Went for passport renewal today..

[KingMamba]

I wonder why one need to expose if other is not a muslim or if one is good or bad muslim.Don't you think none was given this right to pass judgement on others.Its all between that person and the Allah (swt).

The point is Muslims cannot declare one another kaffir amongst themselves as that is supposed to be left to Allah however whenever one of the false claimers arose it was common practice to treat them as Kaffir. I mean the man they follow claimed to be the Mehdi, Jesus reincarnated, and he even claimed to be Krishna that Hindus are waiting for (his words not mine if you are a hindu please clarify if you are waiting for krishna or not). So the point being this man was not just claiming authority over Muslims but he also claimed dominion over all Christians and Hindus as well. In fact one of his most fierce opposition was a christian named Abdullah Khan Atham and he claimed he would die a miserable death however it did not happen lol. People must realize that it is not like only Pakistan has declared them not Muslim in fact it was a unanimous decision by all Muslims majority countries world wide.

 

[SamantK]

Because the world media is not forcing Christian to call Muslim a Christian sect. We as a Muslim state doing nothing wrong protecting our identity. Yes if we claim to be a secular state and then put this declaration that will be wrong.

So you mean to say you will act under duress whether it is necessary or not?

Tell me how does a document like Passport protect your Identity? Can you stop the feeling an Ahmediya has in his heart by throwing his passport in his face?

In my own view the purpose of this was too inform the uninformed that what the qadiani were propagating was not Islam and for the most part it got that point across however they failed to mention that just because they are not Muslim that does not mean that they are any less than human.

And what has it achieved, complete supremacy over Qadiani's, are they are not being persecuted anymore since it is mentioned in the Passport application form?

 

[KingMamba]

We Pakistanis are a confused bunch. They like to say they like Islamic rule, but have never voted Islamic parties in power. They like to say they are against Secularism but in all the elections only the secular parties have come to power (but they like to keep pretending they are very Islamic but pictures of their un-Islamism are available all over the internet).



I know, and I usually point this out to Musharraf's champions that for all that he was, I saw Mullahs make him say on live TV that Ahmedis are non-Muslims. He was doing his ayi bai shaeen... They are like - Nahi abhi declare karo!

You are right it is a travesty that Pakistan considers itself an Islamic Republic but that does not change the fact that Qadiani are non Muslim and they wouldn't be given so much problems if they would stop trying to spread their lies. I actually have a friend who is Qadiani and when most people ask him he replies Ahmadi before Muslim.

So you mean to say you will act under duress whether it is necessary or not?

Tell me how does a document like Passport protect your Identity? Can you stop the feeling an Ahmediya has in his heart by throwing his passport in his face?



And what has it achieved, complete supremacy over Qadiani's, are they are not being persecuted anymore since it is mentioned in the Passport application form?

No one said that they should be persecuted it doesn't say that anywhere on that application either. Besides most Qadiani write no to that declaration and no one says anything to them.

 

[scrumpy]

No we in UK had to declare our Religion this time round while filling in the electoral register form...It was mendatory and an arrestable offense not to declare it..

This is not true. I've never had to fill in my religion in the electoral registration form.
There was a question in the census form though and you can choose not to respond. You also have an option to put in "No religion" which I did. A lot of people also put in Jedi too. Jedi census phenomenon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-- Edit --

You have clarified this point in a later post but your premise about the collection of data for religion is wrong. Copying from the humanists websites which spearheaded the no religion campaign

http://www.humanism.org.uk/campaigns/census-2011/

"Apart from the inaccuracy of the data collected on religious affiliation, there are real, practical problems with the use of such data. The Census data on religion says nothing about the actual religious practice, involvement, belief or belonging of the population. However, both central and local government use such data in resource allocation and for targeting equality initiatives. And the figure stating that 72% of the population are ‘Christian’ has been used in a variety of ways, such as to justify the continuing presence of Bishops in the House of Lords, to justify the state-funding of faith schools (and their expansion), to justify and increase religious broadcasting and to exclude the voices of humanists in Parliament and elsewhere. The question is not fit for the purposes for which it was included, for the first time, in 2001."

 

[ajtr]

The point is Muslims cannot declare one another kaffir amongst themselves as that is supposed to be left to Allah however whenever one of the false claimers arose it was common practice to treat them as Kaffir.

but it happen day to day basis people of one sect calling followers of other sect as qayadin,kafir.This what called vigilantism which is strictly prohibited in Quran.

I mean the man they follow claimed to be the Mehdi, Jesus reincarnated, and he even claimed to be Krishna that Hindus are waiting for (his words not mine if you are a hindu please clarify if you are waiting for krishna or not). So the point being this man was not just claiming authority over Muslims but he also claimed dominion over all Christians and Hindus as well. In fact one of his most fierce opposition was a christian named Abdullah Khan Atham and he claimed he would die a miserable death however it did not happen lol. People must realize that it is not like only Pakistan has declared them not Muslim in fact it was a unanimous decision by all Muslims majority countries world wide.

