Went for passport renewal today..

[Roybot]

Can ahmediyas go to mecca and perform hajj?

Don't think so. Indian Ahmediyas can I think.

 

[Jade]

Don't think so. Indian Ahmediyas can I think.

Yes, I know a couple Ahmediyas from Hyderabad who performed Hajj

 

[airmarshal]

None of us has a God given right to say who is impostor and who isn't.

It is Allah's decision to judge one's heart and figure this out.

We know who is Ahmdi in our neighborhood. We also know where their mosque is. They can live peacefully and worship in their mosque.

Why do we have to deplore them?

The only thing we tell our family is to not pray in their mosque. But then they are not pulling us in their mosque anyway.

So it is not a big deal who says what. As long they don't pick up a gun and force us to follow one Sharia or the other.

The way I see is, that Saudis and Iranis and their dimwit Pakistani followers are the biggest criminals as they use force to coerce people into their faith.

Come out of your hate-filled life. or at least keep your hate to UK, while let us Pakistanis live in Pakistan in peace where anyone should be able to practice peacefully whatever religion faith they want to follow.

Well here in Canada they do pursue people to pray in their mosque. So if they are given that liberty, which 'liberals' want to have them, they will do it PAkistan as well. In Canada and in many other countries, they actively convert people to their brand of religion.

Can ahmediyas go to mecca and perform hajj?

No they cant. Thats one of the reasons to have this type of declaration.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Devil is loosing his powers because God has taken his place.

 

[KingMamba]

Can ahmediyas go to mecca and perform hajj?

Yes only because when you go to mecca they ask if you are Muslim and they say yes. LOL

Well here in Canada they do pursue people to pray in their mosque. So if they are given that liberty, which 'liberals' want to have them, they will do it PAkistan as well. In Canada and in many other countries, they actively convert people to their brand of religion.



No they cant. Thats one of the reasons to have this type of declaration.

Yes they can and they do my friend is qadiani he went to hajj although if they knew he was an qadiani he wouldnt have been allowed in Mecca.

Don't think so. Indian Ahmediyas can I think.

Only if they don't tell any of the people in Saudi that they are qadiani or they would be kicked out.

Yes, I know a couple Ahmediyas from Hyderabad who performed Hajj

See my post.

Dear sir, collecting data does not mean denouncing what you believe in esp in terms of religion...

Well if they believe in the above which is listed than they are not Muslim. The question is are you Muslim they can just answer no which they do.

I've seen many time that ahmadiya are being now forced on us by many ......yes to call one self a Muslim it is necessary to accept basic principle of islaam. Ahmadiya or qadiyani are different religion. Yes they accept Muhammad as messenger but contradict that he is the last messenger. Why do Christians around the world call us Muslim. Why don't they just call us Christian. We accept Jesus as gods messenger but we don't agree with other faiths of them as Jesus is son of God etc that's why..., its not discrimination its protecting our identity ...

Qadianis should be happy that they aren't asked if they are qadiani while in Saudi Arabia, Saudis would be much more harsh on them.

 

[Awesome]

Basically if you claim to be a Muslim

My problem with the process arises, why should one have to claim to be a Muslim?

The other problem is a claim is the same like a Shahadat?

What does Allah ask of you as Kalima-e-Shahadat?

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللّٰهِؕ

There is no god but Allah, Muhammad [peace be upon him] is the messenger of Allah.

Now compare it with the long winded demand of the government of Pakistan...

Who is Supreme when it comes to your personal beliefs? Allah or Government?

So perhaps government should not be interested in who is Muslim and who is not.

 

[KingMamba]

My problem with the process arises, why should one have to claim to be a Muslim?

The other problem is a claim is the same like a Shahadat?

What does Allah ask of you as Kalima-e-Shahadat?



Now compare it with the long winded demand of the government of Pakistan...

Who is Supreme when it comes to your personal beliefs? Allah or Government?

So perhaps government should not be interested in who is Muslim and who is not.

The government is wrong to have anyone declare their religion when applying for passport however they are not wrong when they say Qadianis are non Muslim.

 

[Awesome]

Why does ANYONE need to know what religion you are ? What does it have to do with getting a passport ?

There was this huge uproar by the usual Mullah parties in the 70s, when Benazir's father, papa Bhutto got into the act to get some votes and declared Ahmedi's constitutionally non-Muslims.

Now an SOP was developed by the next leader (Zia) who was even closer with the Mullah parties, he first introduced religion field on the passport and then to ensure Ahmedis don't make it on it as Muslim he put this little declaration.

This thing has such a history of personal gain and politics rather than any spiritual motivation.

 

[Hyde]

My problem with the process arises, why should one have to claim to be a Muslim?

The other problem is a claim is the same like a Shahadat?

What does Allah ask of you as Kalima-e-Shahadat?



Now compare it with the long winded demand of the government of Pakistan...

Who is Supreme when it comes to your personal beliefs? Allah or Government?

So perhaps government should not be interested in who is Muslim and who is not.

There is no disagreement in that and I have said it myself that I do not support such laws in Pakistan. I was only pointing to the fact that if there is someone asks about my religion while I am walking on the street, I will not be saying to him that I am only answerable to such questions before my God and you are nobody to ask such questions. So this section is not hurting me as it is not causing any discrimination towards the Pakistanis and if they delete it, it's good but if they don't it's not the worst thing happening in Pakistan right now. BTW, I noticed this column was deleted in 2004 but the MMA protests caused it to be reinstated once again.

