SOW that we just revealed.

We don't have permission to integrate that is what I am saying and turkey has the permission my question is can we buy them from turkey or is there any US approval required in between?

I understand what he is referring to. Let me put in simple words

1. Pakistan cannot integrate or modify the new F16s (at least legally) so we cannot integrate our own weapons on F16s
2. However, SOM-B2 has been integrated by TuAF already on its F16
3. So now the question is can Pakistan buy SOM-B2 for its F16 ... Are there any technical or legal issues?

 

[CriticalThought]

The words of a professional.

No tinkering with US supplied equipment without American approval, applies to all countries using US equipment. If US does not permit, we cannot do flight trials without weapon ballistics data. If we do it by hit and trial, we could cause an aircraft crash, resulting in a great credibility loss to the manufacturer. In short no tinkering can be done with ANY system of US origin aircraft. This is especially true of aircraft which are operational in US inventory.

In Turkey's case, it is a NATO member and has certain privileges that we do not have.

If we try something clandestinely, and are caught, it could mean an immediate stoppage of spares support and the fleet would be grounded.

Sir, I have a question about the words of this professional. First of all, MIL-STD-1553 is an open standard, meaning anyone can integrate anything into the avionics. Second, I am confused about 'weapon ballistics data'. For the SOM, this data would be supplied by Turkey, but even that is not needed because SOM is already working on F-16s. This should be a simple buy and use thing. So the question is, are there any restrictions on using third party weapons designed for US equipment on purchased US fighters?

 

[Falcon26]

The SOM missile will be more appropriate for the JF-17 and it should be pursued rigorously.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I understand what he is referring to. Let me put in simple words

1. Pakistan cannot integrate or modify the new F16s (at least legally) so we cannot integrate our own weapons on F16s
2. However, SOM-B2 has been integrated by TuAF already on its F16
3. So now the question is can Pakistan buy SOM-B2 for its F16 ... Are there any technical or legal issues?

My question is , why you want to spend money on a weapon, when you already possess impressive arrays of SOWs, all made in Pakistan, which btw are now battle proven after 27th Feb surgical strikes on India?

I would rather develop BVRAAM with Turkey. We are highly dependant on China in this critical area.

 

[Ultima Thule]

@BHarwana Pakistan can't integrate SOM-B2 to its F-16 without US permission/Approval, whether Turkey is a NATO member or what, it doesn't matters, End of story @BHarwana

 

[TsAr]

Actually, PAF did practiced tossing nukes from the F-16s meaning these F-16s were somehow modified to carry the nukes. This is a well know fact that was discussed in details on now defunct PakistanDefenceForum and PakDef.Org forums.

I think we had that capability in A and B models that were bought in the 80's but that to was lost when they were upgraded @Oscar

 

[Path-Finder]

hmmn, The Mirage carrying all forms of missile and bombs is the best fore strike package as shown. F16+JF17 for escort and defence is best.