What you are saying is counted as apostasy.And many scholars differs on the punishment for it.Many do believe that believe that its for the Allah (swt) to decide about the punishment its way beyond man to judge others.Thats reformist perspective i mentioned.And regarding the said person claiming to be reincarnation of Jesus or Krishna then also Religious Vigilantism is not permitted in both these religious thoughts.(Hindus/Christians Plz confirm).

 

[Donatello]

Last time I travelled to one of the country they stopped me on UK airport for few minutes and even asked about the sect I belonged to ---- Religion was not enough that they enquired every in and outs of me and even the names of the Mosques I attend in UK and how many times a week/month/year I go to those mosques

Yeah security situation so I don't mind but it's not like other countries are so liberal that they will never ask about your faith

When i arrived in UK for studies, for the first time, they asked me the exact same thing. Like do you pray? Are you sunni or shia? Do you go to Mosque? I was like WTF? Never asked me anything when i was in USA.

 

[Bhai Zakir]

Actually village Pakistanis are very uninformed. Go to any Pakistani village and many don't even know the basics of Islam. In Pakistan you can convert illetrate villagers for a few thousand rupees, so both Christian, Ahmedi, Taliban missionaries are taking advantage of this. Thus these steps are required by the Govt.

Land of pure?? Is it the pakistan its founders have dreamed?

 

[Jango]

We Pakistanis are a confused bunch. They like to say they like Islamic rule, but have never voted Islamic parties in power. They like to say they are against Secularism but in all the elections only the secular parties have come to power (but they like to keep pretending they are very Islamic but pictures of their un-Islamism are available all over the internet).



I know, and I usually point this out to Musharraf's champions that for all that he was, I saw Mullahs make him say on live TV that Ahmedis are non-Muslims. He was doing his ayi bai shaeen... They are like - Nahi abhi declare karo!

Asim, Islamic republic of pakistan, in which no law shall be against the principles of islam, has granted the top officials immunity from everything.

 

[ajtr]

Last time I travelled to one of the country they stopped me on UK airport for few minutes and even asked about the sect I belonged to ---- Religion was not enough that they enquired every in and outs of me and even the names of the Mosques I attend in UK and how many times a week/month/year I go to those mosques

Yeah security situation so I don't mind but it's not like other countries are so liberal that they will never ask about your faith

Never faced such a situation neither in USA nor in UK .But USA is more free than UK .Uk i feel more on conservative side.Never liked UK.

 

[regular]

Land of pure?? Is it the pakistan its founders have dreamed?

Yes they dream to serve their british masters better in future....cuz I guess they didn't have any other dream........I don't know , I could be mistaken........

 

[scrumpy]

Never faced such a situation neither in USA nor in UK .But USA is more free than UK .Uk i feel more on conservative side.Never liked UK.

Neither have I ever been asked about my faith. That could be because our passports do not mention our faith. I don't think that there are many nationalities which mention religion on their passports so the Pakistani passport could be unique in that respect. What looks out of the ordinary generally gets picked up.

I would disagree with you on UK being more conservative. Americans are far more liable to wear religion on their sleeve when compared to some one from the UK. UK is far more liberal in that respect. Nick Clegg, the deputy Prime Minister is an atheist who interned with Christopher Hitchens. Declaring yourself an atheist in the US on the other hand would be political suicide.

 

[ajtr]

Neither have I ever been asked about my faith. That could be because our passports do not mention our faith. I don't think that there are many nationalities which mention religion on their passports so the Pakistani passport could be unique in that respect. What looks out of the ordinary generally gets picked up.

I would disagree with you on UK being more conservative. Americans are far more liable to wear religion on their sleeve when compared to some one from the UK. UK is far more liberal in that respect. Nick Clegg, the deputy Prime Minister is an atheist who interned with Christopher Hitchens. Declaring yourself an atheist in the US on the other hand would be political suicide.

Watever i for one didnt like uk compared to usa.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Were you expecting a declaration in case of "atheist"? I know its 2012 bollywood coolness is in every corner of Pakistan but it does not mean we should divorce from our religion. And this nation would not have came to being if the religion "islam" was not practiced in this land.

 

[Zarvan]

Were you expecting a declaration in case of "atheist"? I know its 2012 bollywood coolness is in every corner of Pakistan but it does not mean we should divorce from our religion. And this nation would not have came to being if the religion "islam" was not practiced in this land.

Islam is the most practised religion in the whole world and we sacrificed one million Muslims for this country and now we can't allow some false people to claim themselves as Muslims so they will have to clarify their stance when applying for Passport that is it