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We’re Zoroastrians first

ghazi52

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We’re Zoroastrians first


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PHOTO: REUTERS

Often, during first-time meetings with non-Zoroastrians, when I identify myself as a ‘Zoroastrian’, I get a puzzled look in response. When I say ‘Parsi’, they ease up and smile and promptly quote a list of friends expecting me to know them or be somehow related to them. The impression everyone is under is that ‘everyone knows everyone in the community’ because we are so few in number and live in tightly-knit communities. As a result, for instant acknowledgement from the world, many of us have come to use the words interchangeably, which has not only further encouraged this misunderstanding but will eventually make the world forget who we truly are.

A recent example is the identification of one of our brightest young minds, Nergis Mavalvala, in local publications. The scientist who was part of a team responsible for the recent detection of gravitational waves belongs to the illustrious Zoroastrian community, but she was first identified as a Parsi. Have you ever come across an article on a celebrated Pakistani Muslim or for that matter even a Christian or Hindu whose sect or denomination took centre-stage as their religious identity? Nergis Mavalvala is indeed a Parsi, but we all fall under the larger umbrella of Zoroastrians.

Pakistan-born scientist played part in discovery of gravitational waves

To get to the root of the problem, let me now indulge you in a history lesson. Zoroastrianism is the ancient religion of Persia or modern-day Iran and adherents of the faith are called Zoroastrians. After the Arab invasion of the country in 630 AD, a vast majority were massacred and those who survived were forced into slavery or converted. To escape persecution, many Zoroastrians fled Persia for the safety of the Indian subcontinent and that’s where the chapter on Parsis begins: the Zoroastrians of Persia who settled in India became known as Parsis.

It really irks me when I read entries such as ‘Parsiism’ or ‘Parseeism’ in the online encyclopaedia Britannica, which describes it as how the religion came to be known in India. Indian Zoroastrians (Parsis), and those who later migrated from India to other countries, might identify themselves as Parsis, but if you ask them about their faith, the chance of them saying ‘Parsiism’ is as good as Indian-occupied Kashmir becoming a part of Pakistan. Although it is true that during the process of assimilation, Indian Zoroastrians adopted many of the traits of the dominant culture, such as wearing a sari and making a rangoli to mark a festive occasion, they still recite the same prayers and bow down before the same God. At the World Zoroastrian Congress, which is held almost every year, Zoroastrians from across the globe gather under a single roof and participate in discussions to extend knowledge about one of the world’s oldest monotheistic religions. We celebrate the traditions we adopted in India and we also pay tribute to our Persian heritage. Many of us are proud Parsis, but all of us are zealous Zoroastrians.

Today, Zoroastrians are scattered across the globe. We are perhaps the world’s smallest stateless religious minority and face imminent extinction, yet we have left an indelible mark upon this planet. Since our endless contributions to society will be the only legacy we leave behind, all I ask is when the world fondly remembers the likes of Nergis Mavalvala for being part of important breakthroughs and advancements, we would like to be celebrated as Zoroastrians. If every Zoroastrian is first identified as a Parsi, Google will deceive entire generations long after us into believing that ‘Parsiism’ was actually a religion.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 17th, 2016.
 
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Looks like these days pakistanis have nothing to think about and nothing to talk about. Hence making issues out of non-issues. Math is the perfect occupation for bored minds. Its full of apparently useless but interesting things that can employ idle minds. Like this:
2016-01-11-straight-and-narrow.gif

Draw two parallel lines. Fix a point on one line and move a second point along the other line. If an equilateral triangle is constructed with these two points as two of its vertices, then as the second point moves, the third vertex of the triangle will trace out a straight line.
 
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Rather ironic because Zar-astra was actually from Bactria in Afghanistan.

Zoroastrian is the religion founded by an Afghan and adopted by the Persian empire as its state religion.

Parsees are the Persians following the Zoroastrian religion who fled Persia following the Arab invasions.

I'm really not sure what the author of this article is trying to say.
 
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i won't address here the temporary bubble called "gravitational waves" but write a bit about the political side.

is the author, ms. dilaira dubash, saying that she is first a zoroastrian ( or parsi ) and then the citizen of india, pakistan, australia etc??

in that case, why not go one progressive step further and say that 'we are humans first'??

and lastly, imagine if a indian muslim declared that 'i am muslim first and then a indian'... oh, the hullabaloo that will cause !! :lol:

this explains why sanghis are absent from this thread.
 
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What is common between Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Taoism ?

None of them indulge in proselytization. They encourage debate which leads to open societies and birth of brilliant minds.

Islam is not the only religion which endorses conversion. Christianity is far more aggressive in converting people than Islam. The core belief of these two religions is everything else is false and corrupted except my religion which is the only truth. Islamic belief is Christianity is a religion of Allah sent to Jesus Christ for a specific group of people but later got terribly corrupted hence Allah sent Muhammad to restore the original teaching of Jesus Christ through Islam but he is ranked higher than Jesus because Muhammad was sent for the whole mankind, not for specific group of people but in Christianity everything is false except Christianity. Any new revelation by any prophet is outright rejected in that faith.
 
