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What about jf-17 for bangladesh airforce?

Pakistan should sell JFT Block 1 only to BAF.

Selling JFT Block 2 to BAF would be a bad move because Bangladesh cannot be trusted if they will not share the technology with India ( Especially under AL/Hasina govt.).

We should be very wary of the Treacherous behaviour of Bangladesh. We should not forget how they stabbed us in the back recently with their vote against us in European Union.

If they can do that then they are also capable of selling us out to the Indians.

I think voting in favour of the preferential treatment of Pakistani garments would have bad effects on our own export. This is why it vetoed against that move. Note that, BD faces floods almost every year. But, Pakistan faced only once in Sindh.

Planes are a different matter. An airforce has to take into account of all the pluses and minuses before it makes a big purchase. When BAF can buy a F-7BGI at a one-third price of a JFT, there is no reason for it to opt for the latter. BAF is a small airforce with limited resource at its disposal. I think, people in this forum are mesmerized at the name of JFT.

But, the BGIs will be an upgraded version of BGs. Still we do not know, but, I think, it will contain most of the technologies that JFT has. I have also gone through the PLAAF policy. PLAAF will not discard its F-7G with WP-14 turbojet engine in favour of FC-1. Rather, it will keep on using an upgraded version of this plane alongwith a LIMITED NUMBER of J-10 and J-20, because the latter planes are very expensive to manufacture.

Note that China's declared policy was to discontinue the F-7G planes once it finds FC-1 to be a suitable substitute. But, China has decided not to adopt FC-1 for its airforce, but will keep on using a proved F-7G platform. Can someone tell us why China has decided not to use its FC-1 planes?
 
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FC1 (WS13) is still under evaluation by PLAAF and WS13 also still needs some time to develop the smooth
 
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eastwatch...

There is no evidence to suggest China decided not to or will not opt FC-1. J-10A/B will form the largest fleet in PLAAF. There is no declared policy of PLAAF/PLANF. Mere speculations.
 
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Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder ~ ASIAN DEFENSE

Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India’s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.

Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC.

Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov.

However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan.

This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.

The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.

So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s.

In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7 (a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT (Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese?

This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about.

This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.
 
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I think BD will get JFT block II... Block II is a whole diff level... Egypt and BD are buyers :tup:
 
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Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder ~ ASIAN DEFENSE

Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India’s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.

Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC.

Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov.

However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan.

This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.

The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.

So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s.

In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7 (a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT (Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese?

This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about.

This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.
Who ever has written this article doesn't know much about JF-17 and let me guess who are the critics Indians WOW Sir JF-17 level Block one can even many Fighter Planes of India and Block 2 is really advanced Plane and Pakistan will get 200 of them soon and also Pakistan is going for J-10 B and which also will be more than 100 in Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan has already started the work on Block 3 of JF-17 which is said to be the stealth one
 
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Who ever has written this article doesn't know much about JF-17 and let me guess who are the critics Indians WOW Sir JF-17 level Block one can even many Fighter Planes of India and Block 2 is really advanced Plane and Pakistan will get 200 of them soon and also Pakistan is going for J-10 B and which also will be more than 100 in Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan has already started the work on Block 3 of JF-17 which is said to be the stealth one


the latest the best! I mean block 3...of course
 
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Wait for next general election and if Khaleda Zia wins and become PM then you definitely have chance to sell this bird.
 
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JF 17 is best for BD is cost effective and on par with modern fighters.
 
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Asia Defense is certainly not owned by the Indians. If a defense magazine fingerpoints at certain defects of any plane it is the duty of the others to prove that the complaints are biased. Asia defense talks about the following drawbacks of JF-17:

1) JF-17 lacks an efficient aerodynamic platform that causes it to drag and, therefore, its speed is limited only to 1.6 mach.

2) Its avionics are copied by the Chinese and are of low quality and it has a maximum G loading of 8.

3) Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. Its thrust is only 18,300 lbs, and it is 19,200 lbs at only take off time when the air is DENSE.

3) It does not have a wing twist that makes it dangerous to manuever at a low speed.

There are certainly many other defects, as cited by the magazine, in the JF-17 that combinedly make JF-17 as an inferior plane. can someone answer to the claims made in the magazine?
 
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Asia Defense is certainly not owned by the Indians. If a defense magazine fingerpoints at certain defects of any plane it is the duty of the others to prove that the complaints are biased. Asia defense talks about the following drawbacks of JF-17:

1) JF-17 lacks an efficient aerodynamic platform that causes it to drag and, therefore, its speed is limited only to 1.6 mach.

2) Its avionics are copied by the Chinese and are of low quality and it has a maximum G loading of 8.

3) Its thrust to weight ratio is only 18,300 lbs, and it is 19,200 lbs when taking off in a DENSE air.

3) It does not have a wing twist that makes it dangerous to manuever at a low speed.

There are certainly many other defects in the JF-17 that combinedly make JF-17 as an inferior plane. can someone answer to the claims made in the magazine?

Try going through the JF-17 thread and look in specific for the posts by 3 guys - Najam Khan, pshamim and muradk ! Two of the three are ex-PAF pilots whilst one also worked for General Dynamics and NK is just plain brilliant; so I'm sure you'd end up with a satisfied answer.

P.S The rest of 'em have learned quite a lot over the years so I'm sure it would be worth reading the posts of some of the other seasoned posters in that thread !
 
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