For the MMA, omitting religion would allow Ahmadis—an Islamic sect declared non-Muslim and heretical in Pakistan's 1973 constitution—to go on pilgrimage to Islam's holy city of Makkah.

PAKISTAN Passports without religion cause rift - Asia News

 

[Awesome]

The government is wrong to have anyone declare their religion when applying for passport however they are not wrong when they say Qadianis are non Muslim.

We Pakistanis are a confused bunch. They like to say they like Islamic rule, but have never voted Islamic parties in power. They like to say they are against Secularism but in all the elections only the secular parties have come to power (but they like to keep pretending they are very Islamic but pictures of their un-Islamism are available all over the internet).

There is no disagreement in that and I have said it myself that I do not support such laws in Pakistan. I was only pointing to the fact that if there is someone asks about my religion while I am walking on the street, I will not be saying to him that I am only answerable to such questions before my God and you are nobody to ask such questions. So this section is not hurting me as it is not causing any discrimination towards the Pakistanis and if they delete it, it's good but if they don't it's not the worst thing happening in Pakistan right now. BTW, I noticed this column was deleted in 2004 but the MMA protests caused it to be reinstated once again.



PAKISTAN Passports without religion cause rift - Asia News

I know, and I usually point this out to Musharraf's champions that for all that he was, I saw Mullahs make him say on live TV that Ahmedis are non-Muslims. He was doing his ayi bai shaeen... They are like - Nahi abhi declare karo!

 

[SamantK]

The government is wrong to have anyone declare their religion when applying for passport however they are not wrong when they say Qadianis are non Muslim.

IMHO it is not the job of the govt. to enforce the belief, they are better left to people who practice them.. Even then, denouncing their belief in a formal government document is a folly, unless for a specific purpose

 

[Zarvan]

They have done the right thing and they should introduce religion section on Identity Cards to

My problem with the process arises, why should one have to claim to be a Muslim?

The other problem is a claim is the same like a Shahadat?

What does Allah ask of you as Kalima-e-Shahadat?



Now compare it with the long winded demand of the government of Pakistan...

Who is Supreme when it comes to your personal beliefs? Allah or Government?

So perhaps government should not be interested in who is Muslim and who is not.

As we are Muslims and follow Islam than it is of utmost important for government to know who is Muslims and who is not because we have laws related to these issues and lot of laws which we have to implement

 

[Roybot]

Only if they don't tell any of the people in Saudi that they are qadiani or they would be kicked out.

Yeah well they don't have to, they see themselves as Muslims anyways.

 

[Al Bhatti]

How is your family name column?

The family name / surname column is not used properly in all except few Pakistani passports.

For example if your name is Muhammad Ali the employees in the embassy/consulate put Muhammad as first name and Ali as surname. They are screwing the surnames in the database.

My father and my grandfather have just one name unlike first names like Muhammad Ali and when he got the new computerized passport recently the passport had the following

First name: ABC
Father's name XYZ + Family name
Surname : father's name + family name !!!

When he inquired about the mistake he was told that it is as per his NICOP. In that card it showed his name as ABC and his father name as XYZ + family name. We did not find it wrong as it was as per the old manual passport first name = ABC , father's name = XYZ + family name as those passports did not have surname/family name column.

They then asked to amend the NICOP card and we did it as per what they wanted and the new card showed the first name as ABC + family name and father's name as XYZ + family name

we then applied for a revised passport and when we received it , the first name was ABC, father's name as XYZ + family name and family name column again showing family name!!!

In my previous company i saw that all the employees had their names screwed up as their actual names consists of two names like Muhammad Ali or
Muhammad Aslam and in the passport Muhammad is shown as first name and Ali / Aslam is shown as surname.

Really those guys at the embassy/consulate don't know the difference between a family name and a name??

A screwed fxcxed up database by NADRA.

I would like to see the details in the passport in English + Urdu and not just English, this is Pakistani passport and not the passport of an English country.

 

[SamantK]

How is your family name column?

The family name / surname column is not used properly in all except few Pakistani passports.

For example if your name is Muhammad Ali the employees in the embassy/consulate put Muhammad as first name and Ali as surname. They are screwing the surnames in the database.

My father and my grandfather have just one name unlike first names like Muhammad Ali and when he got the new computerized passport recently the passport had the following

First name: ABC
Father's name XYZ + Family name
Surname : father's name + family name !!!

When he inquired about the mistake he was told that it is as per his NICOP. In that card it showed his name as ABC and his father name as XYZ + family name. We did not find it wrong as it was as per the old manual passport first name = ABC , father's name = XYZ + family name as those passports did not have surname/family name column.

They then asked to amend the NICOP card and we did it as per what they wanted and the new card showed the first name as ABC + family name and father's name as XYZ + family name

we then applied for a revised passport and when we received it , the first name was ABC, father's name as XYZ + family name and family name column again showing family name!!!

In my previous company i saw that all the employees had their names screwed up as their actual names consists of two names like Muhammad Ali or
Muhammad Aslam and in the passport Muhammad is shown as first name and Ali / Aslam is shown as surname.

Really those guys at the embassy/consulate don't know the difference between a family name and a name??

A screwed fxcxed up database by NADRA.

I would like to see the details in the passport in English + Urdu and not just English, this is Pakistani passport and not the passport of an English country.

Complain to the authorities man, this thread is not for your complaints on how they scre*ed your name...