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What is common between Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Taoism ?

None of them indulge in proselytization. They encourage debate which leads to open societies and birth of brilliant minds.

Not true at all.

Hinduism and Buddhism have a long history of wars and conflict between each other.
Buddhists invaded and wiped out the indigenous religions in Tibet.
The Mauryans, one of the most warlike and ruthless empires were Jains, whose atrocities the Afghans never forgot.
Sikhism...well go ask the Pakistani and Indian Punjabi Muslims.
Judaism...have you read the Old Testament??
Zoroastrianism, that would be news to the people of Balkh.
Confucianism presumably the Analects are just a flight of fancy?
Taoism, you obviously haven't read the Chinese history of the numerous cults that tried to seize power.

In short, you obviously haven't read much.
 
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Not true at all.

Hinduism and Buddhism have a long history of wars and conflict between each other.
Buddhists invaded and wiped out the indigenous religions in Tibet.
The Mauryans, one of the most warlike and ruthless empires were Jains, whose atrocities the Afghans never forgot.
Sikhism...well go ask the Pakistani and Indian Punjabi Muslims.
Judaism...have you read the Old Testament??
Zoroastrianism, that would be news to the people of Balkh.
Confucianism presumably the Analects are just a flight of fancy?
Taoism, you obviously haven't read the Chinese history of the numerous cults that tried to seize power.

In short, you obviously haven't read much.
Although I think that all religions are stupid but I would like to point that the person you quoted is perhaps trying to talk about the oriental religions not proclaiming indoctrination of beliefs.

They don't say that they are the absolute truth and no other way of attaining knowledge of the creator exists, unlike Abrahmic religions.
 
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Although I think that all religions are stupid but I would like to point that the person you quoted is perhaps trying to talk about the oriental religions not proclaiming indoctrination of beliefs.

They don't say that they are the absolute truth and no other way of attaining knowledge of the creator exists, unlike Abrahmic religions.

Paritosh, well for a start Judaism is absolutely monotheistic. From the orthodox Jewish perspective even Christians are pagans.

Confucianism rejects religious belief but accepts the ritual of worshiping ancestors, not because Confucius believed in an after-life but because he believed in the ritual of showing respect to the departed of your own family. So yes it rejects other belief systems. When Buddhist priests first arrived in China with a relic containing the body part of a deceased Buddhist monk, the Confucian officials asked the Emperor to burn it, and expel all the Buddhists.

I could go on....
 
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Paritosh, well for a start Judaism is absolutely monotheistic. From the orthodox Jewish perspective even Christians are pagans.

That is understandable. Religions are for power-hoarding as well.
Hindu priests hated the fact that Sikhism was gaining prominence in the 16th century and asked AKbar to punish the Sikh guru.
Christians would not admit that Islam is an update on the Judeo-christian belief system and neither would the Jews. Likewise, Ahmadiyas will not be accepted, nor will any other new update by the Muslims.
Not wanting to lose the flock is common to all religions.

Confucianism rejects religious belief but accepts the ritual of worshiping ancestors, not because Confucius believed in an after-life but because he believed in the ritual of showing respect to the departed of your own family. So yes it rejects other belief systems. When Buddhist priests first arrived in China with a relic containing the body part of a deceased Buddhist monk, the Confucian officials asked the Emperor to burn it, and expel all the Buddhists.
I could go on....
Similar to what I wrote about not wanting to give up power.
Correct me if I am wrong but Apostasy is not called out in the oriental religions, unlike the Abrahmic religions which had the long-term vision of creating barriers to exiting the faith.
Most Hindus escaped caste based deprivation and other social evils by converting to a lot of other faiths. No clause in Hindusim that can stop them from doing that, except the fury of the Brahmins.
There is a reason why so many religions came out of India, people were allowed thought experiments.
 
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That is understandable. Religions are for power-hoarding as well.
Hindu priests hated the fact that Sikhism was gaining prominence in the 16th century and asked AKbar to punish the Sikh guru.
Christians would not admit that Islam is an update on the Judeo-christian belief system and neither would the Jews. Likewise, Ahmadiyas will not be accepted, nor will any other new update by the Muslims.
Not wanting to lose the flock is common to all religions.


Similar to what I wrote about not wanting to give up power.
Correct me if I am wrong but Apostasy is not called out in the oriental religions, unlike the Abrahmic religions which had the long-term vision of creating barriers to exiting the faith.
Most Hindus escaped caste based deprivation and other social evils by converting to a lot of other faiths. No clause in Hindusim that can stop them from doing that, except the fury of the Brahmins.
There is a reason why so many religions came out of India, people were allowed thought experiments.

Apostasy is called out in some oriental religions; as I've demonstrated, the Confucians regarded Buddhism as a foreign cult which was to be expelled from China. There's also the example of the Japanese Shinto believers forcing Christians to convert to Shintoism. Some of the Zoroastrian priests and kings were very strong persecutors of Buddhists. And in India of course there's the 'Ghar Wapsi' movement.

Historically in Muslim states the opposition to 'apostasy' wasn't based on the idea that the convert is to be persecuted because they have 'left the faith'; it was traditionally on the basis that while living in a particular state they had 'renounced their oath of allegiance' to the leader of that state. It wasn't so much that they had rebelled against the faith; but that they were viewed as having rebelled against the state.

Please don't misunderstand and think that I'm saying Muslims were any better than anyone else, I just don't see them as being worse than any other community.

Tibetologist now agree with Baumann's conclusions, which essentially call the entire framework of their specialty into question. They also contradict both Beijing's and the Dalai Lama's interpretation of history....

The murder was followed by a decades-long, bloody religious war. "There is no doubt," says Baumann, "that Buddhism also came into Tibet carrying the sword, and that it erased the indigenous culture in much the same way that the communists later wiped out the Buddhists."

The last decisive battle was probably waged in the Garuda Valley. The fact that Baumann actually found the place involved no small measure of explorer's luck. The only thing that was clear to Baumann was that it had to be near the tiny village of Kyunglung, west of the holy Mt. Kailash.

Tibet's Lost City: Atlantis in the Himalayas - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The reason so many ideas came out of India is because it had a very large population in comparison to the rest of the world. The middle-eastern world until Baghdad became established had very few areas as densely populated. However once they were populated and urban civilization was established, there were lots of ideas from the middle-east as well.
 
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The core belief of these two religions is everything else is false and corrupted except my religion which is the only truth..
Its the core belief of every religious/non religious person that his/her own beliefs are true thats why they stick to those beliefs and keep firm believe in them.. even atheists would say that his beliefs are correct while religious people have false beliefs as they created cpncept of God in their mind when there is no God as per true beliefs of atheists. If there are two religion with contradictory beliefs and practices. Can they boht be true? No
 
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What is common between Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Taoism ?

None of them indulge in proselytization. They encourage debate which leads to open societies and birth of brilliant minds.

why would any sensible person in a far-off land want to adopt and promote the oppressive, unjust and anti-human brahminical ideology?? :)

islam, like modern socialism/communism, is a human-uniting faith, without any discriminatory thing like the caste system and without a oppressive economic system and without regard for country of birth ( anti-nationalism )... to the contrary, through brahminical ideology, i have been called 'mleccha' by some sanghi members... 'mleccha' has no equivalent in islam or marxian/leninst socialism/communism.

as for zoroastrianism, disregarding all that sentimentality about "ooh, the parsis are a dwindling minority", we must speak about the inherent racism and ritualism in this faith... @vsdoc , the last indian parsi member, despite being a fellow tharki and despite being a doctor, believed in the zoroastrian concept of 'dhera' ( someone of "impure blood" therefore to be shunned )... how can someone be allowed to have such a anti-human bunch of beliefs??

this should be the last time any member speaks of this.
 
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why would any sensible person in a far-off land want to adopt and promote the oppressive, unjust and anti-human brahminical ideology?? :)

islam, like socialism/communism, is a human-uniting faith, without any discriminatory thing like the caste system and without a oppressive economic system and without regard for country of birth ( anti-nationalism )... to the contrary, through brahminical ideology,i have been called 'mleccha' by some sanghi members... 'mleccha' has no equivalent in islam or marxian/leninst socialism/communism.

as for zoroastrianism, disregarding all that sentimentality about "ooh, the parsis are a dwindling minority", we must speak about the inherent racism and ritualism in this faith... @vsdoc , the last indian parsi member, despite being a fellow tharki and despite being a doctor, believed in the zoroastrian concept of 'dhera' ( someone of "impure blood" therefore to be shunned )... how can someone be allowed to have such a anti-human bunch of beliefs??

this should be the last time any member speaks of this.
Every religion is oppressive,anti human and unjust in some way or the other
Calling Brahmin ideology as wrong and Islamic ideology as human ideology is like comparing bad side of one part with good side of another and you are being biased here
You should compare these on simillar terms
You said unjust
Dont you think polygamy which is supported by Shariah under the Islamic law is unjust for women
You talked about Oppression
Koran says women belong to men
"Men have authority over women, for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient … and those you fear may be rebellious, admonish them to their couches, and beat them”. (The Koran, Women, verse 38)

If this is not oppression then what is

You mentioned anti human
Considering non Muslims as kaffirs isnt actually a humane thing....

I dont support the ill practices of Brahmin society as well but you are presenting one side of the coin.
 
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Every religion is oppressive,anti human and unjust in some way or the other
Calling Brahmin ideology as wrong and Islamic ideology as human ideology is like comparing bad side of one part with good side of another and you are being biased here
You should compare these on simillar terms
You said unjust
Dont you think polygamy which is supported by Shariah under the Islamic law is unjust for women
You talked about Oppression
Koran says women belong to men
"Men have authority over women, for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient … and those you fear may be rebellious, admonish them to their couches, and beat them”. (The Koran, Women, verse 38)

If this is not oppression then what is

You mentioned anti human
Considering non Muslims as kaffirs isnt actually a humane thing....

I dont support the ill practices of Brahmin society as well but you are presenting one side of the coin.

thank you for being calmly responsive.

allow me to reply in some time.
 
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